Using Standard Alignment on a 1200
- Thread starter dumptruck
- Start date
Well, I tried a couple of expensive knives, a razor blade, and a drafting straightedge. I am now pretty sure that my gauge isn't off either! Definitely not by any significant amount.
The other cart I had tried was a technics knock-off, and it was off by the same amount so I assumed it wasn't the cart. Wrong, apparently. No luck with just twisting the pin boss so far.. it seems pretty stuck.
12ax7
Super Member
Yeah, I wouldn't horse on the shells too much. As mentioned before, there is a little slack in the mounting slots and you can twist the headshell a bit in either direction as you tighten the collar. I just make sure the overhang is correct and that the cartridge is squared in the shell. If the stylus looks even on the record surface, I quit worrying about it. Yours looked fine in the picture you posted.
markd51
Nyuk Nyuk
This "might" be somewhat better, but IMO still no cigar.
Any of these type of alignment methods will fall short. By saying falling short, none of these could ever get proper Zenith Angle correct.
Zenith Angle will be the alignment of Stylus-Cantilever in relation to the groove, and how the Stylus will properly ride in the groove, meaning the cut flats of the Stylus contacting either groove wall correctly. Just squaring the Cartridge in the Headshell is not good enough, if you're wishing to extract the best sound from "ANY" Cartridge-Arm combination.
Of course, with any Pivotal Arm, there will be slight plus/minus error as the Stylus moves away from the two null points, but you will then accurately know, that the Stylus is correctly positioned on the two null points for the given alignment geometry. With the Plastic Jig method, one isn't even accurately achieving at least this. it becomes a crap-shoot, where you "might" get lucky with accuracy. This is provided the Cantliever is dead straight on for one. And how accurately your eyes can square a cartridge, which it really can't. The body doesn't ride the groove, it is the Stylus.
The other alignment parameter that I know from experience can easily be skewed, due to a detachable headshell, is Azimuth Angle. There is always an amount of play, in which the Headshell itself can be twisted one way, or another during installation lockdown, and thus the Stylus is tilted-canted in relation to the groove.
I see only one correct tool, and that is a Mirror Arc Protractor. The Mirror, with is inherit quality of aiding correct Cantilever-Stylus Alignment to the Groove by parallax error is much more precise than even a non-mirrored type Arc Protractor, and as well, the Mirror is a good tool for even setting very accurate Azimuth Angle too.
In regards to Azimuth, one sights the front of Cartridge, and sees two Stylus', the actual Stylus itself, and the reflection of it in the Mirror. (Of course this could be done with any little piece of mirror placed on the Platter)
The best that I know of, is the MintLP Arc Protractor, from Yip in Hong Kong.
He does make a Technics specific Arc Protractor.
Yes, I have one, and while the cost was $100, the money spent I feel was worth every penny. All other alignment methods I tried, fell short, and not just by a small amount.
Yes, hard for somebody to shell out such money for a device, but if you see your Technics as being in your stable for a long time, wish to extract the very best performance from whatever Cartridge you're going to install on it, then without reservation, I see the MintLP Tractor the very best way to fly.
The device is easy to use, but a very lengthy process of back, and forth, considering the tic marks for grid are virtually microscopic in nature, as well as the hair thin Arc. it definitely requires the supplied Loupe to see the Grid, and then properly align Cantilever to the grid.
I spent almost two hours on my own table getting it right, but when I was done, the improvement in sound told me things were finally the way they were supposed to be, and felt assured that for the very first time, I had achieved a nuts on alignment.
Hope folks haven't minded this somewhat lengthy post of mine. Mark
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SA-708
Appalachian-American
I've never seen that offset on my Technics overhang gauge. I even line up the notch with the stylus point (side to side) to confirm that I have the cartridge square in the headshell, with good results (I visually double-check that the cart is centered, and the sound is A-OK). Perhaps my gauge came from a better production run.
I don't mind the length Mark, but if you read the thread up until yours, it isn't really on-topic. SA-708, you also didn't read the whole thread, although thanks for chiming in about your specific guage. It's sounding like they may be pretty well-spec'd after all. In my case (as mentioned above) the entire headshell's azimuth is off, so I still can't use the gauge.
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markd51
Nyuk Nyuk
Hello dumptruck,
I have read the entire thread a few times, and as well, looked at the pics.
While I may have sidetracked the thread somewhat, in response to another poster's thoughts, of a better Overhang Gauge, what I'm trying to say in a nutshell, is the Overhang Gauge, if was was hypothetically made by JPL Labs, is still going to be a faulty way to attain the best accurate alignment.
There can be other anomalies, and this might be what your encountering, something not right with possibly the headshell, and/or stock overhang gauge?
What I wonder, is why would they make the gauge, and then the notch is so far offset, and then the Stylus doesn't properly line up with it, without canting the Cartridge in the Headshell?
Sounds to me, that something isn't right somewhere? Even plastic molding should be better than this?
Yes, I've used gauges like this, but it was many, many years ago, with my first "serious" table, a Pioneer PL-51 DD, and Shure V-15 III Cartridge.
Back then in the 70's, I wasn't aware of anyone marketing a decent Protractor.
What amazes me, is that somebody hasn't yet come along with a simple Sight Line Protractor, that will utilize Stevenson Alignment Geometry. This would then be a good Tractor, that one could align a variety of older, vintage tables, as well as the Technics, that seems to utilize Stevenson Null Points.
As I understand it, and Hakaplan (Howard) I believe has mentioned this many times, the Technics Arm Null Geometry isn't precisely Stevenson Geometry, but very darn close, that Stevenson Null Points would be acceptable.
(Correct me somebody if I'm wrong?)
People like Mobile Fidelity, and Turntable Basics should have offered two models IMO, both Baerwald, and Stevenson.
I will say, that one may seem to find good sound, with whatever method, until another is tried, and only then, may one possibly hear the differences with regards to Cartridge alignment.
I wish I could be of further help, and I hope my posts, and comments have not seemed condescending to you, or others participating in this thread.
I only wanted to share some thoughts, and a little bit of knowledge.
Please keep us up to date, on what you find. Mark
hakaplan
Needs professional help
Mark, it's only within the past few years that AK has been breaking ground in bringing forth knowledge about vintage Japanese turntables. Prior to this it was just contemporary models plus Thorens and Dual and the occasional discussion of an SL-1200. So there was no awareness among dealers of a need to market or sell anything other than Baerwald. I think it's just a matter of time until it starts happening. We've seen it in styli. LPgear has started making and selling fancy styli for budget mddels like the AT95 and AT3472. JICO's popularity has grown and they are on the move. Hopefully other dealers will wake up.
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That was what I wondered, and was supposed to be the original topic of this thread. As you can see above, it turned out the gauge was not offset after all, and it would have been successful at revealing an issue with the headshell, had I believed it..
As for my particular cart setup, I think I've got it about right now by just using the extra play in the arm as suggested (plus I think the arm is a bit off in azimuth in the opposite direction). I will be resuming my usual method of borrowing my friend's test record, listening for any issues with headphones, and using some more precise methods if I think it's necessary at that point.
If anyone else would like to post in this thread from now on, let's keep it to finding out if the others that think they have offset/warped/etc gauges actually have headshells that are either off on azimuth (probably) or zenith (could happen). At least I'm curious about that.
markd51
Nyuk Nyuk
Dumptruck,
As Howard has advised more times than I can count to other forumites here, there is vinylengine, which has numerous protractors one can print up for free. I believe there is a Stevenson version there, and it would be interesting, what differences would be noted between the two?
And as for Azimuth, as I previously mention, the use of a small flat mirror, set on the Platter, and the Stylus gently cued onto it, and viewed from the front can be a simple aid, for visually checking Azimuth Angle. I've found this many years ago, with Arms with detachable headshells, that there is a bit of azimuth play, that one can ever so slightly loosen the locking collar of the headshell, adjust-twist headshell, and then re-tighten, then again, re-check azimuth. Mark
As Howard has advised more times than I can count to other forumites here, there is vinylengine, which has numerous protractors one can print up for free. I believe there is a Stevenson version there, and it would be interesting, what differences would be noted between the two?
And as for Azimuth, as I previously mention, the use of a small flat mirror, set on the Platter, and the Stylus gently cued onto it, and viewed from the front can be a simple aid, for visually checking Azimuth Angle. I've found this many years ago, with Arms with detachable headshells, that there is a bit of azimuth play, that one can ever so slightly loosen the locking collar of the headshell, adjust-twist headshell, and then re-tighten, then again, re-check azimuth. Mark
Mark, c'mon buddy. This is about the plastic gauge, and now also off-kilter technics headshells. Lots of great threads about proper alignment.