Thanks, I'm pretty covered up in headphones, I have Senn 580s, Etymotic in-ear, and I just got upgrades for my iPod earbuds yesterday - Senn MX-450s. They sound great for earbuds.
Tim
Vintage amps and headphone jacks
- Thread starter tfarney
- Start date
Thanks, I'm pretty covered up in headphones, I have Senn 580s, Etymotic in-ear, and I just got upgrades for my iPod earbuds yesterday - Senn MX-450s. They sound great for earbuds.
Tim
I pour over schematics and every vintage receiver I've seen uses the main amp to drive the headphone jack.
I've posted at least one schematic excerpt already here showing the resistor leads and the jack.
On newer gear, many jacks are driven by a dedicated op-amp of varying quality.
I've posted at least one schematic excerpt already here showing the resistor leads and the jack.
On newer gear, many jacks are driven by a dedicated op-amp of varying quality.
"Is using the "main amp" to drive the headphones superior, as opposed to an op-amp ?"
In most cases, yes. For one, the impedance of the headphones will not matter for the vintage receiver while it can bog down an op-amp if too high or too low. The former case requires voltage while the latter requires current. A vintage receiver has plenty of both.
However, a headphone amp can be optimized just for headphones so theoritically might have some advantages. I've never tried one.
In most cases, yes. For one, the impedance of the headphones will not matter for the vintage receiver while it can bog down an op-amp if too high or too low. The former case requires voltage while the latter requires current. A vintage receiver has plenty of both.
However, a headphone amp can be optimized just for headphones so theoritically might have some advantages. I've never tried one.
Well I do use them occasionally, so I think I will hang on to them. I did check out the site you provided in your link. I wasn't quiet sure what to think or your reply till I examined the site and reread your post. OK I don't want the post not worth ... without pictures message, so I will attempt to attach a couple of pictures of these (plz accept my apologies for fuzzy picture). I am not sure when I got them likely late 70's early 80's and pretty sure I bought these new. Any idea what I may have paid for these the?
I decided to search to see what I could find about these, I found the operating instructions and the unused registration card.
the operating instructions read like the following;
"The ATH-2 is a high performance, lightweight widerange sterophone on which Audio_Technica has lavished its precision pickup technology. In this planar-wave dynamic system, the spiral voice coil itself form a flat diaphragm that moves the air directly. This new design, which applies physical principles to more closely achieve ideal sound, gives wonderfully accurate music reproduction. The ATH-2 stereo-phone increases your listening pleasure by offering you superb audio reproduction not found with ordinary speakers."
Also it gave instructions on how to use
Technical data per request
"ATH-2 Technical Data
Type: Planar-wave Dynamic
Matching impedance: 4~60 ohm
Output sound pressure level
(S.P.L. 1 kHz, 0dB = 0.0002(?something looks like a u?) Bar/mW): 98dB
Frequency range 20 ~ 20,000Hz
Total harmonic distortion(110dB S.P.L.): less than 0.8%
Maximum permissible input (500Hz, 1 min.): 1,000mW
Weight (not including plug and cord): 200 g
Cord: 2.5m low noise Y-type soft cord (with with 6.3 (something else like small o with line nearly vertical) EIAJ plug)
(These specification subject to change without notice for further improvements.)"
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Great! Thanks for the specs, we'll add them to our database.
I'm trying to talk any planar-magnetic speaker buffs I can find (Charivari, to pick an example entirely at random) to get something like this. Maggies for your head.
Thanks for the photos!
I should also point out, since it's relevant to this thread, that an isodynamic headphone, like a planar speaker, presents an essentially resistive load to the amp, allowing the amp to sound about as good as it's ever going to, and the coherence of the reproduced sound makes an isodynamic a good 'phone to use for sniffing out differences between amps.
mhardy6647
Lunatic Member
Electrostatics or electrets for your head are even better.
Stax Earspeakers, e.g.
Stax Earspeakers, e.g.
Oh, don't say that until you've heard a properly modded isodynamic. Near-stat highs with better-than-dynamic-type bass. I say that as the owner of three pro-bias Stax Lambdas, a mighty SR-X Mk 3 and an SR-30 electret job. I'm not saying an isodynamic is better, because there are other considerations, but it is competitive once its moving system has been properly damped.
Besides, you can't plug a Stax into an amp/receiver's headphone out.
One thing that hasn't been discussed is the use of one of the old headphone junction boxes to drive headphones directly from speaker outs, thus bypassing any possible mickeymouse op amps. I use an old Pioneer box, but Koss used to make one too. Headphone junction boxes were more common back when not every stereo component had a headphone jack.
Listening this way separates the hissers from the nonhissers, that's for sure, especially if you use a modern ultraefficient 'phone-- the Grado SR80 being a good example.
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SteveP
Active Member
I enjoy listening to headphones from preamplifiers that have headphone outputs. Because preamps can't use the 'resistor from the amp output' method to drive phones they need to have dedicated headphone amp sections. A couple that come to mind are the Sony TA-E7B and the Harman Kardon hk825. I've attached the relevant section from the hk825 service manual, showing the headphone amp schematic. Tuners with headphone outputs would also have headphone amp sections as well.
Steve.
Steve.
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redcoates7
still learning...
I'll have to check the schematic to see how it's driven, but my Kenwood KA-9100 sounds great driving headphones...my daily drivers (pun intended) are a set of Grado SR-60s
In evenings I often listen through headphones through one of my receivers upstairs. The Technics SA 700 sounds pretty good, though it has a buzz in the left channel that doesn't appear when running speakers (haven't found that one yet). Marantz 4300 is the one I really enjoy, not for any particular reason, just does a really nice job on jazz, sucks me right in.
My main system only has a headphone jack on the Sony CDP and I can really do without the sound from that, dry and uninteresting. It is from a variable output and that may have something to do with it, though I'm pretty sure that is an opamp set-up. At any rate, not needed...
My main system only has a headphone jack on the Sony CDP and I can really do without the sound from that, dry and uninteresting. It is from a variable output and that may have something to do with it, though I'm pretty sure that is an opamp set-up. At any rate, not needed...
SteveP,
Your headphone amp looks capacitor-coupled while many vintage amps have direct coupled amps (including the headphone jack.) You can play around with audiophile caps here if so inclined.
Some preamps like my McIntosh C24 and MX113 have a jack but you have to route the power amp output through the preamp to drive them. That does offer the chance to have a speaker selector switch on the preamp, a useful enough feature sometimes, but seems a compromise in theory.
Your headphone amp looks capacitor-coupled while many vintage amps have direct coupled amps (including the headphone jack.) You can play around with audiophile caps here if so inclined.
Some preamps like my McIntosh C24 and MX113 have a jack but you have to route the power amp output through the preamp to drive them. That does offer the chance to have a speaker selector switch on the preamp, a useful enough feature sometimes, but seems a compromise in theory.
Fedallah
Мне надо много кофе
As previously mentioned, you have the noise issue. Treble sounds 'edgy', bass isn't quite as good. That said, my receiver is nothing fantastic or well-remembered, and my computer is a high-end model, which may help some. I've had better experiences all round with my mid-'80s Luxman integrated. Unfortunately, I don't have access to it right now, and won't for some time... a shame.
Arkay
Lunatic Member
I've listened to computer sound through various receivers and amps a fair amount, since I listen with headphones for at least an hour --sometimes several-- almost every night, use headphones to check all my new purchases on the bench (with computer input, too)), etc... Seems to me that running computer sound through a GOOD vintage receiver or amp sounds better than running it straight from the computer. However, running it through a mediocre or unrestored vintage receiver can make it sound worse.
As for background noise, a properly recapped/restored/adjusted rcintage eceiver or amp will not have audible background noise at any tolerable listening level. IF it does, there is something not right with the gear. OR your power input is very noisy, and you need to improve it )dedicated line, filters, etc..). Of course, if the input (like an average cassette recording) has noise, then you'll hear that. Otherwise, an analog receiver/amp should sound as quiet as a modern digital one.
Also, I would assume the quality of the sound card in your computer would make a difference, but I have less experience with that, since I rarely change sound cards.
As for background noise, a properly recapped/restored/adjusted rcintage eceiver or amp will not have audible background noise at any tolerable listening level. IF it does, there is something not right with the gear. OR your power input is very noisy, and you need to improve it )dedicated line, filters, etc..). Of course, if the input (like an average cassette recording) has noise, then you'll hear that. Otherwise, an analog receiver/amp should sound as quiet as a modern digital one.
Also, I would assume the quality of the sound card in your computer would make a difference, but I have less experience with that, since I rarely change sound cards.
No op-amps in a Fisher 400.
Good looking Tube receiver, do you have the original protective cover too?