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Unfair Cartridge Reviews and the true nature of break-In time

TunerLanding

TunerLanding

Active Member
I’m a bit of a mid level cartridge collector and I’ve noticed that reviews on them don’t consider the usage it takes for a cartridge/stylus to reach full expression. In fact I usually find that the review weaknesses are cured by being broken in. My mp110 has great fast bass my grado red has great separation and my ortofon blue has a great full sound. I’d love to hear your cartridge blossoming stories
 
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I've felt that cartridges 'settle' over the first number of hours, although I'm not sure they really do. Is the cartridge suspension changing? Is the diamond changing in those first hours? Maybe, or I might just be getting used to the sound of that particular cartridge.

I have come to realize that as I gain experience in the hobby, my opinions evolve and I don't trust my 'listening memory'. Perhaps I absolutely loved a particular cartridge that hasn't been in rotation for the past year or two, and now when I install it I hear it differently. Or install it in a different arm on a different table and it surprises me somehow.

In fact, I'm sure I could search for my own postings from just a few years ago and find plenty that I would disagree with now. For example, at one point I was utterly enamored of the Shure SC35C, a heavy-tracking conical cartridge that cost about $35. It was easy to use and produced stellar bass on rock and roll tracks when used on a DD turntable I owned. I raved about it on the forums. I later installed it on a different turntable and it was just an average-sounding cartridge to my ear.

It's all about hobbyists gaining experience and bouncing opinions off of each other. Nothing wrong with any of it but I've learned to take any particular opinion, including my own, with a grain of salt.
 
A thousand hours at one time was when you started looking for a replacement stylus assembly. Whats changed accept for the fact we keep our Lp's cleaner now days.

Next they will be saying a 10% change in humidity or a 5 degree change in temperature effects the sound of our speakers and cartridges, when its our ears being effected and not our systems.
 
I experienced significant break in improvement with my Nagoaka MP11 cartridge, Pedesesor to the MP110.

I had been listening to CD's and FM for about 20 years prior to going back to LP's and was initially shocked at the poor quality 2 dimensional sound of the turntable. My first thought was if this is how LP's sound, I want no part of it. Both FM and CD's sounded so much better.

However, after about 10 hrs it started to open up, sounding OK, by the 30 hrs mark the difference was like night and day, it had improved that much. By perhaps 50 - 100 hrs it sounded WAY better then it has any right too. One LP I played produced one of the best examples of imaging I had ever heard, Not bad for a $100 cartridge. Which is why I believe Nagoaka makes one of the best cartridges anywhere near it's price. Now I can fully justify listening to LP's when I'm in the mood.

But the convience offered by my Spotify Premium subscription seems to win out lately. I haven't done any A/B comparison with either CD's or LP's, But I find the overall sound quality to be quite good when set to the highest definition. I found done correctly with the right system Streamed music, FM radio, Turntables, and Cassette tapes can all produce superb results.
 
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It amuses me when I hear people say they found the Ortofon 2M Bronze to be bass-shy. I wonder how many of them actually listened for the 40-50+ hours that it takes for the suspension to bed-in properly? Until then, mine was mostly thin and tinny, with occasional glimpses of greatness, some consistently inconsistent genuine crap, and a lot of disappointingly mediocre sound. I expected this, after breaking in two Blue styli previously. When it finally settled in, it delivered the performance I was hoping for, including plenty of very solid bass.

It was a big enough difference in sound quality that I am not sure I can believe anyone who says that THEY did not hear it, and that break-in is BS.....
 
My take is they I've rarely seen a cart or stylus that needs more than maybe 50 hours of use before you know if it's right for you.

Most cartridges sound a bit fuller in the lower mids, upper bass and bass range and sometimes getting that balance right, really wakes things up.

I would never know if a cartridge goes from bad to outstanding after 1,000 hours because I'm not the type of listener that will suffer through hundreds of bad hours of listening. I'm not sure why any reasonable person that.

Maybe different compliances on different arms need longer periods to be fully fleshed out but for me, I know within 10 hours if I like a cartridge or stylus and I don't notice much change from hour 50 to hour 500.
 
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cratz2 said:
My take is they give rarely seen a cart or stylus that needs more than maybe 50 hours of use before you know if it's right for you.

Most cartridges sound a bit fuller in the lower mids, upper bass and bass range and sometimes getting that balance right, really wakes things up.

I would never know if a cartridge goes from bad to outstanding after 1,000 hours because I'm not the type of listener that will suffer through hundreds of bad hours of listening. I'm not sure why any reasonable person that.

Maybe different compliances on different arms need longer periods to be fully fleshed out but for me, I know within 10 hours if I like a cartridge or stylus and I don't notice much change from hour 50 to hour 500.
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I'm thinking that 1000hr is a misquote, stylus are at the end of their life at that point
 
Marks comment was fair and didn’t warrant a calling out. My impression is that yes people are aware that carts need a break in, but the process of reviewing several cartridges in a side by side comparison becomes impossible in ideal terms. What’s interesting is that I don’t have a favourite cartridge, they are all just different. I do however believe the matchup between cartridge and Deck/tonearm is essential to play to their strengths. (My Grado is on a light micro seiki and my nagaoka is on a heavier thorens) how do you match your system with an appropriate cartridge?
 
TunerLanding said:
how do you match your system with an appropriate cartridge?
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Resonance calculation? Cartridge compliance and arm mass to hit a resonance frequency between 7 and 12 Hz, with 10 Hz being the target. They have charts that make the whole process pretty straightforward.

Although this is interesting. You think calling someone you don't know who happens to review a "dummy" ...ie stupid... is acceptable? Especially when the statement is not backed up with any facts, evidence, or back story? Huh, that's quite informative.
 
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Mister Pig said:
Resonance calculation? Cartridge compliance and arm mass to hit a resonance frequency between 7 and 12 Hz, with 10 Hz being the target. They have charts that make the whole process pretty straightforward.

Although this is interesting. You think calling someone you don't know who happens to review a "dummy" ...ie stupid... is acceptable? Especially when the statement is not backed up with any facts, evidence, or back story? Huh, that's quite informative.
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You obviously know a lot about this subject and I’ve bantered with you before. I think cartridge reviewers must be audiophiles and so I take their interpretations seriously. Break in Time makes the whole thing a bit complicated but there’s no place for absolutes here. What cartridge have you loved the longest everyone?
 
TunerLanding said:
You obviously know a lot about this subject and I’ve bantered with you before. I think cartridge reviewers must be audiophiles and so I take their interpretations seriously. Break in Time makes the whole thing a bit complicated but there’s no place for absolutes here. What cartridge have you loved the longest everyone?
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Never take a cartridge review as gospel. There are too many factors in an analog system that are different from owner to owner to make a review ironclad. I would think of the review more as an experience, with the writer telling you what their observations were given the context of their system. If you cannot match turntable, tone arm, phono stage, phono cable, then the downstream electronics it plays through then you will never hear it exactly as the writer/listener has, and at best you can hope for is an approximation.

Cartridge I have enjoyed the longest is the ZYX 4D as I have owned it since new in 2012. The oldest cartridge I currently enjoy is an Ikeda 9 Kawami, which was produced in the late 1970's. While I have not owned it terribly long I did acquire a Transfiguration Audio Proteus that is a remarkable cartridge in many ways, and one I plan to keep as long as I can get it serviced.
 
I’ve never had a stylus lie about its character from the first needle drop. After 5 hours of play, I’ve never had a stylus change much at all. Within the first 5 hours, yes, I’ve heard some slight changes.

I change cartridges and styli often. I find that the brain has to do more adjusting than anything else. Just like listening to a rock concert; very loud at first, but you get used to it. When it’s over, you have to adjust to the low noise levels. Cartridges and styli are exactly like that; I can listen to a cart over several days, and it starts to sound really good. Until I change cartridges. Then I readily notice the previous cart is treble shy or bass shy, or has a suppressed midrange, or isn’t as dynamic or quick, or doesn’t resolve detail, or suppressed instruments are now more audible, etc.
 
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