• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Turntable Request, what’s the easiest to work on vintage table?

R

rkidLG

Member
Hello all,

I am in college majorly into audio. The produces part of my setup being my Martin Logan sl3s recapped and repaneled. I love vintage gear and am looking for an easy to fix turntable with readily available parts. I am into fixing stuff up and am learning how to from a local tech who is a friend. I have never enjoyed new turntables and find them to be uninspired and cheap. The nice ones are unattainable for me. This part of my setup has always stumbled me as I have ran into a lot of bad luck with vintage tables. Here are my requirements for this turntable that you might help me find.

1. Belt drive
The consensus is that belt is easier to fix. Would you agree? I also have found to enjoy belt more.
2. Something that is easy to work on and fix.
I’d like to completely recap whichever one I purchase, as well as service it completely.
3. An arm that is durable. Example, I had a vintage Rega planar 2 with the notorious arm that always needs a lot of work. I’d like to avoid a table like this.
4. Anti skating vs no anti skate. I understand that anti skate mechanisms become weaker over time due to many of them using magnets. How should I combat this issue? Do I need anti skate?
5. A table in which, whatever breaks can be fixable. I do not want to purchase a vintage table that if one mechanism breaks, I will need to move on from it.
6. A table known for reliability, similar to the technics sl1200 mk2 (this happens to be direct drive).
7. A turntable known to be of high quality, non entry level.
8. Budget preferably under 1,000 dollars, the less the better. As long as it meets other requirements.

Does a table like this exist for me? What would you all recommend? You have much more experience that I do. Something that comes to mind is the AR XA, however, I am slightly against this as I feel as if anti skate might be useful. I would love some insight so I can finally be happy with a turntable. The current market is very frustrating to me as the current new tables generally suck (in my opinion) and that there are many turntables that are quite challenging to fix up in the vintage market.

THANKS FOR ANY HELP !!
 
Register to hide this ad
The AR XA is the little table that could, it puts many a Thorens to shame eh.

More than one Audio rag writer has stated this little table was their first real taste of the high end. As for its capabilities they're endless when considering modifications, a real giant killer in disguise.

An example of a Morinified AR XA.

1C2490DF-702E-49E5-BDA1-085504606878.jpeg

As for its lack of anti-skate.....don't sweat the petty stuff pet the sweaty stuff.
 
If willing to consider DD you might want to check out the Kenwood KD-770D, should be able to find one within budget with plenty left over for a nice cartridge.

Screenshot_20230625-073816.png
 
Looks like a Lenco (Bogen) L75 fits the bill. Built like a tank. Geniusly simple construction. No plastic parts that break with age.

Once serviced (which is a straightforward job) they run forever as long there is juice in the outlet with the right frequency.

Lots of spare parts and upgrade parts available and a great user community over at Lencoheaven.

Tonearm better than its street rep once you chance the V-blocks in the knife edge bearing which is a half hour job that cost 20 bucks.

Only downside for someone who likes to recap: only one capacitor in this thing ;-).

Here's an audiophile "discovering" the L75 goodness:

www.stereophile.com

Gramophone Dreams #79: a Vintage Lenco L75 turntable & the PrimaLuna EVO 100 phono stage

My adoptive mother, Lily Mae, was a retired businesswoman and former fashion model turned stay-at-home mom and artist-painter with famously good taste in everything. She raised me to have good manners, an "active awareness of color and texture," and "an eye for form." She expected me to critique...
www.stereophile.com www.stereophile.com
 
I would offer the Pioneer 510A. I have one and if I could get it back running anyone can. Belt drives aren't necessarily more reliable. Also in vintage TTs, sometimes it is difficult to source the exact belt. Only issue with the 510A is that it is manual.
 
What I think of for vintage and belt drive is EMPIRE. Either the tables which are 208 based (298 and 398) or the later 598 tables.
They have powerful motors with lots of torque, they’re made to last a lifetime plus they look and sound great. NO antiskate on most of them but some were fitted with it. Tonearms work very well if in good shape. You can pick up nice examples for under your budget limit. - Get the nicest one you can find.

Another to check out are the Rek-O-Kut belt drives like the N33H. Those are also USA made, like Empire, and similar in performance and cost less than nice Empires too. Also built to last a lifetime! Either brand would be very easy to work on and either is a better table than the AR XA. I own and have fixed up all three brands; AR, Empire and Rek-O-Kut. Any can be modified and improved but the AR has a comparatively tiny, weak motor. It makes a difference in sound quality. Empire is my top pick of the three I mentioned.

My Empire 298:

IMG_2969.jpeg

…and my Empire 598:

IMG_2979.jpeg

…my ROK N33H:

IMG_2755.jpeg

..my AR XA:

IMG_7488.jpeg

Good luck, whatever your choice!

Duane
 
Last edited:
I have a modded AR-XA I love for its sound and simplicity. In fact, I sold my beautiful servo armed Denon DL57 to keep it as I felt its simplicity was a virtue over the Denon’s complex use of unobtainable parts. Mine has a Pioneer S tonearm shaft installed into the pivot so I can roll carts easily with standard 1/2” headshell mounts.
It’s as reliable as a rock and has had the pivot bearings and springs tweaked and sounds great. The tonearm is 100% manual so it needs to be lifted and removed from the record, but one gets used to that.
 
A Thorens or an AR would probably have to be up there for simplest by virtue of having almost nothing inside. Depends on the Thorens model of course but lots of them are simple AC motors, no electronics, just a rubber band for the drive mechanism and it sits on a sub-chassis that is mounted on springs. The AR doesn't even have an arm lift mechanism. Both use a proprietary headshell which is a little annoying, but modern reproductions exist for not-dumb money.

Lencos are pretty simple too, also just an AC motor and a drive wheel. Variable speed too which is nice, it just moves the wheel along a tapered shaft. No suspension. The arms usually need the V blocks replaced but those are available and not expensive.

broadcast tables are also pretty simple, but very chunky. Rek-O-Kut, Russco, etc, all big simple motors with an idler drive and a simple but very robust bearing. Those were all meant to run all day every day in a radio station so they are seriously industrial overkill. The arms were similarly robust but exactly what arm you get depends on who set it up.
 
Another vote for the AR-XA, however, the lack of an arm lift drives me nuts. Maybe a vintage Rega Planar…Mine had speed issue that I couldn’t get sorted.

Personally, I like the Fairchild 412. Extremely well built, simple, just add the arm of your choosing. Cons: massive, 33-1/3 only, low WAF.

29193290502_a441e2b485_o.jpg
 
Another that "can" be found within budget if patient as proven by another member here just recently scoring one for $750. These listed for $3495 when debuting in 1985, picked mine up almost 3yrs ago for $650, another three sold for around $850 in the ensuing 18 months.

Some are intimidated by this table, but really it's a breeze to set up and once done stays that way.

Well Tempered Lab Turntable
IMG_20240118_010415222.jpg
 
Harman Kardon T-55C, T-60 or T-65C.
Belt drive, floating suspension, end-of-record auto-lift & auto-stop, removable headshell, quartz lock speed control. Compatible with Grado unshielded cartridges (does not induce hum).
 
Meeting all of your requirements will be difficult. I believe you might have found the answer yourself to what I'd consider to be the most important requirements of all.

6. A table known for reliability, similar to the technics sl1200 mk2 (this happens to be direct drive).
7. A turntable known to be of high quality, non-entry level.
 
Last edited:
heyraz said:
Harman Kardon T-55C, T-60 or T-65C.
Belt drive, floating suspension, end-of-record auto-lift & auto-stop, removable headshell, quartz lock speed control. Compatible with Grado unshielded cartridges (does not induce hum).
Click to expand...
I'll disagree here, I have a T-45C and found it somewhat difficult to work on, and even more difficult to source parts. Initially mine started out unable to hold its speed, which I found to be a somewhat common issue. It then started throwing belts, I believe because the unobtanium motor bushings are worn out. HK actually had some sort of technical service bulletin on these as I recall, but the parts appear to no longer be available, so mine sits until I've exhausted all of my other projects.

I really like the build and form of the HK's, but after owning one and diving into repairs I wouldn't recommend for someone looking for something reliable and easy to maintain/repair.
 
Nice to see a young person with your attitude, right on. With vintage a large part of ownership is opportunity, followed by incentive to invest the necessary restoration effort. I'll give you an example, if you care to read all the way through this...

A relation gave me a Sony PS-X4, a 70's era semi auto DD model. At the time I had just bought a brand new BD TT from a well known brand; far from inexpensive, in fact well above your budget. Meanwhile the Sony's speed regulation no longer worked, arm return was defunct, and the strobe barely worked. Initially I just stowed it away; I had never attempted a restore, and besides I already had the brand new BD.

Flash forward a couple years I'm bored and I think for fun I should try and restore that Sony. Downloaded the service manual as a first step. From what I read replacing caps is generally a must do. Service manual had a list of all the caps, so I ordered all the electrolytic ones for about 25$ total. Never had replaced a cap before. But got out my trusty soldering iron and off I went. (PS, solder wick is a must have). Wasn't that difficult actually. Afterwards speed is working, and so it the strobe! As far as the arm mechanism so many springs, cogs, levers and pawls, no way do I want to dissassemble all that! I just sprayed isopropyl alcohol around and the hardened grease all melted away. I then sprayed some fresh moly lube that I got from the automotive section of a local hw store. Auto return starts working fine. So I started using it, what a revelation! Some takeaways:

1) Speed regulation in 70's era DD's by then they had perfected the tech. In this respect put my fancy new BD to shame.
2) After so many years yes they mostly exhibit a variey of issues, but the fixes can be less complex then you might fear.
3) Once you've experienced a good quality DD, you will likely become hooked.
4) Dont think its beyond your capabilities, lots of help available on line

The Sony is now with a good friend who really wanted to get into vinyl and was feeling a bit overwhelmed so I gave it to him, he loves it. The BD is gone, and has been replaced with a superb Denon DD. That Sony was a great intro to the wonderful world of quartz lock DD's. Kenwood, JVC, and others also made some great DD TT's back in the day.

Good luck with your journey!
 
Last edited:
personally I'm somewhat allergic to electronics in turntables. I admit this is probably unreasonable but its just not my thing. Then again I'm not huge on solid state electronics or circuit boards either. I can work on it, I just find no joy in the process. I enjoy mechanical things though, probably why I own a half dozen record changers.
 
Based on all of your criteria I agree the Pioneer PL-12D or PL-41 would be good options. Fully manual, belt drive with an AC motor.

You could probably find a Thorens TD-160 in your budget but if anything fails replacement parts are becoming scarce and pricey.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom