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U-Turn Pluto Phono Preamp

Teej

Teej

Active Member
There is no thread for this yet, and I wanna talk about it.

I initiated a return today with Amazon for the U-Turn Pluto preamp I've had for nearly three weeks.

My first preamp experience in this price range was the Schiit mani which I picked up just last month. I tried it out on my living room rig (Teac TN-300), and the sound improvement was immediate and noticeable. Even my wife remarked. I knew right away I'd be investing in a second preamp, so I moved the Mani out to the man cave where I do most of my listening and, based on all the stellar reviews and tech specs, opted for the U-Turn Pluto. I mean, it beat out the Mani in a blind test curated by Michael Fremer himself, so if anything it should sound even better, right?

The moment I heard it (on the same Teac TN-300 I used to try out the Mani), I knew it was not the same. It sounded as it has with every record I've put through it: veiled, echoey, a jumbled mess in the mid-range and glassy in the high-end. I dismissed it at first, but last night I gave it some serious listening, pushing the volume up beyond where I should having a sleeping baby in the house and all, and repeatedly switching between the Pluto and the Teac built-in. It wasn't even close. While the bass did sound a little better through the Pluto, overall, the damage it was doing to the mid-range was too much to bear.

So I started the return. I mail it back to Amazon tomorrow, and I'm running with the Teac built-in for now. I've already ordered a second Schiit Mani as I know for sure that works beautifully on the Teac. I'm not happy about all this as I love the idea of U-Turn as a company and even now, if the Teac gives out, I will probably end up buying an Orbit. But the Pluto is weak sauce.

Now, after all my research and mountains of positive reviews I've read, my question is this: am I the only person on Earth who doesn't like the U-Turn Pluto? Or did I get a defective one? Is anyone else with preamps in this price range not dazzled by the Pluto?

I hate having to return stuff.
 
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Sorry about your troubles but your Pluto was defective or there was some weird incompatibility.

I have a Pluto. I didn't compare it to the Mani but several listeners did over on Fremer's blog. The general consensus was that they sound pretty similar with the Mani having slightly better bass and the Pluto having better midrange. Obviously these things are very subjective and based on what I heard, those were my assessments but it you compared them on different days, nobody could tell a difference.

http://www.analogplanet.com/content...-mani-which-sounds-better#p4iQlUWftEg0ei8B.97

Results are on a different page and don't read the comments before listening to the files.
 
@Teej I bought an orbit custom not too long ago, I but built my own tube preamp. I ordered it with the acrylic platter, cork mat and Ortofon OM 5E cartridge. Its very quiet. Really the only thing I dont like are the dust cover hinges, just plastic that bends in the middle. I also contacted them about record weights. I was told any weight up to one pound is fine. And the weight must be low profile to clear the dust cover top. I found two at a reasonable price. One is made by Sleeve City at one pound. The other i found on amazon and one side of the weight has a built in 45 adapter, also at one pound. U turn did not recommend a record clamp since the spindle can get lifted off of the table if used.
 
cratz2 said:
Sorry about your troubles but your Pluto was defective or there was some weird incompatibility.

http://www.analogplanet.com/content...-mani-which-sounds-better#p4iQlUWftEg0ei8B.97

Results are on a different page and don't read the comments before listening to the files.
Click to expand...

That article is the reason I bought a Pluto. I never did get to listen to those files as they were some weird format, but I did do the next better thing and buy both pre-amps. I was also thinking there may be a weird incompatibility somewhere, but then I have nothing exotic in that rig at all, so why would I be the only one who takes issue with it? And if it is a defective unit which seems more and more to be the case, that also makes me not want it because who's to say the replacement won't be defective?

I really wish someone else could hear what I'm hearing and say, "Oh, no, it's not supposed to sound like that" and flip a switch and then it sounds perfect, but it doesn't have any switches. Not one. Just a friendly little light that say, "Please, mister, don't return me!" And I'm like, "NO! You suck! Get out!" and now I feel bad for yelling at it.

But yeah, maybe it's a defective one.
 
I think if thousands of folks were hearing what you heard, we would most likely know about it.

I'd imagine both products have very similar rates of failure as well.
 
cratz2 said:
I think if thousands of folks were hearing what you heard, we would most likely know about it.

I'd imagine both products have very similar rates of failure as well.
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I agree on both counts which is why I was so surprised at all of this in the first place.

I gave the Pluto one last head-to-head test listen against the Teac onboard, this time with my wife in earshot. Played through the Pluto second. She said it sounded "weird, like its under water." It is now boxed up with a UPS label on it.

Meanwhile I ordered another Mani from Schiit a little after 10am. At 10:49am I got a shipping notification with tracking. It arrives on Saturday. Not looking back.
 
I wonder what would have happened if you had contacted Pluto directly with your concerns?:idea:


(Oops! Excuse me, I meant U-Turn!) :oops:
 
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I have the Mani and had considered the Pluto but that "one" review wasn't enough to sway me.

My experience with the great sounding Modi MB DAC told me to stick with the same Schiit.
 
John James said:
I wonder what would have happened if you had contacted Pluto directly with your concerns?:idea:


(Oops! Excuse me, I meant U-Turn!) :oops:
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You're right - that's on me. I've heard good things about the service from U-Turn, but I got emotional getting so close to the return deadline with Amazon. Plus I had already ordered the second Mani. I was busy chasing a fast-crawling 1-year old around the house for most of this month, so I never sat down and gave the Pluto the attention I should have in those first few days which would have given me ample time to explore the service route. Next time I will try to be more expeditious in my rehearsal of new equipment.

Then again, it's also a matter of peace of mind. Electronics, especially those with no moving parts, that don't do their job perfectly the first time give me an ulcer. I worked for a few years in retail electronics sales with a small local firm here in New Orleans, and since then I am extremely leery of those brands that gave us problems such as floor models we had to swap out more frequently than others and brands that were always getting returned (to this day I refuse to buy a Samsung anything). Generally well-rated and popular brands were constantly coming back or having to get swapped out on the floor (this is a whole other post); so when it comes to quality and performance, I prefer a hands-on experience to Amazon reviews or Consumer Reports. And in this case, it's Schiit 1, U-Turn 0.

Despite all this, I still plan on owning an Orbit someday if and when either of my TT's goes out.
 
cratz2 said:
Sorry about your troubles but your Pluto was defective or there was some weird incompatibility.

I have a Pluto. I didn't compare it to the Mani but several listeners did over on Fremer's blog. The general consensus was that they sound pretty similar with the Mani having slightly better bass and the Pluto having better midrange. Obviously these things are very subjective and based on what I heard, those were my assessments but it you compared them on different days, nobody could tell a difference.

http://www.analogplanet.com/content...-mani-which-sounds-better#p4iQlUWftEg0ei8B.97

Results are on a different page and don't read the comments before listening to the files.
Click to expand...
That survey has several points of concern to me. One, an Onkyo direct drive turntable. Two, there's no accounting for what kind of synergy it and the cart have with either preamp. Three, there's no way of knowing what responders were playing the two files on. Crap computer speakers? ear bud headphones? One file may or may not sound better with a crappy computer sound card/speakers/whatever. It can simply become a popularity contest. The brand with the most fans wins. I have fan fatigue after years of Emotiva fanboy posting all over the internet!

I'd rather trust someone who is an audio veteran and who knows what his biases are, and states them. Many such owner comparisons show they are both good. That said, I just ordered the Mani after considering both. I figured I couldn't lose with either, but having the option of MC down the road worked for me. I could have saved the extra coin just as easily.
 
Oh, I don't disagree at all. But a blind-ish, unbiased comparison is better than nothing.

I preferred the B to the A but I didn't know which was which and already owned the Orbit.

A lot of biases go into those comparisons. Even if you listened through your big system (which I did) if your system was already mid-heavy, one could easily prefer the A. One person might latch onto the A as having plodding bass but another listener with a bass shy system may prefer A because of the extra bass.

And what differences there were there, were pretty slight. Again, I definitely don't think I could tell which was which if compared on two different days, plus the song he used isn't my type of music and overall, neither really sounded great or even good in my opinion.

In real life, doing an A/B with the ART preamp, the Orbit definitely sounds better and that was all I needed.

Differences between two fairly comparable cartridges have almost always been bigger in my experience.

Different people hear and prefer different things though. I think the Ortofon Red is a very decent cartridge and one of the best values at its price point but I think it's probably the one modetn cartridge I've read the most negative comments on. Lots of folks dismiss the AT95e as all but garbage and I think it's another great value cartridge at its price point.
 
Sorry to hear the Pluto didn't do it for you. But, the only way to know how something is going to sound to YOU, in YOUR room, with YOUR gear, is to try it. And, sometimes, it just doesn't work well for you. Hazards of the trade. But, that's exactly WHY there are do many different components from so many different manufacturers. Everyone trying for a little bit of market share, and at any given price point, most stuff, whether it's pre's, processors, speakers, or what have you, sounds more similar than different. Sometimes you get lucky, and one particular piece works much better than it should with the rest of your gear. THAT'S what it's all about. If it was EASY to get really good sound, we'd all be listening to the same things.
 
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I did not see this point addressed, so its worth bringing up. How long did you run the Pluto before you made this decision? I know its a point of contention, but components go through break in curves, and sometimes its more painful with some than others. I personally don't believe most break in curves are very long, but usually in the range of 20 to 50 hours of play time. This is especially true with phono stages as they are dealing with low voltage signals.

If you plugged the Pluto in and played it for a couple of evenings for a few hours, I suspect you are not hearing the Pluto at its full potential. You may very well like the Mani better in the end, but it needs to be a fair comparison.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
Mister Pig said:
I did not see this point addressed, so its worth bringing up. How long did you run the Pluto before you made this decision? I know its a point of contention, but components go through break in curves, and sometimes its more painful with some than others.
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From the OP's description, this sounds more like "broken" than "break-in". If it were me, I'd be trying to exchange it for another of another Pluto, to eliminate the possibility of a manufacturing defect. If the replacement sounds the same, then at least the listener knows the sound is much less likely to be a result of a technical problem.
 
The Mani arrived Saturday as promised during my son's 1st birthday party. Whole family was there. After cake and presents, I went ahead and hooked it up and spun my go-to test record: Radiohead "Kid A" track 1 "Everything in its Right Place." It sounded perfect. PERFECT. This was a huge relief as I'd been having mixed feeling about my living room rig since the day I hooked up the Pluto. But now the pride is back!

As for "breaking in" the Pluto, I listened to about a dozen full albums on it (The ones I remember are Portishead "Third," Miles Davis "Miles Ahead," a couple by Dave Brubeck, Grandaddy's "The Sophtware Slump," Neutral Milk Hotel's "On Avery Island," and a bunch of Radiohead), followed by a number of individual tracks and select moments from a half dozen or so other albums when I was doing testing. The sound never improved in that time - I only noticed more and more that something wasn't right. Album after album was echoey, tinny, and all the individual sounds in the mid-range seemed to bleed together in a cacophonous mess.

The Teac is pushing an AT95 needle with what should be less than 100 hours on it. While all this was going on I was researching a good replacement needle, but now that the Mani is here, that has all stopped. Equilibrium has been achieved. Everything sounds wonderful.

To U-Turn's benefit, I really do think I got a defective unit. I've addressed why I didn't go the service route in post #9 above. I maintain the belief that U-Turn is a solid American company, and I continue to want an Orbit turntable.
 
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