Vintage CD Players and their old outdated DACs

[sssboa]

Hi,

So I'm into vintage stuff: amps, receivers, turntables, cassette decks and such. But when it comes to playing CDs I have an old clunky DVD player with very reliable mechanism from which I send digital signal to an external DAC.

I was made to believe that quality of DAC decides about quality of sound from CD and the newer the DAC the better in general. Though external DACs are quite a new thing. So I wonder how the old CD players from 1980s or early 1990s sound through their analogue outputs fed from their outdated DACs. Nobody used external DACs in the 1980s. Unfortunately I was too poor back then to have a cd player

So how do those early cd players sound from their analogue outputs. They should be horrible, shouldn't they?

But heard a guy boasting about having the first Sony cd player and how good it sounds.

 

[transmaster]

They sound great. At the time circa 1990 the 1-bit Dual D/A converter was the cats meow. It reduced the error rate. The actual CD drive was built much better the they are presently. The weird thing about vintage disc players is they can be picky about playing CD-RW, CD-R's, mine were even picky about the brand of recordable CD I used. At the time I favored Fuji brand CD-R's. The very best were the Tascam CD machines.

 

[sssboa]

They sound great. At the time circa 1990 the 1-bit Dual D/A converter was the cats meow. It reduced the error rate. The actual CD drive was built much better the they are presently. The weird thing about vintage disc players is they can be picky about playing CD-RW, CD-R's, mine were even picky about the brand of recordable CD I used. At the time I favored Fuji brand CD-R's. The very best were the Tascam CD machines.

I have no doubt that the mechanisms were more reliable back then as nowadays they fail very soon, actually the more expensive the machine the sooner it fails, that's why I am using that simple old DVD for playin cds.

Now I am trying to buy something decent sounding without external DAC. I am thinking of Marantz CD5005. They are praised for sound but knocked for reliability of mechanism.

 

[Grenadeslio]

I have no doubt that the mechanisms were more reliable back then as nowadays they fail very soon, actually the more expensive the machine the sooner it fails, that's why I am using that simple old DVD for playin cds.

Now I am trying to buy something decent sounding without external DAC. I am thinking of Marantz CD5005. They are praised for sound but knocked for reliability of mechanism.

These all sold for $1000 or more, now can be had for around $80.

Have all three but haven't been able to get this one in silver, have 2 in black, great deck. Sony DVP NS900V


Another great machine that looks great with my vintage silver faced Kenwood gear. Sony DVP NS999ES


Another that I was able to snag in silver, keeps all my CD's dust free too. Sony DVP CX777ES This thing is huge, so make sure you really want one and have the acreage to place it on lol.

 

[transmaster]

The CD drives on these Sony in their day were considered the best and were used by other brands. Including JVC.

 

[jdurbin1]

and that you don't mind too much when it occasionally starts cutting deep ruinous cresent-shaped divots in your discs...

John

These all sold for $1000 or more, now can be had for around $80.

Another that I was able to snag in silver, keeps all my CD's dust free too. Sony DVP CX777ES This thing is huge, so make sure you really want one and have the acreage to place it on lol.
View attachment 1481296

 

[Silentnet]

Hi,

So I'm into vintage stuff: amps, receivers, turntables, cassette decks and such. But when it comes to playing CDs I have an old clunky DVD player with very reliable mechanism from which I send digital signal to an external DAC.

I was made to believe that quality of DAC decides about quality of sound from CD and the newer the DAC the better in general. Though external DACs are quite a new thing.

Tell that to Theta.

(Or Nakamichi. Many others. Dual chassis machines were common, and continue to be, on the high end.)

 

[Grenadeslio]

and that you don't mind too much when it occasionally starts cutting deep ruinous cresent-shaped divots in your discs...

John

Just keep new belts on it and no problems. Been running trouble free for more than 3yrs without a hitch, and I use it on shuffle play so it changes discs every song.

 

[N8Nagel]

some of them are quite good. I have a couple units with old R-2R ladder DACs and while they won't play SACD or DVD-A hold their own quite respectably against newer Delta-Sigma designs.

 

[Eastham]

I have an old Technics SL-P2 16 bit CD player from 1983, sounds great to me. Though I will admit it needed a new belt for the drive tray and the laser sled which is weirdly belt driven and not gear driven but other than that it's been solid as a rock, RF output is still strong and plays every CD I've thrown at it so far burned or pressed. Vintage CD players are a good way to get a pretty good CD player on the cheap if you have the know how to fix 'em and avoid the ones with fubar lasers...

 

[jdurbin1]

Has nothing to do with belts. The transport will randomly pick up a disc and spin it without first getting it centered/clamped properly. That disc then chews the everlasting crap out of the next disc in the carrousel.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/18-d...sony-dvp-cx777es-megachanger-disc-damage.html

I've owned three of these machines for the past several years, current one is the DVP-CX777ES model and I also owned two of the earlier units with same transport (985ES, etc.). Never had a problem with disc damage until the current one decided to start doing it sporadically. I've been through the transport including watching it in action and all of the moving parts are working as intended, can't catch it in the action. It does appear that some discs may provoke the issue, but even that is hard to track down because it isn't the destroyed one that did it, it's the disc next to it in the carrousel and those are not visibly damaged unless you catch one with plastic dust on it from where it was rubbing into the damaged one.

I switched to a UBX-1000ES and retired the changer, can't justify buying replacement discs and using it as a grossly over-sized single disc machine or filling every other slot (to avoid the next disc over being at risk) makes no sense.

John

Just keep new belts on it and no problems. Been running trouble free for more than 3yrs without a hitch, and I use it on shuffle play so it changes discs every song.

 

[Grenadeslio]

Has nothing to do with belts. The transport will randomly pick up a disc and spin it without first getting it centered/clamped properly. That disc then chews the everlasting crap out of the next disc in the carrousel.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/18-d...sony-dvp-cx777es-megachanger-disc-damage.html

I've owned three of these machines for the past several years, current one is the DVP-CX777ES model and I also owned two of the earlier units with same transport (985ES, etc.). Never had a problem with disc damage until the current one decided to start doing it sporadically. I've been through the transport including watching it in action and all of the moving parts are working as intended, can't catch it in the action. It does appear that some discs may provoke the issue, but even that is hard to track down because it isn't the destroyed one that did it, it's the disc next to it in the carrousel and those are not visibly damaged unless you catch one with plastic dust on it from where it was rubbing into the damaged one.

I switched to a UBX-1000ES and retired the changer, can't justify buying replacement discs and using it as a grossly over-sized single disc machine or filling every other slot (to avoid the next disc over being at risk) makes no sense.

John

Put new belts on it.

 

[sssboa]

So on one hand the "audiophiles" rave about how this year's Wolfson or Cyrus DAC chip is better than last year's DAC chip but cd players with DACs from 35 years ago still sound good

 

[spark1]

What is the intent of this thread? DAC technology has improved. This does not mean that all newer DACs are better than all older DACs.

And how a DAC sounds is not just a function of its D/A chipset. The opamp plays a major role.

 

[sssboa]

What is the intent of this thread? DAC technology has improved. This does not mean that all newer DACs are better than all older DACs.

And how a DAC sounds is not just a function of its D/A chipset. The opamp plays a major role.

Check the op-amps of those old cd players, take down the details and ask on an audio forum what they think about using those op-amps in your newly built amplifier. The answer will be like "well mate, these op-amps were designed in the 1970s for use in telephones, not hi-end audio, they are low resolution etc". I was there, have a t-shirt I read how the newest Burr Brown op-amps improve the sound stage, add details and all such Then I popped those op-amps in and the amp usually sounded worse than the original set-up or the same if I was lucky.

 

[N8Nagel]

Check the op-amps of those old cd players, take down the details and ask on an audio forum what they think about using those op-amps in your newly built amplifier. The answer will be like "well mate, these op-amps were designed in the 1970s for use in telephones, not hi-end audio". I was there, have a t-shirt I read how the newest Burr Brown op-amps improve the sound stage, add details and all such Then I popped those op-amps in and the amp usually sounded worse than the original set-up.

I went down that rabbit hole a while back.

I ended up putting in a used op amp from a parts unit and getting back to listening to music.

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/help-me-pick-an-op-amp-to-order.813907/

 

[spark1]

Check the op-amps of those old cd players, take down the details and ask on an audio forum what they think about using those op-amps in your newly built amplifier. The answer will be like "well mate, these op-amps were designed in the 1970s for use in telephones, not hi-end audio, they are low resolution etc". I was there, have a t-shirt I read how the newest Burr Brown op-amps improve the sound stage, add details and all such Then I popped those op-amps in and the amp usually sounded worse than the original set-up or the same if I was lucky.

Sounds like you have all the answers. Why ask the questions?

 

[E-Stat]

Biggest fundamental difference is inability to play 24 bit content.

 

[jdurbin1]

Are you spouting generalities, or do you have specific first-hand knowledge that this issue is caused by belts?

John

Put new belts on it.

 

[dr*audio]

I have found that any Cd player that has 8X oversampling is capable of sounding excellent. The opamps used in the output stage affect the sound much more than the DACs do. The trick is to find a Cd player that the laser is still available for. Only the KSS-213 is available from a reliable source. I have yet to find a source for any other laser that is not crap.