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Vintage prices

Good Wassabi

Good Wassabi

New Member
Good day! New member here. I’m building a vinyl system up from scratch. I’ve been researching vintage integrated amp’s such as the Pioneer SX and Marantz 22xx series and using AK as a resource for reviews and market values. My question is have the sold values of these amps gone up in the last 5 years are so? I seem to consistently find ads on craigslist and Facebook marketplace where the asking prices are 2 to 3 times, and sometimes more, than the values the reviews on AK show. Most of the reviews are from 2009 to say 2013. As an example, I have several ads locally for a Pioneer SX-650 that are $125 to $250, but the reviews indicated $50 to $70 was the most one should spend. I don’t want to insult someone with a lowball offer, but I also don’t want to spend too much.

In today’s market what should the SX 650 850 and 1250 go for?
Same question for Marantz 2235 2250 and 2270?
 
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EastPoint said:
check eBay completed items you can see what these receivers are going for.
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Good Wassabi said:
I seem to consistently find ads on craigslist and Facebook marketplace where the asking prices are 2 to 3 times, and sometimes more, than the values the reviews on AK show. Most of the reviews are from 2009 to say 2013. As an example, I have several ads locally for a Pioneer SX-650 that are $125 to $250, but the reviews indicated $50 to $70
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Agreed!, also AK is a great resource for opinions mostly biased, as for values what some might say they would or wouldn't pay is somewhat irrelevant.

AK is not a marketplace and opinions don't set prices, yes there is Bartertown but even then AK'ers aren't selling items for prices that one might see from some delusional seller on CL or FB marketplace who doesn't want to go through the effort of selling on ebay.
 
You and everyone else wanting to get a vinyl rig running is looking for a Pio/Mar/Sui and that has driven prices to above when new MSRP, totally out of line with the market in general. That Pio/Mar/Sui tax (McIntosh, too) is very high and way out of line with the sonic difference between those products and others of similar or better capabilites. This leads me to ask you a new member who has id'ed the two most highly taxed brands why you want those particular brands. Other crap is as good or better but doesn't have the name recognition tax added to the price. Onkyo is a great example their TX-?500 and (II version) models are the equal of those other brands for a third the price or less.

Supply and demand. Those just jumping in demand Pio/Mar/Sui and that jacks up the price so we talk about that brand name tax. There are plenty of folks here that can help recommend other brands if there is any sliver of a chance that something other than a Pioneer or a Marantz would work for you. Only you know what has driven you to these two brands so let us know if you would.
 
Yes, prices have risen in the last 10 years.
Have they topped out yet, who knows.
Posts like WOW LOOK AT WHAT I GOT FOR $25 are usually the exception and not the rule.
The two brands you asked about are known for having their own tax*. IOW their prices tend to be higher due to their name and reputation.
There are other brands out there that are good and not priced as high.
When in doubt, ask here what we think about something.
If something catches your attention you might think twice about posting a link to it here. If it is desirable or a bargain it may get scooped up while you are waiting for answers depending on the market where you are.

Ebay is a good starting point, but keep in mind local prices may be lower due to a much smaller market. Ebay has a world wide audience, your local facebook or CL don't.
Condition, both mechanical and cosmetic is a big factor.

Buying online can be good and bad. When it's good it's good. When it's bad it can really suck.
Buying local or close by can give you the opportunity to SEE and TEST and LISTEN to an item you are considering.
 
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Good Wassabi said:
Good day! New member here. I’m building a vinyl system up from scratch. I’ve been researching vintage integrated amp’s such as the Pioneer SX and Marantz 22xx series and using AK as a resource for reviews and market values. My question is have the sold values of these amps gone up in the last 5 years are so? I seem to consistently find ads on craigslist and Facebook marketplace where the asking prices are 2 to 3 times, and sometimes more, than the values the reviews on AK show. Most of the reviews are from 2009 to say 2013. As an example, I have several ads locally for a Pioneer SX-650 that are $125 to $250, but the reviews indicated $50 to $70 was the most one should spend. I don’t want to insult someone with a lowball offer, but I also don’t want to spend too much.

In today’s market what should the SX 650 850 and 1250 go for?
Same question for Marantz 2235 2250 and 2270?
Click to expand...

No love for Kenwood?

KA-7300, you could do a lot worse.
kenKA7300.jpg
 
Ok so great information on the economics and I certainly get that the attention to the vintage market has driven prices up. Wow and how they have. My interest in those specific brands was due to familiarity in their heyday and personal experience.

In the 70s Marantz was always the OMG brand. As a teenager they were beyond my fiscal means so they were always an unattainable dream. Visually they were elegantly beautiful, and the ones I would listen to at the local hifi shop sounded fantastic.

Pioneer was my first real system. In 1981 I went to college. I sold an Opel GT I rebuilt and used the proceeds, much to my father’s dismay, to buy a complete stereo system from a service man returning from Germany. The TT was a Dual 606 which I still have and the amp was an SX1280. Yea that one!! There was a TEAC cassette and Kenwood speakers in the deal and I think I paid $600 for the whole thing. I still shake my head at that! And at 18 I really had no idea what I had other than a system that rocked!! Fast forward to 1991 and, in a move, the 1280 was stolen. I think after my deductible I got a couple hundred for it. They just didn’t have value. CDs were a big deal and vinyl was on the way out. Surround systems were all the rage. So I picked up an Onkyo 5.1 system and moved on.

Fast forward again and I recently was going through my vinyl collection. Some gems in there! I would love to listen to that original analog sound I remember I loved. I looked up prices for the 1280 and almost fell over!!! I couldn’t believe what they go for now. I can’t drop 2k on an amp these days so I’ve been looking at the other models. Been researching and that’s what got me here.

So, now I have a better sense of current market values thanks to this thread. Maybe I’m trying to relive the teen in the store memory with what I’ve been looking at. But, I’m certainly open to counsel, advice, banter and good ol fashioned cajoling to find a system, vintage or new, I’ll enjoy. Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks for all the comments!
 
Good Wassabi said:
Good day! New member here. I’m building a vinyl system up from scratch. I’ve been researching vintage integrated amp’s such as the Pioneer SX and Marantz 22xx series and using AK as a resource for reviews and market values. My question is have the sold values of these amps gone up in the last 5 years are so? I seem to consistently find ads on craigslist and Facebook marketplace where the asking prices are 2 to 3 times, and sometimes more, than the values the reviews on AK show. Most of the reviews are from 2009 to say 2013. As an example, I have several ads locally for a Pioneer SX-650 that are $125 to $250, but the reviews indicated $50 to $70 was the most one should spend. I don’t want to insult someone with a lowball offer, but I also don’t want to spend too much.

In today’s market what should the SX 650 850 and 1250 go for?
Same question for Marantz 2235 2250 and 2270?
Click to expand...

650 and 850, don't know. 1250 can run from a little over $1,000 to over $2,000 depending on location and selling venue, but cosmetics and documented restoration (or not) are a very large factor in the value. IMO the best built silver-face era PIoneer. If you prefer the 1280 it's prettier with the output meters and multi-color function lights, but certainly not the build quality nor repairability of the 1250. But I digress. Restoring one of these is a job, I just did my (2nd) one and believe I have around $300+ in electronic parts, plus lots of labor to put it back in new condition internally. Buying an needy one is not a great idea unless you can repair and restore yourself, or it's just so cheap you could sell the power cord and break even. Get down to the 650 and it's only worth ~$300 so hard to justify restoration costs, ... 850 in between.

Marantz runs about the same. I like to say a nice one advertised nationally (Pioneer or Marantz) is around $10+ per watt (rated RMS per channel) so a Pioneer SX-1250 is 160 x $10 = $1,600. A Marantz 2270 is 70watts x $10 = $700. The 2270 is probably not the best example in my formula as it is many people's favorite, so it gets a bit of a premium. Get one in perfect condition, properly restored, with a WC-22 case and you're looking at close to $15/watt. Premium (high-demand) models get more, less desired get less. Most of the Marantz 22xx and 23xx are in demand, as are the Pioneer SX over about 850 and are getting a premium also.

Sure there are Onkyo receivers out there that perform very well, their prices are rising also just not as much. Kind of like a 'Cuda, people would rather have the 'Cuda than the Gremlin X, so they're worth more. The good thing about that is if you decide to move to a McIntosh for example, the Pioneer and Marantz gear is really easy to sell, and usually holds its value well.

So yes, look at sold prices on ebay, realize that this is a national-exposure premium but it is the market maker for prices, and dig into every detail on condition.
 
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@Good Wassabi

If you're not in a hurry, have the time & inclination maybe start checking out local estate sales. You might be able to find a gem for relatively small money.

I hear you about the Pioneer/Marantz unfortunately they were so popular back then that everyone getting back into the scene remembers them the most and thus have driven up the prices.

Some brands you might keep an eye out for that fly under the (Pioneer/Marantz/Sansui) radar, Sony, Realistic, Yamaha, Kenwood
 
Other gear that I’ve tried and liked are Kenwood, Sony, Hitachi, Mitsubishi, Yamaha, Nikko, etc. They can sound extremely good, depending on the model, and they are under the radar, more or less.
 
Good Wassabi said:
Good day! New member here. I’m building a vinyl system up from scratch. I’ve been researching vintage integrated amp’s such as the Pioneer SX and Marantz 22xx series and using AK as a resource for reviews and market values. My question is have the sold values of these amps gone up in the last 5 years are so? I seem to consistently find ads on craigslist and Facebook marketplace where the asking prices are 2 to 3 times, and sometimes more, than the values the reviews on AK show. Most of the reviews are from 2009 to say 2013. As an example, I have several ads locally for a Pioneer SX-650 that are $125 to $250, but the reviews indicated $50 to $70 was the most one should spend. I don’t want to insult someone with a lowball offer, but I also don’t want to spend too much.

In today’s market what should the SX 650 850 and 1250 go for?
Same question for Marantz 2235 2250 and 2270?
Click to expand...

Nothing you mentioned is an integrated amp. They are all receivers.

If you're building a vintage vinyl system that sounds good, you should be more concerned about the phono stage and performance than the prices. I realize budget is a concern, but if you get mediocre sounding gear at whatever price you're not going to be happy. Remember you'll also need speakers that compliment the receiver or amp. The turntable and especially the cartridge is also going to make an impact to the sound.

Overall the Pioneer SX and Marantz 22XX series have different and distinct sound characteristics. Ask more questions and do some more homework. Good luck.
 
@Good Wassabi if you post you location folks will reach out.

Cajoling, drop the $25 for a full year of access to the ak buy and sell forums Barter Town. It is a deal as you post a wanted and get a flood of items that may or may not be close to what you want. May or may not be priced below market, at market or over the top. May or may not be restored. May or may not be working. No fees, many will ship. Most are good to deal with...see the feedback forum

Of course, you should post up what you want to do and what you have to do that with in general or solid state and folks can tell you how they would do it, what gear they would get and such. Pricing needs to be discussed here but putting together a rig can be in a more directed forum
 
I like to say a nice one advertised nationally (Pioneer or Marantz) is around 100+ per watt (rated RMS per channel) so a Pioneer SX-1250 is 160 x $10 = $1,600. A Marantz 2270 is 70watts x $10 = $700.

That's actually $10/watt...not $100/watt
 
john5220 said:
I like to say a nice one advertised nationally (Pioneer or Marantz) is around 100+ per watt (rated RMS per channel) so a Pioneer SX-1250 is 160 x $10 = $1,600. A Marantz 2270 is 70watts x $10 = $700.

That's actually $10/watt...not $100/watt
Click to expand...

Yep, corrected. Some day maybe $1k, ...
 
Good Wassabi said:
I’m building a vinyl system up from scratch. I’ve been researching vintage integrated amp’s such as the Pioneer SX and Marantz 22xx series and using AK as a resource for reviews and market values. My question is have the sold values of these amps gone up in the last 5 years are so?
Click to expand...

OK--others have provided the basic "economics" of the market regarding the models that you have on your "wish list". I'll throw another angle at you, that you should seriously consider.

Are you really looking for a "vinyl system" or a "vintage system"? The two are distinctly different, and not "mutually exclusive" or "mandatory". You can choose either/or/both in setting up your system to meet your price and performance needs.

You have referenced only receivers. Do you really want/need a tuner? If not, an integrated amp will work just fine. If you do, an integrated amp will still do just fine, since the prices of even high-quality tuners is way down due to the slow and painful death of radio, and you can grab one for a few bucks. If it is just "the look" of that big illuminated dial and pointer, then you are just going have to be prepared to pay for the aesthetics, rather than useful performance.

Not knocking vintage gear (pretty much everything I own falls into that category, other than modern digital interfaces), but there is modern gear out there (with "classic" styling), that can meet or exceed the performance of "vintage" gear, without the need for service or full restoration $$$, and often including additional features (like a remote or built-in DAC)--and a warranty card.

You already still have your vintage TT, so a quick going-over, and you are good-to-go in that dept.

Lastly--do you really recall, or have recently listened to the vintage gear that you referenced in your original inquiry? "Sonic memory" is not always as good as one would like to believe, and the "memories of days gone by" walking through those aisles and rooms full of big silver-faced receivers (that we drooled over, but couldn't afford) can often cloud our judgement when re-entering "the hobby". Take a good hard (objective) look at your vinyl collection, and all those "gems" you refer to, and then look to see how many titles fall into the category of "what the f**k was I thinking when I bought that one?", and you'll know what I mean.

Sorry for the long read, but I believe these are important considerations.

Good luck with your journey!!!
 
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