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Vintage Marantz Receivers vs. Tube Amplifiers and Receivers

The Dynaco ST-70's show up here on AK in bartertown fairly often and usually cheaper than ebay prices. We can't discuss prices here in this forum, but I've seen some really nice deals on restored ST-70's in bartertown. Its only $25 for a whole year to subscribe here. And there are some nice deals in all kinds of equipment. The thing is, the ST-70, whether its a Dynaco, Dynakit clone kit amp, or a VTA ST-70 like mine there is lots of support and documentation on them. And you can usually get your money back out of them if they aren't for you.
Some like to run tube preamps with SS power amps and some like SS preamps with tube amps. Heck, you don't even need a preamp to use a ST-70 or pretty much any other tube amp, you just need a volume control and an input selector. Maybe a phono preamp, if you use a turntable.
I'm using my ST-70 right now just connected to the tape out of my preamp bypassing the preamp stage in my preamp. I added a volume control to the amp. It sounds really good all by itself. The other amps in my main system are connected to the pre-outs on my preamp.
Thanks. Good idea. I'll have to subscribe.

Since I'm running a streamer through a DAC to the auxillary input on my Marantz, I could just as easily run it straight into a Dynaco. The streamer has a volume control.

I also just happen to have an old Kenwood KA-9100 with a blown amp but working preamp. Could use the preamp section with the Dynaco if I'm so inclined. The 35 watts per channel would be adequate to run most speakers.
 
Thanks. Good idea. I'll have to subscribe.

Since I'm running a streamer through a DAC to the auxillary input on my Marantz, I could just as easily run it straight into a Dynaco. The streamer has a volume control.

I also just happen to have an old Kenwood KA-9100 with a blown amp but working preamp. Could use the preamp section with the Dynaco if I'm so inclined. The 35 watts per channel would be adequate to run most speakers.
i have various smaller tube systems and a restored Marantz 1060 I use as a preamp for a model 140 power amp all setup on shelving around my bench.
I use an old smartphone to stream through them all except one system that has a CD player and turntable connected to it. A couple of the tube amps don't have a preamp hooked up to them, a couple have preamps I've built hooked up to them. I use my 17wpc Dynakit ST-35 and 35wpc VTA ST-70 the most in my main system. Both get pretty loud through either a pair of 91db or 93 db speakers I'm using.
 
The Dynaco ST-70's show up here on AK in bartertown fairly often and usually cheaper than ebay prices. We can't discuss prices here in this forum, but I've seen some really nice deals on restored ST-70's in bartertown. Its only $25 for a whole year to subscribe here. And there are some nice deals in all kinds of equipment. The thing is, the ST-70, whether its a Dynaco, Dynakit clone kit amp, or a VTA ST-70 like mine there is lots of support and documentation on them. And you can usually get your money back out of them if they aren't for you.
Some like to run tube preamps with SS power amps and some like SS preamps with tube amps. Heck, you don't even need a preamp to use a ST-70 or pretty much any other tube amp, you just need a volume control and an input selector. Maybe a phono preamp, if you use a turntable.
I'm using my ST-70 right now just connected to the tape out of my preamp bypassing the preamp stage in my preamp. I added a volume control to the amp. It sounds really good all by itself. The other amps in my main system are connected to the pre-outs on my preamp.
Just paid the $25 and I can't find the bartertown thread. Where does one find it?
 
i have various smaller tube systems and a restored Marantz 1060 I use as a preamp for a model 140 power amp all setup on shelving around my bench.
I use an old smartphone to stream through them all except one system that has a CD player and turntable connected to it. A couple of the tube amps don't have a preamp hooked up to them, a couple have preamps I've built hooked up to them. I use my 17wpc Dynakit ST-35 and 35wpc VTA ST-70 the most in my main system. Both get pretty loud through either a pair of 91db or 93 db speakers I'm using.
Two questions. Is there an advantage to using a preamp other than having more than one input option? And what sort of streamer are you running?
 
Two questions. Is there an advantage to using a preamp other than having more than one input option? And what sort of streamer are you running?
An active preamp isn't usually needed. Most line level sources can drive a power amplifier to full output. You just need a gain control and source selector if using or than one source. One exception is a smartphone or tablet. I haven't used one yet that could drive any of my amplifiers to full output. Close though.
An active preamp is needed if your going to want tone controls, certain filter features, turnover point controls, etc.
All that being said, some like myself will still use a preamp, even one that's just a line stage, no tone controls because they can add an overall tone or sound people like.
I'm a big fan of the Aikido circuit design. It doesn't have tone controls, but I really like the clarity and livelyness it adds. I have another preamp that I built that's just the line stage secrion from a Marantz model 7c tube preamp.
A company called Schiit sells some affordable SS and tube equipment.
They also sell a few versions of an active tone control box. No volume control,.l Just tone controls with a. Bypass switch. It's called the Loki.
 

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An active preamp isn't usually needed. Most line level sources can drive a power amplifier to full output. You just need a gain control and source selector if using or than one source. One exception is a smartphone or tablet. I haven't used one yet that could drive any of my amplifiers to full output. Close though.
An active preamp is needed if your going to want tone controls, certain filter features, turnover point controls, etc.
All that being said, some like myself will still use a preamp, even one that's just a line stage, no tone controls because they can add an overall tone or sound people like.
I'm a big fan of the Aikido circuit design. It doesn't have tone controls, but I really like the clarity and livelyness it adds. I have another preamp that I built that's just the line stage secrion from a Marantz model 7c tube preamp.
A company called Schiit sells some affordable SS and tube equipment.
They also sell a few versions of an active tone control box. No volume control,.l Just tone controls with a. Bypass switch. It's called the Loki.
I've had a Schiit Modi. The first generation version. It stopped working at some point and I've since moved on to better DACs but I'm familiar with the company. I've seen some of their headphone amps. Was not aware they make tube amps large enough to drive speakers. Thanks. Will check it out.
 
I've had a Schiit Modi. The first generation version. It stopped working at some point and I've since moved on to better DACs but I'm familiar with the company. I've seen some of their headphone amps. Was not aware they make tube amps large enough to drive speakers. Thanks. Will check it out.
The only thing I've really been interested in is the Schiit Loki's for adding tone controls.
 
I've been both a Marantz and tube fan for decades, so I'll try and break it down in generalized terms.

What I like about tube amps (in general) is they have a velvety smooth and natural tonal quality. Especially in the midrange. A simplistic design that makes it possible for a user to either work on or even fix.

What I like about SS amps is they have more detail and punch in the treble and bass ranges.

The special thing about Marantz SS amps is that they have a tonal quality that is VERY similar to tube amps. Another words a restored 70's Marantz amp will not only sound similar to a tube amp, but have better dynamics and extension.

Now for the downside of owning a tube amp. You WILL need to be electronically "handy". Meaning that you will be doing routine maintenance and basic trouble shooting. Tubes go bad, sockets need tightening, solder joints fail, a hum starts that you can't fix for 6 months, etc..... Also tube prices have become costly. One reason I've been moving away from tubes.

The other aspect of owning a tube amp is the constant upgrades that are now hundreds of dollars. Coupling caps and metal film resistors prices are getting crazy.

A good tube amp is a wonderful thing to have, but do understand that it requires dedication and work to keep operating.

These days I find I get more out of my Marantz 250M than my tube gear. But if you really must have tube amp then get a VTA ST-70, Dynaco ST35 or other Dynaco ST70

Also, when I had receivers, like the 2230, 2245, one combination that I found particularly good was using my 2230 as a preamp on a Dynaco ST70.

These days if had to have only one amp it would be my 250m - hands down!!!
 
I've been both a Marantz and tube fan for decades, so I'll try and break it down in generalized terms.

What I like about tube amps (in general) is they have a velvety smooth and natural tonal quality. Especially in the midrange. A simplistic design that makes it possible for a user to either work on or even fix.

What I like about SS amps is they have more detail and punch in the treble and bass ranges.

The special thing about Marantz SS amps is that they have a tonal quality that is VERY similar to tube amps. Another words a restored 70's Marantz amp will not only sound similar to a tube amp, but have better dynamics and extension.

Now for the downside of owning a tube amp. You WILL need to be electronically "handy". Meaning that you will be doing routine maintenance and basic trouble shooting. Tubes go bad, sockets need tightening, solder joints fail, a hum starts that you can't fix for 6 months, etc..... Also tube prices have become costly. One reason I've been moving away from tubes.

The other aspect of owning a tube amp is the constant upgrades that are now hundreds of dollars. Coupling caps and metal film resistors prices are getting crazy.

A good tube amp is a wonderful thing to have, but do understand that it requires dedication and work to keep operating.

These days I find I get more out of my Marantz 250M than my tube gear. But if you really must have tube amp then get a VTA ST-70, Dynaco ST35 or other Dynaco ST70

Also, when I had receivers, like the 2230, 2245, one combination that I found particularly good was using my 2230 as a preamp on a Dynaco ST70.

These days if had to have only one amp it would be my 250m - hands down!!!
I had collected and restored Marantz separates from the early 70's to '76.
I prefered the earlier preamps like the 33 and 3300. I didn't care too much for the later 3200 or 3600. I liked the model 16 amp that was two mono blocks bolted to a common face plate, and the model 240. But those earlier Marantz SS preamps and amps seemed to take more work to get them to perform right again. But they did sound pretty darn close to tube gear.
I've built some tube amps and preamps. More than I need really. It's just fun to build them and they sound great. They do require keeping more of an eye on compared to SS gear. Depending on how they're biased, you may need to adjust the bias now and then. I still have a Marantz 1060 integrated amp I've used as a preamp for some of my tube amps. For a cap coupled SS amp they sound nice, and do make nice preamps. I have it hooked up to a model 140 power amp right now.
I agree with getting a ST-70, either the original Dynaco, or Dynakit clone, or the VTA ST-70. Lots of documentation, support and mods to choose from.
I like my VTA ST-70. I also have a ST-35 I like a lot also. Both have had some modifications done to them. I have both in my main system.
Recently I added LED bias meters to my ST-70. I can look across the room now to see how the bias is doing without dragging out a multimeter to check. :biggrin:
 

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I've been both a Marantz and tube fan for decades, so I'll try and break it down in generalized terms.

What I like about tube amps (in general) is they have a velvety smooth and natural tonal quality. Especially in the midrange. A simplistic design that makes it possible for a user to either work on or even fix.

What I like about SS amps is they have more detail and punch in the treble and bass ranges.

The special thing about Marantz SS amps is that they have a tonal quality that is VERY similar to tube amps. Another words a restored 70's Marantz amp will not only sound similar to a tube amp, but have better dynamics and extension.

Now for the downside of owning a tube amp. You WILL need to be electronically "handy". Meaning that you will be doing routine maintenance and basic trouble shooting. Tubes go bad, sockets need tightening, solder joints fail, a hum starts that you can't fix for 6 months, etc..... Also tube prices have become costly. One reason I've been moving away from tubes.

The other aspect of owning a tube amp is the constant upgrades that are now hundreds of dollars. Coupling caps and metal film resistors prices are getting crazy.

A good tube amp is a wonderful thing to have, but do understand that it requires dedication and work to keep operating.

These days I find I get more out of my Marantz 250M than my tube gear. But if you really must have tube amp then get a VTA ST-70, Dynaco ST35 or other Dynaco ST70

Also, when I had receivers, like the 2230, 2245, one combination that I found particularly good was using my 2230 as a preamp on a Dynaco ST70.

These days if had to have only one amp it would be my 250m - hands down!!!
Thanks Airtime. This is really helpful. Good information without technical details that I don't understand. I have a 2230 but it needs to be recapped. Right now it's not sounding great. The headphone section does but when it drives speakers, it's way too muddy. I've bought the necessary capacitors and will bring it to the shop when my 2270 comes out. The guy did a great job with my 2235, which now sounds great, so hopefully the other units will too.

Still curious about tube gear. I'm intrigued by your statements about it being easier to work on. How does one learn to work on them?
 
Tubes vs. SS is personal. It depends on what you want/prefer/can afford. And what your system demands. I had vintage Marantz SS amp and preamp. Moved to McIntosh SS amp and preamp. Moved to McIntosh tube amp and preamp. Love my tubes! No reservations. I have horn speakers. The horns prefer tubes. I can’t deny my speakers what they want. (The heart wants what the heart wants.)

That said, it’s 90 degrees here and muggier than the inside of an Okefenokee-Swamp crocodile’s mouth, with the dew point sky high (and no AC in my listening room).

Don’t ask…

So: My tube amps are silent tonight.

Some smart people have both tubes and SS.
 
Tubes vs. SS is personal. It depends on what you want/prefer/can afford. And what your system demands. I had vintage Marantz SS amp and preamp. Moved to McIntosh SS amp and preamp. Moved to McIntosh tube amp and preamp. Love my tubes! No reservations. I have horn speakers. The horns prefer tubes. I can’t deny my speakers what they want. (The heart wants what the heart wants.)

That said, it’s 90 degrees here and muggier than the inside of an Okefenokee-Swamp crocodile’s mouth, with the dew point sky high (and no AC in my listening room).

Don’t ask…

So: My tube amps are silent tonight.

Some smart people have both tubes and SS.
The part of what you've said that impresses me is 90 degrees, swamp-like humidity levels and no A/C. I'm old enough to remember when such things were normal. As a child, my mother took me sister and me to the town pool or the beach every day during the summer. Eventually, my father put in air conditioning. It was still expensive and a luxury then but he found a way, working with a buddy of his who was an electrician to keep costs down. Those are special memories. My parents were backwards in many ways but they worked hard to provide for us and were very steady in that sense.

As for tube versus SS, I hope to eventually experience the difference. I was born in 1963 so I grew up at a time when having a nice stereo was a valued luxury but most of the gear was already SS. My family had relatively cheap stuff. My parents had good but not great speakers (can't recall the manufacturer), a good not great 20 WPC receiver (maybe Kenwood?) and the same for a turntable and cassette tape deck. I had a different system in my room, but it was way cheaper. It was 10 WPC and the speakers were crap but I loved it because I loved the music. We didn't worship the gear then. We'd listen on anything we had. My system was better than many of my friends had.

My parents had friends who had a much nicer system. I think they had a Marantz quad receiver. I don't recall the model. Just the dial with the heavy wheel and the beautiful lights. Also, the father of that family was an electrical engineer so he valued higher-end gear and they had the money to indulge, because it wasn't cheap in those days.

Had I been 10 years older, I would have been exposed to tube gear as a kid. As it was, I remember the warmth of the sound of our systems -- all of them. Even the cheap one in my room. Very different than modern gear, which is far more accurate and precise. Maybe it's nostalgia, but I prefer the older gear. And I have been able to afford to acquire some nice stuff which, back then, would have been very expensive. I have three Marantz receivers -- a 2270, a 2230 and a 2235. Also a Kenwood, a Realistic which sounds surprisingly good and some more modern stuff that I don't listen to anymore.

If I get a chance to experience tube gear and like it, I'll spend what it takes to get some. I've gone to the last store in my town where one can listen to newer gear. I listened to a system there that was tube driven. It really didn't do anything for me. None of the new stuff did. It lacked the warmth I love in my older gear. I hope to get a chance to listen to well restored vintage tube gear at some point.
 
That said, it’s 90 degrees here and muggier than the inside of an Okefenokee-Swamp crocodile’s mouth, with the dew point sky high (and no AC in my listening room).

Don’t ask…

So: My tube amps are silent tonight.

Some smart people have both tubes and SS.
Due to the heat I can not use my tube amps between April to October. During those months need to use a cooler running 250m or the newer Marantz PM 8004. Which I really enjoy using.

I used to have a pair of Dynaco MKii's that ran 8 KT88's. It got to the intolerable point and I had to sell them.

If you go with tubes you do need an area with ventilation and a summer time system. Yes, I have AC but it's like having an electric heater cooking the room.
 
Thanks Airtime. This is really helpful. Good information without technical details that I don't understand. I have a 2230 but it needs to be recapped. Right now it's not sounding great. The headphone section does but when it drives speakers, it's way too muddy. I've bought the necessary capacitors and will bring it to the shop when my 2270 comes out. The guy did a great job with my 2235, which now sounds great, so hopefully the other units will too.

Still curious about tube gear. I'm intrigued by your statements about it being easier to work on. How does one learn to work on them?
Easier to work on also implies that you also know what you're doing. You're dealing with 400-600vDC that can kill you.

If you're still set on tubes then look for either a used Dynaco or buy a kit from tubes4hifi. The kit runs about $1000, $400 for tubes, $100 or so for the cap upgrade kit and I think you're set from there. The kit is a no brainer to put together so don't worry about that. Also look into their ST35 kit. The EL84 tubes are some of the sweetest sounding tubes ever used. I am familiar with the ST35 but I am not familiar with that particular kit.

Stick with the EL34 and EL84 type output tubes. They are the best sounding and easiest to get. Once you start getting into KT88 or similar, now you're in deep waters.
 
Interesting Post. Have owned dozens of systems. Tube and solid state. Started in the mid 60s with Eico. Limited funds age 14. My first new receiver was a Fisher 400. 199 close out. My Dad wasn’t happy I robbed the college fund. Nice sounding receiver. Over the years I have had both. Early 90s I got back into tubes with a Dynaco Stereo 70 amp with a PAS4 (?) preamp and tuner. $30 found a second Stereo 70. Ran both using a Pioneer Quad preamp! Sounded pretty good. As mention above tubes do require TLC. Had one of the output tube short out burning out several resistors! While not a super tech, these Dynaco are easy to work on. Figured out the values on the burnt resistors from the circuit diagram. New tubes with soldered in resisters. Worked! Then traded it all for a Mac 4100 receiver. Nothing great. Their receivers (had several) did not thrill me. Did have a Mac 6100 in the early 2000s. Should have kept that amp.

Looking at tubes, I would suggest Fisher. Had several back in the 90s. Had several. Look at the 500s. I regret selling them. One had Roman numerals on its dial. Only seen one. Worked. Was living in an apartment with three systems. Wasn’t seeing much use. Let it go. Today after a major shakeup, I have low powered Marantz. Sold off the 2270 and a 4270. Love the sound of my 2010 ten watter. Plus a 2220B and 4415 four channel. All a nice warm sound. Love the 2010 the best! Good luck OP!
 
Tubes vs. SS is personal. It depends on what you want/prefer/can afford. And what your system demands. I had vintage Marantz SS amp and preamp. Moved to McIntosh SS amp and preamp. Moved to McIntosh tube amp and preamp. Love my tubes! No reservations. I have horn speakers. The horns prefer tubes. I can’t deny my speakers what they want. (The heart wants what the heart wants.)

That said, it’s 90 degrees here and muggier than the inside of an Okefenokee-Swamp crocodile’s mouth, with the dew point sky high (and no AC in my listening room).

Don’t ask…

So: My tube amps are silent tonight.

Some smart people have both tubes and SS.
All it took for me to jump down the tube rabbit hole was an old Magnavox console amp someone gave me. It is smart I think to have some SS gear also though. After doing some resto work on the Magnavox I thought it sounded pretty darn good. So I got to thinking, if a pretty low budget type tube amp can sound this good, what would a better tube amp sound like? So after building a VTA ST-70 and a couple tube preamps I was hooked. Tube amplifiers don't have to be a big hassle to keep alive. But they do demand a bit of attention from time to time. Mostly making sure you don't have a power tube red plating. I've only ever had two tubes do this and they were used to I start with. For the first timer testing the waters I would choose something new like the Dynaco ST-70 or ST-35 either in kit, reassembled, or even restored used. You can always get most of your money back selling them if you don't like them. If you do like how they sound, then maybe think about a Mac, a Rogue Audio, etc.
 
Easier to work on also implies that you also know what you're doing. You're dealing with 400-600vDC that can kill you.

If you're still set on tubes then look for either a used Dynaco or buy a kit from tubes4hifi. The kit runs about $1000, $400 for tubes, $100 or so for the cap upgrade kit and I think you're set from there. The kit is a no brainer to put together so don't worry about that. Also look into their ST35 kit. The EL84 tubes are some of the sweetest sounding tubes ever used. I am familiar with the ST35 but I am not familiar with that particular kit.

Stick with the EL34 and EL84 type output tubes. They are the best sounding and easiest to get. Once you start getting into KT88 or similar, now you're in deep waters.
Thanks for the suggestion. It's too much to spend without knowing if I'll appreciate the difference. I'm going to have to find another way to come at this.
 
Due to the heat I can not use my tube amps between April to October. During those months need to use a cooler running 250m or the newer Marantz PM 8004. Which I really enjoy using.

I used to have a pair of Dynaco MKii's that ran 8 KT88's. It got to the intolerable point and I had to sell them.

If you go with tubes you do need an area with ventilation and a summer time system. Yes, I have AC but it's like having an electric heater cooking the room.
Thanks for sharing that concern. I live in the Pacific Northwest so there aren't too many times the heat output would be an issue. But from time to time, it would. Today, as an example. We're in a heat wave which for us, in early July, means getting into the upper 70s with high humidity. Used to be no one had air conditioning. Now many do. We have it because we put a mini-split heat pump system in about 7 years ago. At the time, if I could have saved $1,000 to eliminate the cooling option, I'd have gone for it. Now, with continued global warming, I'm glad I did not. From time to time, I use the A/C now.
 
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