Tube markings “Made in Germany” and “Made in W Germany”

[playittwice]

Just got a pair of 7643 tubes and one has markings “Made in Germany”, while the other one states “Made in W Germany. They have very close date codes, and both have Valvo origin made codes. (D)

Any ideas? Does it matter?

Free

 

[harman/kardon]

W is Western

 

[playittwice]

I understand that, but why not the same labeling on both?

 

[playittwice]

Date codes;

 

[Dswankey]

@ceylon

What say ye?

 

[ceylon]

you are right! D = valvo hamburg my man! same tube. interesting that BG5 and BG6 are dated so close
together.

 

[Dswankey]

^ What about why "Made in Germany" v "Made in W. Germany" ?

 

[playittwice]

^^^^^^this is the million dollar inquiry.

 

[Nautiker]

Was the 'Germany' tube being manufactured about the time Germany was reunited?

 

[ceylon]

Was the 'Germany' tube being manufactured about the time Germany was reunited?

oh no. these valvo E80CF tubes were made in either 73 or 63.
the difference in "made in ..." doesnt mean anything.
it does seem that a lot of east german tubes say "made in western germany."

 

[Sansuiman]

I'm thinking "Germany" was used interchangeably with "W(est) Germany". After all, was there any substantive export of anything made in East Germany (except to other Soviet Bloc countries, which were sort of their own self contained ecosystem) at that time?

Edit to add: East Germany was, officially, Deutsche Demokratische Republik, or DDR. German Democratic Republic (GDR) in English. More informally, it was referred to in English as East Germany, but I'm not sure how items made there and exported (if any such items were exported in quantity to non-Soviet markets at the time) would have been labeled. I'd further assume that items that may have found their way into non-Soviet countries as exports were probably mostly black or grey market, and so may have had their true country of origin concealed by being marked as having come form somewhere other than E. Germany.

I don't recall now with any certainty, but it seems like there were economic sanctions in place that prevented most Soviet Bloc countries from exporting and selling items in the US, and presumably other countries that had historically "strained" relations with the USSR.

We didn't start seeing merchandise in the US openly marked as being made in (former) Soviet Bloc countries until the early 90's by my recollection, when it was suddenly possible to find some items made in Poland, Bulgaria and Czechoslovakia as three that stick in my mind. Tubes factored heavily among these early export items of course, and in time, Russia became a major exporter of tubes as well. But it wasn't until after the fall of the wall and the USSR that they had regular access to export product to the US.

 

[ceylon]

I'm thinking "Germany" was used interchangeably with "W(est) Germany".

yes

After all, was there any substantive export of anything made in East Germany (except to other Soviet Bloc countries, which were sort of their own self contained ecosystem) at that time?

any mention of germany on tubes imported into the US means west germany, whether or not it was true. tubes werent labeled "eastern germany" or "east germany," especially east german tubes. europe did not have the same trade restrictions with DDR and soviet union that the US did, so some manufacturers beacme entirely rebrand-resell operations for certain tube types. as is the case with most siemens-labelled EL34 (siemens did not manufacture EL34), these here are RFT. sometimes they dont even bother with siemens lettering, logos and other such branding.

Edit to add: East Germany was, officially, Deutsche Demokratische Republik, or DDR. German Democratic Republic (GDR) in English. More informally, it was referred to in English as East Germany, but I'm not sure how items made there and exported (if any such items were exported in quantity to non-Soviet markets at the time) would have been labeled. I'd further assume that items that may have found their way into non-Soviet countries as exports were probably mostly black or grey market, and so may have had their true country of origin concealed by being marked as having come form somewhere other than E. Germany.

see above

I don't recall now with any certainty, but it seems like there were economic sanctions in place that prevented most Soviet Bloc countries from exporting and selling items in the US, and presumably other countries that had historically "strained" relations with the USSR.

yes, and of course those sanctions were regularly circumvented. plenty of soviet tubes were branded "JAN USA," "made in germany/west germany/western germany," etc.

We didn't start seeing merchandise in the US openly marked as being made in (former) Soviet Bloc countries until the early 90's by my recollection, when it was suddenly possible to find some items made in Poland, Bulgaria and Czechoslovakia as three that stick in my mind. Tubes factored heavily among these early export items of course, and in time, Russia became a major exporter of tubes as well. But it wasn't until after the fall of the wall and the USSR that they had regular access to export product to the US.

sure, but czechoslovakia was never part of the soviet union, and IIRC tesla tubes were exported directly to the US prior to german reunification and the dissoution of the soviet union. i believe this was the fase for EI yugoslavia as well.

 

[Dswankey]

A couple of years back some good info/thoughts with some of the regulars here on W. Germany as opposed to Germany

Thread 'Tube ID'

Jun 15, 2023

Is this a telefunkin?? Says made in Germany not W. Germany as all teles state. If not then who made it.

• nolasally
• Replies: 56
• Forum: Tube Audio

 

[ceylon]

A couple of years back some good info/thoughts with some of the regulars here on W. Germany as opposed to Germany

Thread 'Tube ID'

Jun 15, 2023

Is this a telefunkin?? Says made in Germany not W. Germany as all teles state. If not then who made it.

• nolasally
• Replies: 56
• Forum: Tube Audio

i ID'd the tube in question (siemens munich), but thats buried in a lot of chaos.

 

[playittwice]

Great info here! So….my takeaway from this is….the “Made in Germany” logo has less significance than the date codes, regarding where this tube was manufactured-Valvo plant in Germany.
So..relabeled Valvo tube (D code), for Amperex. Correct?

I received these tubes a couple weeks ago and just noticed this now. I thought it was strange to get two tubes from the same plant with close build dates and have different markings. I also want to be confident I got what I bought as advertised.

They sound and perform excellent BTW.

Pic it the tops; they both have the same markings, one is turned so it’s not as easy to depict.

 

[Dswankey]

...regarding where this tube was manufactured-Valvo plant in Germany.So..relabeled Valvo tube (D code), for Amperex. Correct?

Correct mostly

Amperex was Philips N. American brand name, my guess is if it was sold marketed in Europe it would have the Valvo logo on it.


^Edit to above

Amperex a US based company, was it's own entity before before being acquired by Philips in early 1950's.

As noted a few posts below they indeed did manufacture their own tubes however I based my original reply on the popular tubes we often discuss such as the 12Ax variants which were European/UK manufactured.


Just to clarify D denotes Hamburg Germany which was Valvo's manufacturing hub.

Here's some German tube code info, use the translate feature it works well

/ Tube Codes /Tube Museum Udo Radtke, Germany

Röhren-Codes in der Röhrensammlung / Tube Museum / Udo Radtke, Deutschland .

www.tubecollection.de

 

[ceylon]

Great info here! So….my takeaway from this is….the “Made in Germany” logo has less significance than the date codes,

correct, and sometimes its meaningless, or at least meaningless with regard to manufacturer. for example, even yugoslavian tubes were often labelled "made in germany." japanese tubes labelled "made in great britain." however, EI yugoslavia tubes RCA buys from siemens may say "made in germany" because RCA bought em from a german manufacturer (siemens, for example,. from whom RCA bought quite a few tubes); likewise, matsushita tubes could say "made in britain" because the rebrander bought them from mullard.

regarding where this tube was manufactured-Valvo plant in Germany.
So..relabeled Valvo tube (D code), for Amperex. Correct?

its a valvo. amperex bought it for resale. could be made for anyone. could have been sitting around when purchased.
most accurately stated, thats an "amperex-labelled valvo E80CF." an alternate wording would be "amperex-branded valvo E80CF."

I received these tubes a couple weeks ago and just noticed this now. I thought it was strange to get two tubes from the same plant with close build dates and have different markings. I also want to be confident I got what I bought as advertised.

i certaily understand that. sometimes miniscule details matter tremendously, and sometimes very notieable ones dont at all.

They sound and perform great BTW.

Pic it the tops; they both have the same markings, one is turned so it’s not as easy to depict.
View attachment 3704826

ah gotcha

 

[ceylon]

Correct mostly

Amperex was Philips N. American brand name,

not only that, amperex was a major US manufacturer of vauum tubes. philips was its parent company.

my guess is if it was sold marketed in Europe it would have the Valvo logo on it.

or philips miniwatt or ....

 

[69Bee]

Before the wall came down, it was West Germany and East Germany. After the wall came down, Germany was reunited and became FRG (Federal Republic of Germany).

 

[62caddy]

Yes, but that didn't occur until 1990- long after these tubes went out of production.

The important part is that the different markings doesn't change anything as far as the tube quality, specs etc.