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Vintage amps and headphone jacks

tfarney

Active Member
This may be a dumb question, but I'm full of them, so here goes....

I know that the headphone geeks warn you off of using the headphone jack in most receivers because they are powered by cheap op amps and are not up to snuff. Is this true of the vintage stuff as well? Are any phone jacks powered by the main amps?

Tim
 
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I cannot comment regarding the technical apsects, but I do know some vintage amps have excellent headphone amps. The two that spring to mind are the Beomaster 3000-2 and the Leak Delta 70.

Conversely, I have checked out a few amps upon receiving through 'phones to make sure they were alive and have been profoundly disappointed. The headphone amp of my SA-6800 sucks- dry, no dynamics. But the minute I hooked it up to some Boston A40s- ah, sweet, sweet music.

It is all over the map, for sure.
 
Some vintage gear make good headphone amps. I frequently listen through headphones using Marantz 22xx receivers, and at this moment am listening via a 1060 amp. Can't complain! :music: :D

As with Phono stages, they used to use pretty good circuitry in some of the vintage gear, better than what you generally find today. The 1/4" jacks they used to use are inherently better than the modern mini-plugs, too, because of larger contact area. That said, not all vintage gear is equal in this regard; as ponderbear said, it's all over the map. In general, though, vintage tends to be better than new, PROVIDED the headphone jacks are in good shape and cleaned/DeOxited. I've found a number of headphone jacks in old gear to be pretty heavily oxidized, probably because the owner didn't use the jack, and over the years simple atmospheric exposure took its toll. Sometimes they have been loosened or damaged, probably from people bumping plugged-in headphone plug-ends.

Not to divert the thread, but I was thinking earlier today when plugging in my headphones, about the whole subject of headphone jacks. We pay a lot of attention to gold-plated RCA jacks, and there are fancy "audiophile' fuses and fuse holders, too ... but how much attention is paid to that headphone jack INSIDE, behind the faceplate? I'm wondering if one couldn't get/design/make a better-quality one, with gold plating, slightly larger and curved contact area, sturdy spring pressure, etc.... Would it make much difference? I don't know, but it may be a weak spot in some gear. I have noticed that the metal in the older vintage jacks is heavier than the flimsy, more easily-bent stuff used in many modern ones. Just another area where the cost-cutting bean counters have had their influence, making gear engineered to meet minimum standards rather than being over-engineered for longevity.
 
Some vintage gear make good headphone amps. I frequently listen through headphones using Marantz 22xx receivers, and at this moment am listening via a 1060 amp. Can't complain! :music: :D

As with Phono stages, they used to use pretty good circuitry in some of the vintage gear, better than what you generally find today. The 1/4" jacks they used to use are inherently better than the modern mini-plugs, too, because of larger contact area. That said, not all vintage gear is equal in this regard; as ponderbear said, it's all over the map. In general, though, vintage tends to be better than new, PROVIDED the headphone jacks are in good shape and cleaned/DeOxited. I've found a number of headphone jacks in old gear to be pretty heavily oxidized, probably because the owner didn't use the jack, and over the years simple atmospheric exposure took its toll. Sometimes they have been loosened or damaged, probably from people bumping plugged-in headphone plug-ends.

Not to divert the thread, but I was thinking earlier today when plugging in my headphones, about the whole subject of headphone jacks. We pay a lot of attention to gold-plated RCA jacks, and there are fancy "audiophile' fuses and fuse holders, too ... but how much attention is paid to that headphone jack INSIDE, behind the faceplate? I'm wondering if one couldn't get/design/make a better-quality one, with gold plating, slightly larger and curved contact area, sturdy spring pressure, etc.... Would it make much difference? I don't know, but it may be a weak spot in some gear. I have noticed that the metal in the older vintage jacks is heavier than the flimsy, more easily-bent stuff used in many modern ones. Just another area where the cost-cutting bean counters have had their influence, making gear engineered to meet minimum standards rather than being over-engineered for longevity.

I would certainly hope these feature better than average headphone jacks...

http://www.headphone.com/products/headphone-amps/the-desktop-line/

Given the price range they're in.

Tim
 
From what I understand (and from the schematics I've seen) the headphone output for a receiver/integrated is driven by the mains section with a resistor inline.

That said, I don't like driving headphones from my receiver. The headphones really reveal flaws in the amp section that speakers don't. I've had far better results just running the headphones straight off my computer, op-amp or no. That said, my equipment isn't nearly as good as what others use. Your mileage may vary.
 
No op-amps in a Fisher 400.

P1000562.jpg
 
I've heard several Sansui QUads that sounded really great. Used to listen to one years ago with a pair of Koss Quad phones, and it was by far the most spectacular thing I've heard on phones..
 
I've heard several Sansui QUads that sounded really great. Used to listen to one years ago with a pair of Koss Quad phones, and it was by far the most spectacular thing I've heard on phones..

It has been a long, long time since this headphone geek has heard the words "Koss" and "spectacular" used in the same sentence, though for many years a set of full-sized Koss were my main cans. Things must have weighed 10 lbs!

Tim
 
It has been a long, long time since this headphone geek has heard the words "Koss" and "spectacular" used in the same sentence, though for many years a set of full-sized Koss were my main cans. Things must have weighed 10 lbs!

Tim

Yep.. that's what these things were.. huge and heavy.. had two jacks for the quad.. for each of the two speakers in each ear... Koss sure isn't now what those were then.. that would habe been around 78 and 79...

Those phones rocked.. super clean and super loud.. very well balanced.. but I also attribute a lot of the sound to the Sansui they were plugged into..

That system is the whole reason I bought a uad a year or so ago... Hadn't been using my QR-6500 until just recently to listen to some Altecs on.. and now I remember why I liked it so much..
 
I listen to headphones almost exclusively. I have/had vintage 1970's integrated amps and receivers from HK, Onkyo, Marantz, Pioneer, Sansui, ect. and some are great and some NOT so great. I want a truly QUIET phono section, and some are much, much noisier than others.
 
It has been a long, long time since this headphone geek has heard the words "Koss" and "spectacular" used in the same sentence, though for many years a set of full-sized Koss were my main cans. Things must have weighed 10 lbs!

Tim
...and squeeze your head like a vice. At least my Pro-4As and PRO 4-Xs still do.

As great as they were in the day, headphone technology has come a long, long way since then.
 
...and squeeze your head like a vice. At least my Pro-4As and PRO 4-Xs still do.

As great as they were in the day, headphone technology has come a long, long way since then.

Yep. Today I listen to Senn 580s or Etymotics (for the gym). Both are lighter and better than the old Koss. The Etys are barely there, once you get used to that ear canal insertion thing. And they sound fabulous. Don't have the warmth of the 580s, but probably more detail.

Tim
 
All my Sylvania and Sansui gear the headphones are all off the main amp via a resistor, never looked at the lone Pioneer SX-680 though.
Also I've got a nice pair of Koss quad phones, with original instructions and storage case. Alas the fluid filled muffs have deflated over the years and they're not really wearable anymore. :(
 
From what I understand (and from the schematics I've seen) the headphone output for a receiver/integrated is driven by the mains section with a resistor inline.

That said, I don't like driving headphones from my receiver. The headphones really reveal flaws in the amp section that speakers don't. I've had far better results just running the headphones straight off my computer, op-amp or no. That said, my equipment isn't nearly as good as what others use. Your mileage may vary.

I find it really hard to believe that the sound of a computer driving the same headphones is better than a vintage amp/ receiver driving them.
 
When I was searching for material on my Sansui 2000X this link popped up...

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5681

The guy claims that the headphone jack is run from a resistor nest directly off of the output stage. It does sound really good with my headphones. :D

He also seems to be a coprophiliac... jeez...

Sounds promising. I suspect I have a few amps wired like this. In particular the Leak 70 sounds about the same through phones as through speakers... that is, nice and sweet.
 
Almost all receivers drive the phones off the main amp through a resistor network. I usually do much of my serious testing with a set of Koss ESP9b full range electrostatics and more an more time is spent using them for listening daily as they are hooked to my Sony STR6120 next to my bed. These are housed in the same unit as the Pro4/AA design so yes, are a bit head hugging. But they are also heavier and after some time can be uncomfortable. Lying on the pillow and letting them rest on it helps greatly. As for sound, I've only heard 1 or 2 other phones that as as good though each could be easier to have on my head.

The phones of course are driven off the speaker terminals so I need not use the jack and need power so I'm not listening ar the low end of the power range where most headphone users would be listening and into the area where the amp is generally not operating at its best.
 
All this talk about headphones (old audio-technia ATH-2), made me get mine out. Connected to Yamaha cr-800 via std jack. The don't sound to bad. Probably prefer listening to L40's that are connected to this receiver though (don;t have things on my head now pressure from cord).
 
All this talk about headphones (old audio-technia ATH-2), made me get mine out. They don't sound too bad. Probably prefer listening to L40's that are connected to this receiver though (don;t have things on my head now pressure from cord).
ATH-2? You need to either immediately sell them to me or come join us over at Head-Fi. Seek out the real planar-magnetic headphone nuts on the Orthodynamic Roundup thread, now in its third year.
 
It has been a long, long time since this headphone geek has heard the words "Koss" and "spectacular" used in the same sentence, though for many years a set of full-sized Koss were my main cans. Things must have weighed 10 lbs!

Tim

You might like the Koss "PortaPro" headphones. They're light, comfortable and they sound spectacular. Koss's lifetime "no questions asked" warranty is unbeatable.
 
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