Vintage Fried Speakers, Indy

[mech986]

Yeah, I guess I was hoping that someone would magically respond that these were commonplace and shared some drivers with x commonly available speaker. No such luck

Well, the KEF Drivers used in Wiggy's ad post are actually fairly commonplace in the US and if not, you can still get them from England in the used market.

The woofer is the famous oval "racetrack" KEF B139 SP1044, used in many original KEF designs and a lot of other British makes.

The Midrange is the equally famous KEF B110 SP1003 Bextrene midrange and the Tweeter is the well known KEF T27 melinex dome.

the mid and tweeter are better known as the drivers in the BBC/Rogers/Spendor LS3/5a before 1987. Several KEF speakers from around 1968 through 1980 used various combinations of these drivers.

The Fried Model R sort of represents a KEF Concerto in driver complement but switching to a transmission line/pressure tunnel and of course a different crossover.

All of these drivers can be sourced used, and occasionally new in box if one is lucky. However, as Wiggy mentioned, they are many times desired for DIY LS3/5a's or similar so can be sometimes costly to acquire IF you have an expectation of "inexpensive or cheap". Things in demand tend to be more expensive, and of course, you must factor in shipping.

I've sourced plenty of these drivers over the years, and if you pick and choose carefully, you can get deals, or you just pay the price if your need is great.

Frankly, if you live in/near INDY and can pick these up, your competition for these speakers is limited by geography, time and effort primarily. I've heard these speakers and they are quite good, although inefficient. They do have a sort of British reserve to them but do go decently deep. And I think they have a pretty good resale value, whole or, god forbid, parted out.

So, IMO, don't be deterred too much by worrying about spare parts needs. Like many JBL speakers, there is a value/cost to owning such speakers, and one should consider that if you have a particular budget level in mind. Otherwise, these speakers are worth owing and / or restoring.

I've got a pair of cabinets and all the requisite parts to put them back together again at some point. Just need time.

 

[mccarty350]

Thanks for the amazing detailed reply, it is much appreciated! It appears to me that you have heavy expertise in one of the genres of speakers that I have had NO experience with having never owned any british sound origin speakers. That's why I'm rapidly becoming more and more excited at the concept of playing with the Fried.

What are your primary/favorite speakers that you own? Just curious about what someone whose primary interest is in the british sound values i.e. what models are 'great' that display that sound type?

John

 

[mech986]

Thanks for the amazing detailed reply, it is much appreciated! It appears to me that you have heavy expertise in one of the genres of speakers that I have had NO experience with having never owned any british sound origin speakers. That's why I'm rapidly becoming more and more excited at the concept of playing with the Fried.

What are your primary/favorite speakers that you own? Just curious about what someone whose primary interest is in the british sound values i.e. what models are 'great' that display that sound type?

John

Hi John,

Thanks for the kind words. My primary British speakers are various versions of the BBC LS3/5a - Rogers, Chartwell, Spendor are what I own. I also have a number of KEF R101's, Mission 761, IMF TLS50's, and Rogers Export Monitors. I also own and use a number of JBL speakers and pro monitors, primarily 4333B, L300's, and currently L20T3, 4406, and 4425 studio monitors.

In storage quite a few JBL monitors including the 4430, 4435, 4315, and various other consumer models.

In terms of great British speakers, I would easily put the KEF 104.2, 103.2, and 105/105.2 and 105.4, and derivative 107, 107.2 in those categories. Most of the IMF british built speakers like the TLS50, TLS80 and all variations, RSPM, and SACM models are great performers.

If you can find them, Harbeth, Tangent, Audiomaster, many Celestions, and Chartwells are worth checking into. There were also many other smaller names out there that were pretty decent. I personally have had not experience with B&W, Linn, Meridian but they are great on reputation.

 

[mccarty350]

Mech, I ended up purchasing the Fried for something on the order of $114 or so. I'm out on the road so I won't be able to pick them up until I return. Hopefully I didn't spend too much and all of the drivers work, we'll see.

So your speaker tastes are almost opposed, you've got JBL's on the West Coast spectrum and reserved British on the other. Both great fun that's for sure.

I'm pretty excited to return and get a good look at these Fried, I'll post pictures when I return.

John

 

[Wigwam Jones]

Congrats, I hope you really like them!

 

[Gravelyguy]

Congrats on getting the Model R's. I have a pair of R's and will not be parting with them. You got a nice deal too!

Dave

 

[Nat]

Fine speakers, and the drivers aren't hard to find. The Rs are from Fried's first, or at least early, line of speakers after he and IMF split (long, contested story). I had a pair of very early Qs, which were wonderful speakers.
Resistive lines are a cost effective alternative to transmission lines. Not as sophisticated, but nowhere near as expensive to build and to ship. There has always been some question as to how, exactly, a transmission line works, and whether it is actually a very heavily damped reflex speaker (I think John Crabbe argued that this was the case). So perhaps transmission lines, resistive lines and aperiodic enclosures are more closely related than the terminology implies.
At any rate, as with all speakers, how it sounds is what matters, and I believe the Rs have a very good reputation. I think there was some concern about panel resonance (one advantage of actual transmission lines is that the sides are braced by the line), but compared to the analogous driver complement TL, the R was livelier and more efficient.
24 bucks would have been a great price, but 114 is a good price anyway.

 

[indyhawg]

Congrats on the acquisition. Something else that I will needed to swing by and hear.


Posted from Audiokarma.org App for Android

 

[JimPA]

The first model R use a line tunnel for loading the Kef B139 driver.

 

[Nat]

If you go to the first post, you will see that is exactly what the OP got. Resistive line and line tunnel are the same thing -- I use 'resistive line' because I think it actually describes the loading, whereas line tunnel is fairly opaque in meaning, to me at least.
My memory is that that later Rs had black painted panels, and I think these may be fairly early versions -- but that's a WAG.

 

[mccarty350]

Guys I just got back into town and plan on picking these things up tonight or at least I hope. I will roll out pictures as soon as I am able and verify functionality. THANK YOU so much for the part numbers, that will greatly aid if god forbid things don't work.

So what is the distcintion between aperiodic/tl/resistive/ported? Does anyone have a firm understanding of the definitions of these individual terms?

 

[mccarty350]

Hawg, I'll see you within the next couple days for your extra epic find

 

[Nat]

You can find clear definitions of all three loading types, and certainly the construction of each differs obviously from the other -- a heavily damped hole, versus a heavily damped short tube versus a somewhat less damped quarter wave (so long) tube.
John Cockroft used to present his own idiosyncratric designs for very heavily damped, very short transmission lines in Speaker Builder, which if, in fact, they were an actual loading scheme -- I'm not sure he ever really made a coherent explanation of how they worked -- would muddy the waters even more.

I think that the ambiguity (which some might argue only exists because (following Crabbe, if I have the right person, and a few others, I have injected it into the conversation) reflects the multiplicity of factors that enter into how a driver reproduces sound, and how difficult it is to idntify a single cause of any behavior.

 

[mccarty350]

Okay, so owning them now I didn't realize that the yellow strips on the bottom where actual squares of foam defining the egress port for the woofer.

So first off the drivers all work, the midrange dust cap on one of them is mangled but that's about it. There is some scuffing/shrinking on the racetrack woofer as well but overall they are in decent shape, the badge is missing on one woofer.

The sound...wow...the SOUND...first off the level of deep bass out of these is just amazing. I had no concept just how rich deep bass these had. I have the dip switch at the neutral setting on the back, I have just hooked these up so I'm not quite sure what the dip switch controls yet. These are super smooth, the highs and mids detailed, precise, rich. I am beyond impressed, I just didn't think that these would sound this good with the boxy design and primitive appearance.

I'm guessing that these would benefit greatly from a recap? It's 2am or so so I'm not ready to get to unscrewing drivers to determine the best access point to get at the crossover but out the gate these are good enough to warrant a restore. Very impressive.

John

 

[brendandoher]

probably the quality of stuff from Indy and the PNW on shopgoodwill have more to do with the goodwill and their spotters and dedication to posting than the supply of stuff.- at least that's my guess.

 

[Nat]

I can't remember what kind of caps Bud Fried used, but its quite possible that he used film caps rather than the electrolytics that are the usual candidates for replacement. Only way to tell is to check.
The crossover may be confusing -- Fried was one of the few manufacturers to use series crossovers (not all of his speakers did, but if you start unsoldering, make sure you have photos of how it went together before you get into it).
Glad you like them -- they are fine speakers.

 

[mech986]

John,

Great acquisition.

A mod you might consider trying would be to put felt onto the baffle around the mid and tweeter. Another mod would be to put some thick felt square bars (a la BBC LS3/5a) around the T27 tweeter.

This may sharpen the imaging a bit more, not quite sure if it would cut the treble just a tad. The nice part is its easy to reverse and both mods are cheap!

The felt could be cut from a felt eraser, or you could order some from Falcon Acoustics directly or their Ebay store.

Ebay item 160649782671

 

[Nat]

Some of the IMFs used a square frame of foam around the tweeter, and foam weatherstripping is easier to find than thick felt, if you just want to see what it does.

 

[mccarty350]

probably the quality of stuff from Indy and the PNW on shopgoodwill have more to do with the goodwill and their spotters and dedication to posting than the supply of stuff.- at least that's my guess.

That may be true, I can say this, the folks at the distribution center were truly nice folks, every time I've been there they've been more than pleasant and I am usually pretty critical of the masses of humanity. Great folks.

 

[mccarty350]

I can't remember what kind of caps Bud Fried used, but its quite possible that he used film caps rather than the electrolytics that are the usual candidates for replacement. Only way to tell is to check.
The crossover may be confusing -- Fried was one of the few manufacturers to use series crossovers (not all of his speakers did, but if you start unsoldering, make sure you have photos of how it went together before you get into it).
Glad you like them -- they are fine speakers.

They are just amazing speakers. I own a lot of audio and I was expecting something that sounded somewhat boxy and overly reserved, these sounded just flat out amazing. I was blown away, I didn't think I was going to really find something that did certain things leaps and bounds above my existing collection but I truly did. So guys, how do you usually get to the xovers in Frieds? With all the foam and all I'm fearing it might be a nightmare to get to the xovers, I don't want to just start unscrewing things willy nilly.

I do photograph my xovers before I start work, usually I start with a schematic from someone else but I'm guessing in this case due to the number of revisions I'm not going to have that at my disposal.