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Upgrade path for DIY thrift find

caxton1476

New Member
Now, here is a curious thing.

Just when it seemed harder than ever to discover truly interesting hi-fi stuff at local thrift shops, I stumbled into something unique and fun and worth experimenting with.

Here's what I found.

A pair of unbranded, apparently bespoke speakers fabricated from 3/4" furniture-grade plywood, measuring 15.5" tall, 12" wide, 14" deep (that is, front baffle is 15.5"x12"). When I found them in the thrift shop, they were sitting on a shelf. After purchase, I learned they were originally bundled with a matching cabinet that had a couple of compartments, one of which was large enough to hold both speakers. The main compartment of the cabinet also apparently had a shelf with a functioning fan to exhaust heat, but no amplifier was in the cabinet itself. I REALLY want to know what was in there.

The drivers appear to be some kind of triaxial Utah unit from 1962, based on a number printed on the back. The model number is D-35 (I think), and the serial number is 328622. A few online sources suggest the last three digits indicate a production date of February 1962.

Driver dimensions:
Outside diameter: 8"
Bass cone: 7" (including pleated paper surround)
Midrange cone: 4.25"
Tweeter cone: 3"

The paper surrounds seem to be in terrific condition, which is pretty incredible.

As you can see from the photos, the speaker cabinet is a kind of ported design, with a wide port segregated from the main driver compartment by an internal divider.

Where's all this going?

I'd love to preserve as much of these as I can while bringing a few elements up to modern standards. By that I mean upgrading the insulation from ancient fiberglass batts, adding binding posts (note that the speakers originally were wired directly to the driver's own binding posts), and that's about it. Definitely not replacing that gorgeous grille cloth. Other thoughts: a bit of closed-cell or felt between the driver and the baffle, maybe some kind of seal around that removable back panel?DIY Speaker Back and Interior.jpegDIY Speaker Front and Driver.jpegDIY Speaker Back and Driver Back.jpeg

I used to do "respectful restorations" of vintage road bikes that integrated modern gear that was a functional upgrade to bikes that had good bones - e.g. adding better cables, better brake pads, replacing steel rims with alloy rims, etc. The soul of the bike was retained, but the ride experience was improved, as was its basic functionality. (Steel rims are utterly gorgeous when in perfect shape, and also a curse to maintain.)

That's what I want to do here. I want to hook these up to my Sansui AU-555a and play some old Decca record, probably jazz or country or folk, and hear what 1962 heard.

I welcome your suggestions.

BTW - my wife did a little internet sleuthing. These might have been fabricated for a B.C. Krause, who seems to be the founder of the very Iowa-centric convenience store chain called, to the great amusement of so many, Kum-and-Go. We're in Decorah, Iowa, so that tracks. I really wish I could have picked up the main cabinet for these, as well as (can you imagine?) the amp that it housed. Dynaco, maybe?
 
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As a full range speaker, no crossover is needed, hence direct wiring to the terminals. The only mod I can think of would be to turn them into an open baffle design. I did some experimenting years ago with some Coral Beta 8s I have, but haven't yet made the open baffles.
 
nice find

they are nice looking drivers, be a shame to put them back in the cabinets. @jheu02 's suggestion of open baffle seems about right. Build a baffle the same width as the original enclosures and set the OB's on top of them. The original enclosures could house some bass drivers

 
The open baffle suggestion is fascinating - thank you. I've never been in the same room as open baffle speakers, much less heard them, so that project might wait for some other opportunities. I know it's also a totally reversible project, too - I could fabricate the open baffle pair, install the drivers, then put them back in their original cabinets at any time.

As for what I'd like to do next, I really looking for ways to take the existing units up a notch by making incremental upgrades within their current form factor. I'm a novice in the hobby, really, so the upgrades should be within reach. I'd love advice on things like:
  • Quantity, type, and placement of damping material in the cabinet.
  • Type and placement of binding post components. (I lean toward this because I don't want to the speaker cable tugging at the driver directly. I can easily imagine ways to prevent that, with slack-creating loops, etc., but I think I'd prefer the convenience of being able to just disconnect the speakers at the units themselves whenever I want to swap them out for a different pair.)
  • Other basic upgrades that I may be overlooking through inexperience.
If anyone has insights on improvements like those, or if they can point me toward reliable videos or other resources around similar projects, that would be fantastic.

Think of it this way: I'm open to turning a classic derailleur road bike into a fixie, just not as my first step. I'd rather upgrade the heavy, steel, boat-anchor seat post to its lighter, modern equivalent first, as that would enhance the riding experience of the bike's original form without wildly changing its function.

n.b. - The open baffle notion really has me thinking, though. My cabinet making skills aren't top-shelf, but OB designs cut the joinery down to a minimum, which appeals. Plus, they just look cool. Plus the idea of repurposing the original cabinets as subs is also intriguing, but that seems like a much more advanced project?
 
Is the surrounds are in fact paper and not treated cloth, then that cabinet is far too small for that driver to produce much bass.

If they were treated cloth (i.e. floppy) then i might be OK as an acoustic suspension design, but the batting indicates they were not made for that purpose; if it were the cabinet would be completely filled with insulation.

Nothing wrong with insulation as batting. Many fine speakers used it.
 
If your idea of a great time is to buy a bunch of components and be disappointed with most of them and then draw erroneous conclusions about their quality in your completely faultless open baffle system, then OB will be perfect for you!

I don't know anything about those drivers but i do know that open baffle is how you get "color" out of a speaker. A box is how you flatten out the peaks.
The 2 approaches are traveling in opposite directions.

Which way do you want to go?
Solid engineering or audiophile nincompoopery?

"Audiophile nincompoopery?"

There is a long list of speaker designers that would disagree with you: Dahlquist, Linkwitz, Ritchie, Shaw, Deckert to name a few. I also disagree with you. The open baffle Clayton Shaw Caladans I have make great bass. There is more than one way to skin the proverbial cat when it comes to speaker design and building.
 
Here’sa close-up of the surrounds. Insights requested as to what the material actually is. Its texture looks and feels much more like a dollar bill, now that I’m examining it again.
 

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Looking closer at your photos. That speaker box has marks on it from the builder indicating it was not a manufactured product.

The baffle and port arrangement suggest to me that the original builder probably followed a plan or had a basic understanding of loudspeaker design theory, and probably took steps to get everything he could out of this driver.

Im not at all suggesting that you cant improve it. What im saying is it may not be a obvious or straightforward path to do so and the results may be dissapointing due to the (assumed) fact that the original builder already took this thing to 95% of its potential.

Utah speakers were a budget oriented speaker driver, i dont personally have any experience with this driver but i know that the university drivers i had which were similar sounded very good in a klipsch designed corner horn.

I think the 8" version of what i had is called the "Rebel" and if i were trying to get the most out of this driver knowing absolutely nothing about it, id start looking at back loaded horn designs.
 
The open baffle suggestion is fascinating - thank you. I've never been in the same room as open baffle speakers, much less heard them, so that project might wait for some other opportunities. I know it's also a totally reversible project, too - I could fabricate the open baffle pair, install the drivers, then put them back in their original cabinets at any time.
that's the idea, no animals will be harmed during the process
 
People figured out over 100 years ago that speakers sound better in a box.
they figured out that you get better bass in a box

the OP ain't gonna get much bass out of those 8" Utah's, a better use for them is in the mid-range, in open baffle
 
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Here’sa close-up of the surrounds. Insights requested as to what the material actually is. Its texture looks and feels much more like a dollar bill, now that I’m examining it again.

Looks like a cloth surround to me. Lots of woofers from the 50s and 60s used that type of surround. Re-doping the surrounds is a somewhat controversial subject. I've done it. Did it make an audible difference? :dunno:
 
looks like they were going for a sort-of acoustic labyrinth design, but the line doesn't appear long enough to work like one.

also usually those setups have some damping material along the path to absorb the highs. The total length of the thing is calculated to invert phase down bottom so the bass coming out of the port is in-phase with the bass coming off the cone itself, basically intended to add and give better low end response.
 
@caxton1476
There's a long open baffle thread you might be able to find some Idea's in that you would like. It is a lot to slog through, but there is some good info in it if your scrolling finger is healthy. :biggrin:
 
What a fascinating thread!

Regarding repurposing the drivers in an open-baffle design - I think that's a true rainy-day project, if I should happen into some materials that seem suited to that purpose. Interesting, but with zero experience with the form, probably not imminent.

Concerning upgrades to the current form factor, I'm going to pick up some terminal cups from someplace like Midwest Speaker and have a go at it. I'll also replace the crumbling, dusty fiberglass batts with something more durable, and I'll experiment with amounts, placement, and so on.

As for my goals, I'm not looking for anything specific - just a pair of speakers I can put in my little basement workspace and enjoy. If they're bass-light, that's fine. This is for background listening while I go about various projects, so it'll be fine.

Just a side note, here are the power sources available for this: Sansui 5000X, Sansui AU-555A, Realistic STA-2270, and Realistic STA-18. Given that these are likely to be very efficient, I'm inclined to try the STA-18. I never listen at high volume, anyway.
 
Regarding repurposing the drivers in an open-baffle design - I think that's a true rainy-day project..
I doubt very much that those drivers are suitable for open baffles.
If they're bass-light, that's fine. This is for background listening while I go about various projects, so it'll be fine.
If they're bass-light now they'll be extremely bass-light in an open baffle.
Just try them as they are and see what they're like. The cabinet looks like a straightforward ported design to me, though the tuning frequency looks like it will be quite high.
 
The drivers appear to be some kind of triaxial
Coaxial, 22nd week of 1966.

The tweeter really is a tweeter. Carefully, feel it, it will be rigidly mounted to the pole piece of the large cone and whizzer section.

There will be a likely drifting out of spec, capacitor under the magnet cover.

The moving assembly, and tweeter appear to be the same as in CJ8C Celesta. The stamped basket and magnet cover make it something else.

What numbers besides the 6 digit EIA code are stamped on the rim?
 
That's really helpful! Thank you!

I searched for a bit around the rim of the basket and didn't see any other numbers, but I haven't had time for a full inspection.

I do see what looks like a capacitor under the large cone, but it's hard to be sure. I'll give it a closer look ASAP.

As for opening up the magnet cover, I haven't tried that yet.

I should have mentioned - the spring-loaded integrated binding posts are choked with solder, to a greater or lesser degree. When I got them, they had clipped-off, fraying lengths of zip cord soldered into those posts; I removed the cord out without any trouble. I have desoldering braid and could probably extract the lingering solder without too much trouble.

Anyways, I'll take a closer look and the unit, detail by detail, get some fresh pics, etc. as soon as I can.
 
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