Vintage CD Players and their old outdated DACs
- Thread starter sssboa
- Start date
Decibel_116
AK Subscriber
Hi,
So I'm into vintage stuff: amps, receivers, turntables, cassette decks and such. But when it comes to playing CDs I have an old clunky DVD player with very reliable mechanism from which I send digital signal to an external DAC.
I was made to believe that quality of DAC decides about quality of sound from CD and the newer the DAC the better in general. Though external DACs are quite a new thing. So I wonder how the old CD players from 1980s or early 1990s sound through their analogue outputs fed from their outdated DACs. Nobody used external DACs in the 1980s. Unfortunately I was too poor back then to have a cd player
So how do those early cd players sound from their analogue outputs. They should be horrible, shouldn't they?
But heard a guy boasting about having the first Sony cd player and how good it sounds.
I had an early Sony too. Sounded great, but skipped worse than my turntable when i walked across the floor or hit a big bass note...
the skipper
Professional Curmudgeon
I think they sound pretty good. If your prehistoric CD player has digital outputs, you should be able to make this comparison for yourself.
This presupposes that everything before the digital out is in good shape.
This presupposes that everything before the digital out is in good shape.
david1111
Barba non facit philosophum
@sssboa
The really nice thing about CDPs these days, is all the bad info that's being circulated about them. Things like: cd drawers not opening, lasers not working or available. For these reasons, very high-end CDPs are available for so much less. Like ... true reference level. They have reallly excellent Dacs and reader/transports in them, and the belts and lasers are usually replacable. (You have to thoroughly research that first before you make a short list).
I ended up with a couple of Linn Unidisks, and they sound incredible. Honestly, if you have a revealing system, you wouldn't believe the sound. My short-list included the Arye and the esoteric, and others, cuz you have to jump on a deal when it presents itself.
The Linn Unidisk 2.1 that I got first, would have cost 10k cad, tax in. (I paid $950). And the Unidisk 1.1 is one of Linn's reference-level CDPs, and it even had their latest Dynamik power supply upgrade, and it would have cost about 16-17k cad, tax in. (I paid $2000).
I have a dozen extra belts for them, and they both use the readily available Sony KHM***** laser unit, which I have.
So, even tho that's a lotta dineros for a single audio component.; what it adds to your system in the form of soundstage, detail, air, bass response, delineation, etc., is quite unbelievable until you hear it.
And they're built very well.
Anyway, just thot you should know. Hope this helps your decision.
Good luck with whatever you do.
Dave
The really nice thing about CDPs these days, is all the bad info that's being circulated about them. Things like: cd drawers not opening, lasers not working or available. For these reasons, very high-end CDPs are available for so much less. Like ... true reference level. They have reallly excellent Dacs and reader/transports in them, and the belts and lasers are usually replacable. (You have to thoroughly research that first before you make a short list).
I ended up with a couple of Linn Unidisks, and they sound incredible. Honestly, if you have a revealing system, you wouldn't believe the sound. My short-list included the Arye and the esoteric, and others, cuz you have to jump on a deal when it presents itself.
The Linn Unidisk 2.1 that I got first, would have cost 10k cad, tax in. (I paid $950). And the Unidisk 1.1 is one of Linn's reference-level CDPs, and it even had their latest Dynamik power supply upgrade, and it would have cost about 16-17k cad, tax in. (I paid $2000).
I have a dozen extra belts for them, and they both use the readily available Sony KHM***** laser unit, which I have.
So, even tho that's a lotta dineros for a single audio component.; what it adds to your system in the form of soundstage, detail, air, bass response, delineation, etc., is quite unbelievable until you hear it.
And they're built very well.
Anyway, just thot you should know. Hope this helps your decision.
Good luck with whatever you do.
Dave
restorer-john
Addicted Member
Let's face it, the majority of digital content being listened to all over the world is 16bit 44,1kHz and was likely sourced from CD. The small number of people poking about with so-called 'hi-res' content are a drop in the bucket, both in absolute numbers and available actual 'hi-res' content. To those people, I'm happy for them. They believe there are advantages and are happy to pay extra for the perceived benefit.
The TOTL CD players of old are in a whole other league for playback of 16/44, they are immune to interface issues, jitter, operating system issues, they are built to last and perform unbelievably well. Everyone should seek out and enjoy these machines while they are still floating around at low prices. They will never be made again.
The TOTL CD players of old are in a whole other league for playback of 16/44, they are immune to interface issues, jitter, operating system issues, they are built to last and perform unbelievably well. Everyone should seek out and enjoy these machines while they are still floating around at low prices. They will never be made again.
WobblySam
Well-Known Member
Hasn't this topic been beat to death a half dozen times before? Somebody wants to stir the pot and starts another vintage vs new debate. Who cares? Can't people just enjoy what they like without the need to defend it?
I'm having a grumpy old man day - doesn't take much to set me off.
I'm having a grumpy old man day - doesn't take much to set me off.
My trusty old Kenwood 7-disc (6 magazine and an extra single play slot for the hell of it) with it's "1-bit Oversampling" has never let me down, FWIW. Keep 'er locked and loaded with the best of the '90s and '00s (Smash Mouth, Fallout Boy, Bel Biv Devoe, Black Eyed Peas, etc.) for those truly nostalgic nights. Yeah the mastering on the discs isn't the best, and maybe that 1-bit DAC is kind of crap, but it's an old friend and I'll treat it as such.
No doubt in my mind that the mega-changers won't climb in value soon. Should probably pick one up while I still can, haha.
No doubt in my mind that the mega-changers won't climb in value soon. Should probably pick one up while I still can, haha.
david1111
Barba non facit philosophum
I think we all know what you mean Sam, but I guess new people to AK, or people who haven't noticed earlier threads, still really don't realize yet how good their digital could sound, or how to get it to sound good.
I was at a complete loss, myself, about a year ago regarding this kind of info, and some post in one of these threads got me to try something else, and my whole system has changed.
Also, I haven't noticed any typical, Digital vs Analogue crap, in this thread yet; just the different ways that people have approached the variety of sources available to us now.
Dave
Quoted for TRUTH. This man knows his stuff.
I have many, and I mean MANY, older cd players. Many sound rather good. I have a Sony DVP-NS900V, and it is as good as Grenadeslio says. So, I rock the fairly new, as well as the old.
Op-amps make the difference, for the modders amongst us. I also have a modded Sony Playstation. Believe the hype, they're fun.
Been thinking of getting one for a minute, but I am being good, I have too many irons in the fire right now.
Edit: I need to look up which one to get. I will be at my daughters all weekend and her and my son-in-law have most the gaming systems set up and running. They may have an extra for ole dad.
SCHP-1001 or SCHP-5005, if memory serves. I have one of each, both are very nice.
Mike Stehr
Poverty Audio
I like my old Heart/Marantz. I think they did away with the slop amps, but maybe not...
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0102/heartcd6000.htm
I also use a Pioneer DV-37 as a transport with a Benchmark DAC1. A bit more on the analytical side than the Heart.
When I first started DIY audio, I tweeked a Carver 490T tubed CD player. Fancy 'lytics, Bugle Boy tubes, and also rolled the op amps. That player did sound rather
good until the laser wore out. I do recall if one rolls more modern op amps with higher bandwidth in the older CD players in the low pass circuit, there can be issues with instability
and oscillation. I suppose I got lucky with the Carver. I did roll op amps in a cheaper CD player, (Onkyo?) and it made for a nasty zingy sound.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0102/heartcd6000.htm
I also use a Pioneer DV-37 as a transport with a Benchmark DAC1. A bit more on the analytical side than the Heart.
When I first started DIY audio, I tweeked a Carver 490T tubed CD player. Fancy 'lytics, Bugle Boy tubes, and also rolled the op amps. That player did sound rather
good until the laser wore out. I do recall if one rolls more modern op amps with higher bandwidth in the older CD players in the low pass circuit, there can be issues with instability
and oscillation. I suppose I got lucky with the Carver. I did roll op amps in a cheaper CD player, (Onkyo?) and it made for a nasty zingy sound.
Robint
Super Member
I have 4 Philips/Magnavox/Sylvania cd players, all built around 1989. All use the TDA1541 or A chip and Philips swing arm laser. All function perfectly though on one the digital track meter is missing a few bars. So if a life span of thirty years with only replacing the tray belt and a re-greasing is anything to go by these may go on for ever. As for sound I am happy and will continue to use outdated technology.
cpt_paranoia
Addicted Member
That's the second JVC1050 I've seen today...
I have a couple of Sony ES CD players from the late 80's and early 90's. I don't like the sound of them nearly as well as my Cambridge 740C, Marantz DV7600 or Pioneer Elite DV45A/Maverick DAC combo. However, my Phillips CD-50 (1990) is still quite competitive with my more modern players.
Been thinking of doing this, mine is kind of meh by itself and the SMSL-M8a I have it hooked up to. But full disclosure I have never been a digital fan so it may just be me.
Brett a
~◦●○o0o○●◦~
I second this. I run a late-90's era Rotal RCD 991ae and it sounds pretty amazing; smooth, detailed, open, with a deep sound stage detached form the speakers and extending back behind them. It's performance is comparable to my turntable set up (in sig) but only cost one-fifth the money in current market dollars. (Inasmuch as you can compare LPs with CDs) An RCD 991 can be had for around $300 today. It was $1,500 new.
OTOH, I have a few late-80's/early 90's consumer grade CDPs kicking around; a Sony CDP-361, a Technics SL-P120, and a Kenwood, and I think a Sharp out in the barn. These all sound more similar to each other than different, but they each have their own sonic signature; one will forefront the mids more, and another will highlight the bass, for example. But none of them present a very clear, smooth, or properly scaled overall picture compared to the Rotel. Which I assume is why the Rotel is still $300 today and these others are $30. And/but one thing to note is that they all still work which is definitely commendable.
And, FWIW, I recently bought new a $100 DAC; a Topping D30, whose performance I would confidently group down with the $30 CD players when fed lossless files from my laptop via USB. It's not a very engaging listen.
JumboMumbo
New Member
I have to second that on the early 90's ES players, or at least some of the lower tier ES players. I have a C85ES 5-Disc from 1991. It doesn't sound bad, but is pretty underwhelming compared to when I run it through my Topping D30 via optical, or even compared to my lower end Denon DCD-1300 from the mid 80's. The 85ES sounds a bit dull. Granted this is my only experience with an ES CDP, so take it with a grain of salt.
A few weeks ago I missed a nice NAD player on CL for $75, the owner said the tray just wouldn't open. Probably a belt issue easily fixed. Still mad about that one, lol. I'm curious about high end modern players, but don't have the $$ to dish out on a new one.
Champco
Super Member
Nad makes a lot of different plyers. Was it special somehow? Which one??