Turntable Interconnects...

[sbparks]

Hello,

I have a question regarding the interconnects between my turntable and my receiver.

My turntable is a late 70's vintage Technics SL-Q3. I've always been dissatisfied with the short (about 3 feet), small diameter connections for the right and left channel.

I wonder if anyone has ever considered changing out the original wires for a beefier set of connections... At least a few feet longer so that an easier connection could be made to the amplifier?

Or even mount a set of female RCA connectors to the rear of the turntable so that any set length set of cables could be used betwenn turntable and amplifier.

Does anyone have any thoughts or experience with this idea?

Thanks.

 

[spartanmanor]

I am in the process of doing this on my thorens. Running new wire in the arm to new rca jacks on the back of the plenth then heavy cables. Using Cardas.

 

[hakaplan]

Hello,

I have a question regarding the interconnects between my turntable and my receiver.

My turntable is a late 70's vintage Technics SL-Q3. I've always been dissatisfied with the short (about 3 feet), small diameter connections for the right and left channel.

I wonder if anyone has ever considered changing out the original wires for a beefier set of connections... At least a few feet longer so that an easier connection could be made to the amplifier?

Or even mount a set of female RCA connectors to the rear of the turntable so that any set length set of cables could be used betwenn turntable and amplifier.

Does anyone have any thoughts or experience with this idea?

Thanks.

Magnetic phono cartridges are sensitive to capacitance. If the capacitance in the system is too high, sound quality can start to degrade. Every point in the system adds to the capacitance and that includes the interconnects. In general if they are longer than about three feet, sound quality can suffer. However, if you replace them with very low capacitance cables, you can probably get away with maybe 5 or 6 feet with no problems.

Here is a simple and inexpensive solution. Don't be fooled by the price or the fact that it says digital or video. They are very low capacitance and well shielded. These are used by many audiophiles over at vinyl asylum--people who are very particular about sound quality. I have used them myself and they are excellent.

http://starlink-dss.com/Component.htm

Buy a set, cut the connectors off one end (and to length) and solder them to the appropriate place inside the turntable. Sometimes people choose to wire in RCA jacks on the back of the turntable so they can simply plug in a connector. You can do that and just use the 6' cables as they come. But don't go any longer than that. The other way around the length issue is to use a preamp. The distance from the turntable to the preamp must be limited, but from the preamp to the amp or receiver can be any length, so you would just keep the preamp close to the turntable.

 

[rulerboyz]

Sbparks,

I have a Technics SL-D2 and I was also having problems with the interconnects. In fact the right RCA plug was developing an intermittent connection. So I had to replace them. I decided to take a single audio interconnect cable that I had in my cable bin and cut it to the same length as the original interconnects. It was 10 meters long, so I only used a bit of it from each end. I kept the rest of the cable so I can make more of them in the future.

I think the key is that you want to keep interconnects short, because you want to keep the capacitance of the cable as small as possible with phono interconnects. The capacitance goes up the longer you make the cable. I personally would rearrange my setup in order to allow the short length of interconnects be sufficient to reach the phono input jacks.

The actual interconnect I used was a freebee that some salesman threw in, one time when I bought speakers. They look like the following:

It says "Powerlink Genuine Sound Quality High Performance Audio Interconnect Cable". You can buy this same cable from Solen.ca and probably elsewhere. All you need is one cable and cut to the desired length from either end so that you end up with two different cables for the right and left. Here is a link:

http://www.solen.ca/

I had initally wanted to get Blue Jeans cable for my turntable interconnects, but then realized that I would like the price of these better (Free).

However, if you replace them with very low capacitance cables, you can probably get away with maybe 5 or 6 feet with no problems.

If you are willing to spend about $30 on these interconnects, consider getting Blue Jeans LC-1 Low Capacitance Cable. They are very low capacitance. They can cut them to the length you want, and you will be able to get away with making them slightly longer than the original cables.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/index.htm

 

[Fred Longworth]

With many DMM's (digital multimeters) you can measure capacitance quite easily.

This way you can compare cables with genuine accuracy. If a 10' cable using high-grade coax has equal to or less capacitance than from a 3' stock cable, I say go for it.

The suggestion, above, about video cables is a good one. Especially the YELLOW cable in the yellow/red/white combo cable usually has very low capacitance.

Best,

Fred Longworth

 

[hakaplan]

I feel kind of bad for not considering our sponsors here, so I'm putting in a plug for Zebra Cables. I checked their website and found the following cables, available in any length, usable if you already have RCA jacks wired into your turntable. These cables have extremely low capacitance are still a good deal less expensive than many other places and obviously of very high quality.

http://zebracables.com/1694.html

 

[Grainger49]

I have used a "low capacitance" Belden cable for years. The old number is 9259, now, I think it is 89259. It is 7pF/Ft. That is LOW. You can find a place that sells it by the foot.

 

[hakaplan]

I have used a "low capacitance" Belden cable for years. The old number is 9259, now, I think it is 89259. It is 7pF/Ft. That is LOW. You can find a place that sells it by the foot.

From what source did you find 7pF/ft?

I know about Belden 89259 and had considered making my own cables from it, but the capacitance value I found was different than yours:

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/pages/technicaldocs/89259tech.htm

Those specs were copied directly from Belden's website.

http://www.belden.com/pdfs/MasterCatalogPDF/PDFS_links to docs/12_Broadcast/12.43.pdf

Since the high quality prefab cables had the same capacitance, and since I'm cheap I chose the Petra, but those Zebras and Blue Jeans are mighty nice, too.

 

[Grainger49]

Belden publishes the specifications of their cable on the internte. 9259 used to be there. It is 7pF/Ft. At least that is what I remember. It also has 7 strand center conductor. That makes it very flexible.

Either 7pF or 17pF is about as low a capacitance you can find. Or was when I was doing the installtation back in 1992. Most others are considerably higher.

 

[hakaplan]

I looked up 9259. It's also 17. It's not a big deal--the only reason I brought this up is that I had already recommended cable that was 16 or 17pF/ft and you claimed this 9259 was even lower, and clearly it isn't.

 

[Grainger49]

I looked up 9259. It's also 17. It's not a big deal--the only reason I brought this up is that I had already recommended cable that was 16 or 17pF/ft and you claimed this 9259 was even lower, and clearly it isn't.

I was wrong. When I bought it back in the 90s some time it was the lowest I could find. Things have improved. But not my memory.

 

[avguytx]

I've thought about doing this to my JVC T/T as well and am wondering if anyone has any pictures of what they've done to make this happen. I hate to just take off blind and do it. I know there are small wires down the tonearm and they have to connect somewhere. My T/T has fairly large RCA's coming out of it...do they solder onto a main "board" somewhere inside? I guess I should just take it apart and see! lol How much of a benefit is there to going to something different short of getting better connectors on the ends versus the old crappy ones they always used? If it's a negligible difference, I may not mess with it. I know it depends on what else is down "the pike" as to the benefits added, too.

 

[hakaplan]

I've thought about doing this to my JVC T/T as well and am wondering if anyone has any pictures of what they've done to make this happen. I hate to just take off blind and do it. I know there are small wires down the tonearm and they have to connect somewhere. My T/T has fairly large RCA's coming out of it...do they solder onto a main "board" somewhere inside? I guess I should just take it apart and see! lol How much of a benefit is there to going to something different short of getting better connectors on the ends versus the old crappy ones they always used? If it's a negligible difference, I may not mess with it. I know it depends on what else is down "the pike" as to the benefits added, too.

Yes, there's a terminal block or pc board inside the turntable to which the interconnects are soldered. You don't have to mess with the tonearm wires. Just make sure you note which wire went where so you can reattach the new ones correctly. I think it makes a significant difference and is worth doing; I noticed more punch to the bass among other things. Open it up first to make sure you can identify where the surgery will take place. If you're unsure, take pictures of the insides of your table and post them here and we'll help you figure it out--but I think it will be obvious to you. You're not going to want to spend more than your QL-F4 is worth on cables, so buy the Petra and believe me you will be very satisfied with the end result. Keep in mind that if there's a ground wire bundled with your interconnects, you'll either have to separate it out of the bundle or remove it and solder in a new one.

 

[fdrennen]

Magnetic phono cartridges are sensitive to capacitance. If the capacitance in the system is too high, sound quality can start to degrade. Every point in the system adds to the capacitance and that includes the interconnects. In general if they are longer than about three feet, sound quality can suffer. However, if you replace them with very low capacitance cables, you can probably get away with maybe 5 or 6 feet with no problems.

Here is a simple and inexpensive solution. Don't be fooled by the price or the fact that it says digital or video. They are very low capacitance and well shielded. These are used by many audiophiles over at vinyl asylum--people who are very particular about sound quality. I have used them myself and they are excellent.

http://starlink-dss.com/Component.htm

Are you suggesting this paticular brand or are other digital cables lower in capacitance than the interconects usually used for phonos. I am using the same interconnects for my TT as My CD player, the manufacturers don't tell you about the capacitance of their cables.

 

[Mopic5]

fdrennen,
Howard's pick of Petras (formerly Music Boys) is widely considered the best bang for the buck for phono ICs. I have three sets in use and I'm thrilled with them. They've gotten great thread reviews across many audio sites.
I've sent a few sets over to Europe to some audio friends who have a hard time getting them at a decent price directly.
- Mario

 

[Fred Longworth]

Separate from the capacitance issue (lowest is best), there are issues of flexibility and plug geometry.

As a service person, I regularly see the consequences of extremely stiff cables with long, "glamour" plugs that grasp the RCA jacks with a "death grip." These include broken connections inside the amplifier where the jacks solder to the circuit board, and in a few cases the ground side of the jack is actually pulled off when the cable is removed.

So, I recommend gold-plated plugs that have a firm, but not extreme, grip on the RCA jacks. The barrel of the plug should not be more than 1-1/2" to minimize the "crowbar effect." The cable itself should be supple, since when equipment is pushed back on the shelf the cables will usually bend sharply.

Best,

Fred Longworth

 

[Brian4561]

About the capacitance . . .

I've been making my RCA cables frome Canare star-quad and making them just long enough to fit easily with little excess cable. The majority of my cables are between 18 and 24 inches long. I'm curious about their capacitance.

First, I assume I am checking capacitance between the shield and the conductor. Is that correct?

Second, what is a good number I'm looking for in a turntable interconnect?

 

[hakaplan]

I've been making my RCA cables frome Canare star-quad and making them just long enough to fit easily with little excess cable. The majority of my cables are between 18 and 24 inches long. I'm curious about their capacitance.

First, I assume I am checking capacitance between the shield and the conductor. Is that correct?

Second, what is a good number I'm looking for in a turntable interconnect?

Brian, I assume you're using one of these:

http://www.canare.com/index.cfm?objectid=B3995BAF-3048-7098-AF9FCBEF6DC30BEF

You can see that the nominal capacitance (shield to conductor) is in the range of 60pF or so per foot. That's high. For your short cables it's passable, but far from ideal. I had read about people using this cable and I had researched it when considering interconnects, but it's so much work to produce cables with mediocre specs. Their twisted pair microphone cable is better with values in the 20-25 range. But, the cables by Petra, Zebra or Blue Jeans have values of 16 or 17pF per foot. That is the lowest value I know of. I don't really see any logical reason to make your own with such affordable, excellent pre-made cables available, but if you have that desire, Belden probably has the best offerings, and that's what the Zebra and BJ use. I don't know what brand of cable Petra uses, but I'm very satisfied with theirs.

 

[dvdchance]

What function do I use on my multimeter? Is it a seperate capacitance test. I have a cheapie Actron CP7672, anyone know if this will measure capacitance?

 

[outlawmws]

What about Beldon 8451? What is it's capacitance? It is a twisted shielded pair, and I belive it to be Mic cable. I have a fair quantity, so if it's capacitance is low, I'd like to try making an interconnect for my TT's