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Justin Credible
In vintage audio, as with classic motor vehicles, if you are not able to repair your own gear, and or lack patience, you will likely be happier with new gear.
Vintage gear VS new gear
- Thread starter bluenote79
- Start date
JoeESP9
ESL's & tubes since 83
If your system is boring there is something wrong. It might be undiagnosed listener fatigue. It's a definite indicator that the system is not satisfying your ears. Music can be boring. A good system is never boring. I'm never bored.
I think with a lot of people in this hobby it's about dragging home as much crap as they can even if it's not used for more than sampling if it even works. It's all about the hunt, ownership and collecting over just buying something to play music.
For music lovers the equipment is just the tool to enjoy their hobby of listening to music. The fun part is the music, exploring it and have it presented to our liking. Here is where the dependability of the equipment comes into play because the listener doesn't want to have to fix the system.
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Yeah, no. The reason I have three different systems in place at the same time along with enough spares of speakers and amps etc is because I love to hear the differences in equipment. It is called being interested in different things. Intellectual curiosity is actually a good thing.
JoeESP9
ESL's & tubes since 83
I satisfy my curiosity with new and different music. I believe that using separates gives one a different outlook. IME those that have separates tend to do very little gear swapping. When we do swap something it's almost always to perform an upgrade. Lateral moves are just that. They may sometimes be different but rarely, if ever, an improvement.
Besides, my RC cars, airplanes and helicopters (all of them electric) along with the N Gauge model RR setup I'm building provide enough different things to do.
Besides, my RC cars, airplanes and helicopters (all of them electric) along with the N Gauge model RR setup I'm building provide enough different things to do.
DaveVoorhis
Addicted Member
Audio is really two -- or maybe more -- almost completely different hobbies in one: It can be all about the music and the gear is secondary, or it can be all about the gear and the music is secondary, or it can be some mix of both with every conceivable combination of gear collecting/owning/trading/hoarding/sharing and music collecting/owning/trading/hoarding/sharing.
It's all good, however anyone chooses to enjoy it.
Yep....don't forget the repair guys and flipping...
musichal
poet emeritus
Like many/most here, I'm among the gear-serves-the-music type of hobbyist. Typically, as with myself when I found AK years ago, folks join and think they've found a huge group of like-minded folks. Took me awhile to realize that there are several groups with somewhat differing perspectives.
For some technically skilled guys, it's mostly about repairing and restoring classic vintage gear - and for a few of those it's less about the music itself, but it would be incorrect to generalize this about all the repair/restore folks. I admire what they do.
For some, it's more about the music than the gear, but it would be difficult to assign percentages. I was a music lover before I became more highly interested in the gear itself, and still consider myself a music lover who wants a decent level of reproduction in my home. Several others here are more demanding of their systems than I, and some less.
For some it's about collecting. Especially for those who didn't have the chance to sample a lot of different gear when they were younger, like I and others did.
For some it is about the best sound they can afford. This is true of most of us to some extent.
While some folks think the guys who reach for TOTL products, whether now or yesterday's gear, are just showing out their wealth. I haven't found that to be the case at all. There's nothing wrong with reaching for the skies, and in the end it's a higher level of reproduction they seek, for the music they like.
Many on AK enjoy searching for the best sound they can find at the cheapest price, usually searching for vintage deals. Nothing wrong with that either.
Unfortunately, sometimes the differing perspectives clash, leading to dust-ups.
Helps to remember that while music and good sound are what draws us together, there are still a lot of differing perspectives among us for exactly what that means. It's best to avoid dogma in order to preserve karma.
For some technically skilled guys, it's mostly about repairing and restoring classic vintage gear - and for a few of those it's less about the music itself, but it would be incorrect to generalize this about all the repair/restore folks. I admire what they do.
For some, it's more about the music than the gear, but it would be difficult to assign percentages. I was a music lover before I became more highly interested in the gear itself, and still consider myself a music lover who wants a decent level of reproduction in my home. Several others here are more demanding of their systems than I, and some less.
For some it's about collecting. Especially for those who didn't have the chance to sample a lot of different gear when they were younger, like I and others did.
For some it is about the best sound they can afford. This is true of most of us to some extent.
While some folks think the guys who reach for TOTL products, whether now or yesterday's gear, are just showing out their wealth. I haven't found that to be the case at all. There's nothing wrong with reaching for the skies, and in the end it's a higher level of reproduction they seek, for the music they like.
Many on AK enjoy searching for the best sound they can find at the cheapest price, usually searching for vintage deals. Nothing wrong with that either.
Unfortunately, sometimes the differing perspectives clash, leading to dust-ups.
Helps to remember that while music and good sound are what draws us together, there are still a lot of differing perspectives among us for exactly what that means. It's best to avoid dogma in order to preserve karma.
CharlieBee
Super Member
Guns vs Butter and old saying or buying items like houses, land, antiques including used audio tend to hold there value vs new cars, new stereos, and new boats that tend to depreciate or lose much of there value with time.
Used audio gear hold there value, are mostly repairable and sound good to most. New audio depreciate faster as do cars and boats.
I have purchased a 9090db, two 9090s, SX1010, AA-1200 and Yam R-9 for $8 to $35 each, in the 2004-2013, all beautiful and working except the SX1010 that was dead and only required a small fuse that I had in the junk box. I found equal bargains on speakers like two JBL L100a, AR3a, HPM 100u, Klipsch Heresy 11 and RS Mach 11. Many Dual, Technics, Pioneer, Sony and JVC turntables were also found cheap. It should be pointed out most were from yard sales and I believe the timing of the purchases was when lots of Vietnam vets were selling their PX overseas military post purchased audio gear . A lot of the receivers now sell for $1200 - $2600 on eBay. So for me the stereo has been a good investment and mostly appricated in value.
The vintage gear may not sound as good to some as the modern $6000 high end gear. They sound good to me as my hearing is not perfect at my age and my teen age grands think they sound great. I have not had the failure others have mentioned happens to much older gear and I think they are more repairable than the newer gear. A bought new dead Pioneer SX780 was fixed with advice from some members of the AK fourm in the early 2000s and I depend on you AKers to help fix my vintage gear.
Charlie
Used audio gear hold there value, are mostly repairable and sound good to most. New audio depreciate faster as do cars and boats.
I have purchased a 9090db, two 9090s, SX1010, AA-1200 and Yam R-9 for $8 to $35 each, in the 2004-2013, all beautiful and working except the SX1010 that was dead and only required a small fuse that I had in the junk box. I found equal bargains on speakers like two JBL L100a, AR3a, HPM 100u, Klipsch Heresy 11 and RS Mach 11. Many Dual, Technics, Pioneer, Sony and JVC turntables were also found cheap. It should be pointed out most were from yard sales and I believe the timing of the purchases was when lots of Vietnam vets were selling their PX overseas military post purchased audio gear . A lot of the receivers now sell for $1200 - $2600 on eBay. So for me the stereo has been a good investment and mostly appricated in value.
The vintage gear may not sound as good to some as the modern $6000 high end gear. They sound good to me as my hearing is not perfect at my age and my teen age grands think they sound great. I have not had the failure others have mentioned happens to much older gear and I think they are more repairable than the newer gear. A bought new dead Pioneer SX780 was fixed with advice from some members of the AK fourm in the early 2000s and I depend on you AKers to help fix my vintage gear.
Charlie
The only time I buy vintage now is to flip it. The new pieces I use now are better than any vintage that came before which is a lot. Still use vintage speakers and TT but they don't come with the complications of vintage amps, integrated amplifier and receivers. Did the inflation math and the Parasound amp and pre cost the same as the KA-8006 bought new in 1975..
Taketheflame
Super Member
In my experience, it depends on which turntables. Vintage belt-drives tend to be beautifully simple and serviceable designs - direct drive can be another story, though getting parts is less of an issue if it's something from Technics.
Vintage speakers I will agree - easy enough to deal with things like crossover caps and foam surrounds, and you often end up with a bargain in terms of dollar-to-performance ratio.
I don't have enough experience to comment on modern amps vs vintage, but I will say ease of service is part of why I'm moving away from receivers and towards integrateds & separates. Well, that, and I feel the more desirable receivers have become way overvalued in the current market and one can build a separates system for similar or even less cash outlay these days
Only new gear for me going forward.
I've been screwed by eBay half the time by bad sellers, bad packaging, or bad product.
Ebay won't side with the buyer, Ebay sides with the sellers else there's nothing to list for sale on its website.
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My streaming source=Apple Music lossless
My video:
I've been screwed by eBay half the time by bad sellers, bad packaging, or bad product.
Ebay won't side with the buyer, Ebay sides with the sellers else there's nothing to list for sale on its website.
---
My streaming source=Apple Music lossless
My video:
I have a Empire 298. As manual as a TT gets. Used it for years and is a great TT but one slip and you have a trashed needle. Broke the cantilever on a Denon 103 and was tired of getting up at the end of a record. Now I use a direct drive Denon with the only automatic function of lifting at the end of the record. It's pretty dang simple and reliable. I'd never go fully manual again.
superdog
AK Member
Newer gear (amps mainly) is what I gravitated to the last number of years I've been at this.I dug vintage for a number of years but I just like everything about newer gear.From the way it sounds to the way it looks not to mention age related issues with vintage I do not want to deal with.
Quadman2
Lunatic Member
It really boils down to reliable/restored vintage vs upgraded modern, the latter covered under warranty (one year) unless extended coverage is paid for. There are exceptions like the Yamaha "Aventage" receiver series. However, keep in mind that an integrated supply source might be the better choice depending upon your use.
One has to take into account that there are a lot less techs who will/can deal with older gear, and the bench costs are up accordingly.
Depth of pocket most often a factor, and $4k can quickly used up when obtaining quality audio equipment esp with some wanting to upgrade or are in the game of re-selling. Then there's the listening environment to take into account if you haven't done so.
If you do have some basic skills and can do some minor repairs for future fixes this might change your POV to and extent, but then there's additional cost of assessment tools.
Take your time, do your homework... before making your end choice.
Q
One has to take into account that there are a lot less techs who will/can deal with older gear, and the bench costs are up accordingly.
Depth of pocket most often a factor, and $4k can quickly used up when obtaining quality audio equipment esp with some wanting to upgrade or are in the game of re-selling. Then there's the listening environment to take into account if you haven't done so.
If you do have some basic skills and can do some minor repairs for future fixes this might change your POV to and extent, but then there's additional cost of assessment tools.
Take your time, do your homework... before making your end choice.
Q
I too have switched to new amps that are highend Class D: NAD C298 (Purifi Eigentakt modules), PS Audio S300 (dual mono), Parasound Zonemaster 2 (with Class A input stage).
They're neutral (so I hear color by my other components as should be), lighter, runs cool to barely warm, has more I/O.
source=Apple Music lossless
My video:
superdog
AK Member
With this being said I do have some 70s and 80s vintage I really like.I think my Sony 7065 is the best sounding vintage receiver I've owned out of many.1980s Yamaha receivers and amps also.I like those.