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Upgrading Valencia 846A crossovers

Just a further thought, based on your orientation.

Why not pick up a pair of loose N800F xovers on ebay, try different caps, listen, then change the inductors, listen, add hi frequency EQ, listen replace pot with autoformer, etc.

Keep the original crossover and wiring harness intact for the day you pass the speakers on.

Like many, you will probably end up with the crossover outside the cabinet for a while so you can work on it and evaluate changes.

This seems to me the way to figure out what is going on and learn a lot while maintaining the integrity of the classic 846A.
 
The biggest issue with systems using the 811 is: The 811 SHOULD NOT be considered an 800 Hz horn, in any sort of genuinely useable (as in sounds good) sense. Using it that low, is a train-wreck in terms of dispersion pattern problems, frequency response problems, raspiness/distortion, and so on...

IMHO, the biggest improvement that can be made, is to convert to a higher frequency crossover. Of those available, IMHO, the Z19 crossover (upgraded Model 19 crossover, 1200 Hz) stands out head-and-shoulders above the others, in terms of getting maximum performance out of the 811.

The other limitation, is that the cabinet dimensions limit the depth of the horn driver (the original driver is the 806, which has dismal HF performance compared to its larger-magnet brothers) This prevents using the classic 802 horn drivers, and such. IMHO, the way to go here, is to replace it with something like an Altec 902 (ceramic magnet) horn driver, or (IMHO much better value) something like a B&C DE250 or BMS horn driver. This fixes the lack of high-end "air" that all stock Valencias suffer from...

Do these two things, and you will have a remarkably good speaker system...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
Funny thing is, the posts above criticize the horn and crossover, but having worked on those (Z19 and legs and horn damping and foam) I could never get past the lousy bass extension of my 846Bs. That box is just too damn small for anything like deep bass. I wound up selling mine, although I guess I could have just used subs instead. Or Model 19 cabinets. So now I guess we've bashed everything but the actual drivers. :D

(But that's just me; I know a lot of people here say they don't crave deep bass.)
 
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Solid advice from Gordon there.

I'm doing 1200hz with a 12" 414 in a mini Onken and 500hz horn/802g. This is third order Butterworth staggered per Le Cleac'h's prescription for linear phase through the xover region.

Building the new crossovers now.

You really don't want to push the woofer or horn beyond where it is happy and Altec did plenty of both. 604s are one particularly egregious example.

I found that 416s are on a downward spiral after 1k and start getting objectionably grungy by 1500hz, so there are limits.

M19s probably are the best domestic Altec factory system but these Valencias ain't M19s. Do what ya can with what you got.
 
So Joe and Gordon, would you have most of the same conclusions about the B version of the Valencia?
 
Never owned a B, but as far as I am concerned, in the context of this discussion, they are the same thing.

The grill on the A is cooler though.

If you have a pair of either and like them, ignore any discussion to the contrary.

Gordon has more authority than I, since he is an actual Altec sectoral user. I just rag on them in forums.
 
Some say the 846B sounds better. I disagree after having both for a good number of years. With the B's I can hear the ports breathe at times and that never happened with the A's.

You can see the risers I built for mine. Sitting in the couch puts the centerline of the horn right at ear level for me.

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Thanks for all the informative and thoughtful replies.

My Scott 222C and 299B are analogous to the Altec 846A. I had NOS Valves rebuild both Scotts to bring them back up to snuff.

No mods other than biasing test points on top of chassis.

I enjoy the Scotts immensely the way they are. Some folks modify the circuit, take the tone controls out the circuit, put modern RCA jacks and 5-way speaker binding posts.

I plan to bring Valencias up to spec, build a new XO and otherwise keep them original.

I really do like the 222C and Valencia combination. Are they the best amps and speakers out there? No, but I love the way they sound.






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I just picked up my second set of Valencia's. The first set, I built new crossovers for with all new components following the same specs as stock. I added protection for the HF driver in the form of shelving. The original HF Drivers were upgraded with new drivers from GPA. The horn was damped using dynamat. All of this greatly improved the Vals.. The Valencias had strengths for sure and that Altec Magic was there in spades. But to me they were still less than ideal and I did end up selling them. I now have two sets of 604C's in my home. One with 620 Style cabinets and another pair with original 606 corner cabs. Both sets have GPA crossovers with added attenuators that were modified to work better with the 604. This new set of Valencias I just bought are going to be put to use for something they were more or less originally designed for (hence Voice Of the Theater name). I'm a 16mm Film collector and am in the process of building a 30' by 40' Pole barn to be used as a theater. The Valencia's are going to be the theater speakers. I already tried them out with a 16mm projector and a film fed into an HH Scott 299C that I restored. Guess what?.. for dialogue on a film the Altecs are perfect. The voice is crystal clear!! The horns really "Throw" the voice to the back of the theater. Optical tracks on film are not as wide in terms of frequency response either. I'm not going to mod the HF drivers on these for instance.. why would I want to hear more hiss. If you want Altecs that were designed for music, I suggest 604's or Model 19's
 
GordonW nailed it. Model 19 crossovers and 902 drivers on the horns will make a huge difference. The 902 drivers extend the range far above the 806 drivers and the Model 19 crossover does two important things, first it raises the crossover point to 1200Hz and second it flattens out the upper mid range hump and makes the response much smoother.

BillWojo
 
Sorry to revive an old thread - I hope someone will read this!

Joe Roberts said this in post #7: "I think the Renkus horns will bolt right up to an Altec cutout too."

Does anyone know if JRob is correct on this, and if so, which Renkus horns? SSH-800?

Thanks in advance,
Pete
 
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