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Vintage gear VS new gear

quiet said:
No, I don't have a to much gear addiction problem, I have a to small of a room for the gear problem. I have failed to correct that no matter how strong the desire, obsession or effort put forth on my part. And there's been plenty of effort. The best laid plans of mice and men...……….
However if when the time comes I recover the funds spent on this hobby I'll have no regrets.
And be much the richer for the journey. For not one second of my time spent on music has been wasted.
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Why not sell everything and purchase one system only?
 
I would go gently used products from reliable brands so much of the depreciation has already taken place and you can get more bang for your buck.

For speakers, I think you can go 20 years back and still get good, modern sounding speakers and besides crossover caps, there's not a lot to wear out as long as they weren't abused. For electronics, if you don't work on our own gear, I'd probably stay within the last 10-15ys, preferably newer.

I've gone through a ton of gear, and the only thing I can remember buying new is my TT, and that's after cycling through maybe 5 vintage TT's, not being 100% happy with any of them long-term, adn just wanting to cut to the chase and get something I could plug and play with minimal fuss. Had I been more patient, I could have gotten the same TT used for a fair amount cheaper. . .but I'm not always patient.
 
bluenote79 said:
Yes. Thank you! I'm looking at them now. I think I will really like going NEW with my amp since that and my turntable were the main components that were giving me so much trouble before.
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I would start with the preamp/amp. You know you can buy "Almost New" and your right very old gear needs service and even then things stop working with a lot of use.

However you can look at some used McIntosh that can be still a current model or maybe something a bit older 10,15 20 years old. You have to remember Mac will do a model run for 10 years in a lot of case. If you buy something like a integrated amp thats around 10 years old you could have a very nice DAC in it and wouldn't need a stand alone unit. So a integrate like this will have three components covered in one shot, Preamp, Power amp and DAC.

bluenote79 said:
Not sure which way I'll go with the speakers yet. I'm currently researching the Magnepan MMGi speakers per @sqlsavior 's recommendation. Totally open to new and other ideas that would pair well with these Yamaha amps though.
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You can get some pretty good speakers for under $1000 or even $600. If you look at my signature you'll see I have a lot of nice gear but I also know I can make older speakers sound good with what I'm feeding them. I also feel you would be better off right now buying a good quality old table, something like a SL-1200 that is in really nice shape. if this stuff is in great shape it's not what will be giving issues of not working.

What you want is newer in the heart of the system and of good quality so it works for many years to come. Front end components can be added in as they pop up on the used market. Really this applies to the speakers also. There is no one on this site that can say go out and buy this all new or old and you end up with a system that works and sounds good to you with your budget. Building a system is just that, it takes time and smart shopping, being able to strike as something pops up used.

However you can get started with the center of the system and shop your CL listings for nice speakers that will work good with it.
 
4-2-7 said:
I would start with the preamp/amp. You know you can buy "Almost New" and your right very old gear needs service and even then things stop working with a lot of use.

However you can look at some used McIntosh that can be still a current model or maybe something a bit older 10,15 20 years old. You have to remember Mac will do a model run for 10 years in a lot of case. If you buy something like a integrated amp thats around 10 years old you could have a very nice DAC in it and wouldn't need a stand alone unit. So a integrate like this will have three components covered in one shot, Preamp, Power amp and DAC.



You can get some pretty good speakers for under $1000 or even $600. If you look at my signature you'll see I have a lot of nice gear but I also know I can make older speakers sound good with what I'm feeding them. I also feel you would be better off right now buying a good quality old table, something like a SL-1200 that is in really nice shape. if this stuff is in great shape it's not what will be giving issues of not working.

What you want is newer in the heart of the system and of good quality so it works for many years to come. Front end components can be added in as they pop up on the used market. Really this applies to the speakers also. There is no one on this site that can say go out and buy this all new or old and you end up with a system that works and sounds good to you with your budget. Building a system is just that, it takes time and smart shopping, being able to strike as something pops up used.

However you can get started with the center of the system and shop your CL listings for nice speakers that will work good with it.
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Yep, without the strategy of buying current, but (lightly) used models, I certainly would not have the No. 585 integrated amp, which is the heart (and soul) of my main system.
 
Everyones input has been super helpful. I really appreciate all the love you've thrown a newbie like me. And thankfully the thread has stayed really intact. I'm going to take my time on this one, but for my first real day of research, I really like the Yamaha A-SXX1 series. I like the fact that it's brand new and, in theory should last me a long while. I also like the fact that it has a built in DAC, something that I've never had before, but could be nice for streaming purposes. As to what it sounds like, that is yet to be determined. I like the idea of the Magnepan MMGi speakers but I think that it may be tough to give them the 3-4 foot separation from the wall that they need. I could do it if I was single, but I ran the idea past my wife and she looked at me like I was crazy. hehe. I'm not ruling out vintage gear at this point. Especially speakers. But it turns out the Mcintosh C24 combo was priced a bit high (as per another member's insight) I haven't had time yet, but I'm also very curious to peruse the used gear thread on here. It sounds like many a gem could be found that way.
 
bluenote79 said:
Everyones input has been super helpful. I really appreciate all the love you've thrown a newbie like me. And thankfully the thread has stayed really intact. I'm going to take my time on this one, but for my first real day of research, I really like the Yamaha A-SXX1 series. I like the fact that it's brand new and, in theory should last me a long while. I also like the fact that it has a built in DAC, something that I've never had before, but could be nice for streaming purposes. As to what it sounds like, that is yet to be determined. I like the idea of the Magnepan MMGi speakers but I think that it may be tough to give them the 3-4 foot separation from the wall that they need. I could do it if I was single, but I ran the idea past my wife and she looked at me like I was crazy. hehe. I'm not ruling out vintage gear at this point. Especially speakers. But it turns out the Mcintosh C24 combo was priced a bit high (as per another member's insight) I haven't had time yet, but I'm also very curious to peruse the used gear thread on here. It sounds like many a gem could be found that way.
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Newer amps and vintage speakers are a nice idea. You can easily find some that look as cool as your Fishers but sound a lot better. But try the new amps with the Fishers first, they may surprise you.
 
I don't see a lot of risk buying used speakers. If you audition, don't buy obscure brand/model, or difficult to power and pay fair market value. Difficult to really know what speakers will sound like in your room over time, from one audition in someone elses rooms. If months later you have speaker remorse, you could sell with less $ loss. If you buy inefficient speakers, say around 86db spl sensitivity or lower, you may want higher wattage amp. There are other variables, room size, furnishings, music volume etc.

Very subjective: I do like ADS speakers from 1980's and 90's. I think they were well made with nice detailed warm tone. Only you can judge what you like.
 
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bluenote79 said:
I haven't had time yet, but I'm also very curious to peruse the used gear thread on here. It sounds like many a gem could be found that way.
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It is certainly worth your while to subscribe to AK and gain access to Barter Town to see what other like-minded individuals are offering up for sale. Prices tend to be "sane", and the stuff is coming from someone that at least has a "clue" as to what it is and how it performs.

Also--POST YOUR LOCATION--there may be an AK'er right down the block, or at least within a reasonable distance willing to help you out with building a system, giving you an opportunity to audition stuff, or even having what you need/want sitting in the basement or garage, and willing to part with it.

In the interim--it sounds like you need to search for a new "tech". If you keep having to return for repairs on already repaired units, that is not "confidence inspiring".
 
One of the nicer properties of MMGi's is that they are light and easily moved. I know someone who has MG-1's which are pushed against the wall when not in use. MMGi's being smaller and lighter easily lend them selves to this. He uses tiny bits of thread pushed into the carpet to mark their positions for listening.
 
bluenote79 said:
Everyones input has been super helpful. I really appreciate all the love you've thrown a newbie like me. And thankfully the thread has stayed really intact. I'm going to take my time on this one, but for my first real day of research, I really like the Yamaha A-SXX1 series. I like the fact that it's brand new and, in theory should last me a long while. I also like the fact that it has a built in DAC, something that I've never had before, but could be nice for streaming purposes. As to what it sounds like, that is yet to be determined. I like the idea of the Magnepan MMGi speakers but I think that it may be tough to give them the 3-4 foot separation from the wall that they need. I could do it if I was single, but I ran the idea past my wife and she looked at me like I was crazy. hehe. I'm not ruling out vintage gear at this point. Especially speakers. But it turns out the Mcintosh C24 combo was priced a bit high (as per another member's insight) I haven't had time yet, but I'm also very curious to peruse the used gear thread on here. It sounds like many a gem could be found that way.
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Different speakers have different placement needs. The Paradigm Monitor SE's you are considering have a recommended minimum distance from the back wall of 8 inches. Some speakers are designed to be placed right up against the back wall, such as the Heresies.

When I've auditioned them, Marantz amplifiers have had a fuller, warmer sound than Yamaha amps, which is why I mentioned Marantz in an earlier post. Then again, I haven't heard the latest generation from either company.

Buying new has always been my preferred way to go. I like having a warranty, local service support, auditioning facilities, and dealers who let me take floor samples home to try out in my own environment. I like that I will get the full lifespan of a particular product. For example, both Linn and Vandersteen have told me that an expected service life for things like turntable bearings and the drivers in a speaker is about 20 years, and my own experience over the decades has told me this is about right. Spending a little more for something I can be reasonably sure I'll like (after careful auditioning) and that I probably won't have to repair or replace for the next 20 years is well worth it.

Amplifier quality is a debated topic. Alan Shaw of Harbeth has long argued, and put on demonstrations to show, that cheap and expensive amplifiers sound close enough to each other that people can't tell the difference in a blind listening test. Harbeth speakers are designed to be easy on an amplifier, so that might be part of why his demonstrations work out for him. Klipsch Heresies are also an easy load and very efficient, so at least lower-powered amplifiers can be used with them that might not work as well for other speaker designs. 30 or more years ago, a friend bought Heresies and a 20 watt NAD amplifier (along with a Thorens TD 147 turntable), and the sound was amazing. As with anything else, if you have good dealers to work with, they should be able to demonstrate their equipment so that you can decide for yourself.
 
bluenote79 said:
I'm relatively new to the game and am trying to make a decision between purchasing some vintage gear or going with new gear. I would greatly appreciate some basic advice
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1. To my personal long-time experience, for who seeks for sound quality, there is excellent quality, good quality, mediocre quality, poor quality (including various features) audio equipment. Not “vintage” or “new” gear.

2. As for “vintage” gear, the most risky aspect is the risk of loss of quality/functionality because of its age. Difficult to foresee when buying.
 
musichal said:
Yep, without the strategy of buying current, but (lightly) used models, I certainly would not have the No. 585 integrated amp, which is the heart (and soul) of my main system.
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Wow that’s a Ferrari in the amp world I googled it looks amazing!
How costly are used ones?
Vintage speakers are easier to fix then vintage amplifiers definitely.
 
The problem with vintage, even after being restored, its going to let you down sooner than later. There are exceptions of course. I have a Mac piece that's 48 years old, meets specs, and except for cleaning works almost like new. Does it compare to my 8 year old Mac amps, not even close. do they compare to. the quad balanced amps nope. Does my 20 year old Mac pre-amp compare to new SS units. In many way its better as it is more flexible with more features is almost as quiet and almost the same distortion levels. Whether that almost is important to you is another question. MY Mac MX151 doesn't have the latest sound decoding but it does so much more than the latest two models, I'm going to stick with it. Would I want the latest Quad balanced amps sure, but where would I put 14 of them. I'll stick with my two 207's and 206. I'm still waiting for a 307. or a 304 to go with an updated 303. Maybe a 403 or 353. Do you realize Mac has been making 207's for 14 years?
 
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As much as I love vintage gear (and that it's mostly what I use), it's certainly something you want to be aware of what to watch out for the pitfalls of when shopping around.

Higher quality vintage amp/receiver models can often work reliably well if they've been cared for and serviced - some are even worth putting a bit of work into if need be IMO. Speakers may need woofers refoamed, and/or crossovers re-capped. Turntables and (especially) tape decks are going to be the highest risk components - more mechanical/moving parts, and therefore, more ways for things to go wrong or be out of spec - if any vintage TT or tape gear you buy hasn't been serviced beforehand, plan on having to work on it or have it serviced.

Nice new gear can get spendy, but at your budget, this isn't really an issue/you can score some nice new gear. I think it comes down to whether you would rather go the more trouble free route of going new, or are willing to deal with the risks/shop smart in the world of vintage.

In any case, I'd go with the nicest gear you can afford, and take good care of it. More than likely, you'll end up w/quality stuff that will take care of you this way.
 
Being able to sleep at night with the peace of mind that, rest assured , I'll awake refreshed and ready to take on the world knowing that my new modern and contemporary gear will not have to see the insides of an audio technicians workroom, at least in the somewhat distant future;)
 
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