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Vintage Yamaha Cartridge Pecking Order

dscalderon

New Member
I'm somewhat confused by the various vintage Yamaha MC cartridges and their relative performance. Among the cartridges I am aware of are the MC-4, MC-5, MC-7, MC-9, MC-11, MC-705, and MC-1S. Can anybody help with the relative pecking order and approximate sales price when they were offered? Is there a "top dog" among these models? Are there other models I have missed? The intended use is on a Yamaha PX-2 turntable.
 
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Also having a Yamaha PX-2 and I also owned a Yamaha MC-9 cartridge I'm somewhat familiar with the cartridge lineup. The MC-705 was the standard cartridge that could be included with the purchase of the PX-2. From checking the Audio magazine equipment manuals from that time perioed, 1980s, the list if Yamaha cartridges appeared to change over time and I'm guessing the performance of the individual cartridges. The MC-1000 seemed to be the best/most exspensive in Oct 1984 and going numerically to the MC-21 performance specs/price lowered. If you can locate anything in the MC-1000 to MC-5 you would be into the top performers from 1984. As I said models changed over time so I'd recommend you check back when you locate a Yamaha cartridge, I was quite pleased with the Yamaha MC-9 performance even though it wasn't Yamahas best.
 
There's an MD-1x in there somewhere,which is well regarded. :thmbsp:
 
From my Stereo Buyer’s Guide 1982, are the following prices (in Australian dollars):

MC-9 $89
MC-7 $129
MC-5 $169
MC-3 $199

I believe the MC-1s was their best. The numbering for most of their cartridges reflects their position in the line, so “1” in MC-1s means the top of the line. There was also an MC-1x – I think the S and X reflect the type of bodies – the MC-1x had an integral plug in headshell/body, but internally they are the same. They had a lightweight beryllium pipe cantilever to lower moving weight. There’s more info on them, including pictures, here http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=83368 and here http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=135158 .

The MC-11 would have been slightly cheaper than the MC-9. I’m not sure about the MC-705, but I think it was a later model. I own a Yamaha MC-7, but have never found it as nice as the Denon and Ortofon cartridges I own or have owned in the past. I can’t really describe why, but it doesn’t sound as refined as the others. However, I’d like to listen to an MC-1!:D
 
Best unique (*) Yamaha moving coil ever was the MC1000 (with diamond coated, tapered beryllium cantilever - yummy! :)), but pretty much all of their models were pretty good performers for the corresponding prices. And I really loved my good, old MC505 (which replaced the MC3 and MC5 around 1985, iirc) - should have never sold that...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

*) some Yamaha moving coils like quite a few of their moving magnet carts weren't unique Yamaha models, but rather renamed Audio Technicas - like the MC705, which belongs to the AT3100/3200 family. And actually I suspect that even their unique models were actually manufactured by AT - got no actual proof for that, though...
 
I used MC 7s for a long time -- a good tracker with a low mass body so easy to match to most arms, nice and neutral, if a little cool. I was given a somewhat used MC 1, and that was a really excellent cartridge. I later bought both an MC 5 and 9, and thought both sounded worse than expected, so I suspect the dampers were dried up. A disappointment.
Incidentally, all of the Yamahas have enough straight edge on their bodies that they are easy to align if you are using a protractor with a grid to help align the body.
 
Resurrecting an ancient thread but seems appropriate to place it here:


Snagged this off of audiogon and it appears to be a variant of the metal body MC-100 cart but the seller names it as a "rare MC-2000 GT, recommended for use with the GT-2000 turntable". It obviously looks nothing like the original MC-1000/2000 (all purple/grey plastic) and I can't find anything about it even on Japanese sites. Could it possibly just be a demo/modded version of the MC-100 with maybe an unpainted undercarriage? Even if it just turns out to be an MC-100 that's fine because I've wanted one for quite some time. Still though I'm intrigued about its origin.
 
808: Whatever it actually is, the cantilever looks suspiciously "fat" to me on that pic. If it were one of the models with taprered beryllium cantilever, I'd expect the cantilever to look a good bit thinner - whereas what I can see on that pic would rather look like a regular alu cantilever to me...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
808: Whatever it actually is, the cantilever looks suspiciously "fat" to me on that pic. If it were one of the models with taprered beryllium cantilever, I'd expect the cantilever to look a good bit thinner - whereas what I can see on that pic would rather look like a regular alu cantilever to me...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

Manfred, I'm guessing you are right but some of my searches on the MC-100 bring up photos of thicker/shinier cantilevers so it could just be some sort of in-Japan refurb/retip. The seller said it came mounted on a GT-2000 that he had bought many years ago from Japan. If needed I could always go the Soundsmith retip route.
 
It very definitely doesn’t look like the original MC-2000.

The MC-2000 had a tapered beryllium pipe cantilever, a ‘special elliptical’ stylus*, 10Hz – 100kHz frequency response, 30dB separation at 1kHz, output voltage of 0.13mV (very low), stylus pressure 1.0 ± 0.15g, weight 5.3g and a 30 ohm impedance.

* Like Denon, ‘special elliptical’ means ‘line contact’ in most cartridge manufacturers’ vocabulary, in this case with R = 40μm and r = 8μm, so it’s the same as Ortofon’s Fine Line stylus in dimensions. Not a particularly thin stylus, but the major radius is quite large, so it’s definitely an extended line contact, rather than an elliptical.

It would probably have been an exceptionally good cartridge.

The MC-100 was a slightly lower model (around half the price, released three years later). It did have a somewhat similar-looking metal body to yours.

The specs and features for the MC-100 were tapered beryllium pipe cantilever, ‘special elliptical’ (line contact) stylus of 8 x 40μm, 10Hz – 60kHz frequency response, 28dB separation at 1kHz, output voltage of 0.2mV, stylus pressure 1.4 ± 0.2g, weight 9.6g, and a 30 ohm impedance. So the MC-100 was still pretty good, if rather weighty due to the metal body.

So it’s still a mystery as to what exactly yours is. I’d say it’s definitely not an MC-2000, but may (possibly) be a re-tipped and re-cantilevered MC-100. Whether that produces a similar-sounding cartridge is anybody’s guess, but I doubt it would.:dunno:

By the way, you can probably tell if it's got a beryllium cantilever - they are a brown colour.
 
Well whatever this cart is it's really nice. Finally installed a YSA-1 on my GT-2000 and mounted it up and gave it a spin today.





I'm wondering if it was some sort of prototype or someone's transplant project. The diamond is really tiny and sharp. I'm running it an overhang of 14.66, standard offset angle and a VTF of 1.5. Obviously I'll play around with it more but it's a great start.
 
Well soon I will find out how good a real MC-2000 sounds...

i-img1200x600-1575876422adzlyo127108.jpg

Complete with cantilever/diamond intact and near invisibilia in such condition.

i-img600x1200-1575876422bbdlq7127108.jpg

I am wondering though what would be the best arm for this cart? Certainly you can use the vinyl engine chart but sometimes real world experience differs.
 
That looks like a very short cantilever on the 2000. Far from being a criticism; a short cantilever reduces the moving mass of the system and extends the high frequency response. The generator having lower moving mass can follow quicker impulses from the groove.
 
That looks like a very short cantilever on the 2000. Far from being a criticism; a short cantilever reduces the moving mass of the system and extends the high frequency response. The generator having lower moving mass can follow quicker impulses from the groove.

They are quite short and with as good as the their other offerings sound I expect no less from the 2000.

I have also confirmed your statement in practice. When I later acquired an original MC-100 with Be cantilver I noticed a significant difference in cantilever length. The prototype was 1-2 mm longer than the original and this of course made a significant difference in high frequency control. While both have wonderfully deep and dynamic mid-range, the shorter Be cantilver had a far cleaner and more controlled top end. The good news is the prototype will be retipped eventually with the original for reference. When needlestein retipped my MC-1x I gave him the measurements for the MC-100 cantilever length and it turned out to be a success.
111227_4.jpg
 
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Well soon I will find out how good a real MC-2000 sounds...

View attachment 1700174

Complete with cantilever/diamond intact and near invisibilia in such condition.

View attachment 1700177

I am wondering though what would be the best arm for this cart? Certainly you can use the vinyl engine chart but sometimes real world experience differs.

Yamaha's best cartridge, and it looks virtually unused! :banana::banana::banana:
 
Finally arrived...

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The input sensitivity on my C-2x is 0.1mV and the output voltage of the MC-2000 is 0.13mV. Talk about squeaking by.
 

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I've got an MC1000. Is there a lot of difference between the MC1000 and the MC2000?

Same body weight, 1000 has 0.17mV output, 2000 has 0.13mV output. Major difference is moving mass. Here is an excerpt from a Japanese blog:


"The stylus tip is a special elliptical needle with a 0.6 mm square solid diamond .
This is the same as MC-2000.

The impedance of 30Ω is the same as 2000.
However, when the winding is 2000, the diameter is 12.7 micron , and when it is
1000, the diameter is 15 micron .

Therefore output of 2000 0.13MV 1000 in from 0.17mV and up .
At the same time, the effective mass of the needle tip was increased from 0.059 mg in
2000, which was competing for the lightest weight at the time , to 0.105 mg in 1000 . However, of course, even 1000 is in the super Romans category. The stylus pressure is 1.2g ."


What phono stage/pre are you using with the 1000?
 
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