Vinyl boom a double edged sword to record shops?

[vinyl1]

A lot of this has to do with the disparity between wholesale and retail. Dealers can't pay more than 10% for common items and 25% for rare records and cover their overhead.

Individuals with good collections can meet buyers halfway, and sell for 50-60% of retail. They will get buyers quickly that way, and walk off with 3 or 4 times as much as they would have gotten from selling to a dealer.

 

[ra7c7er]

I haven't read every post in this thread, but I'll just add I have a relative who owns a small record shop in Brooklyn, they're doing very well, and it seems to me the majority of his stock at any given time is used lps (they do sell new too of course). If Vintage Vinyl expects great stock to just keep walking in the door, I would suggest they do what my relative does: go out and appraise/buy collections every week. If this VV is related to the one we have out here in Fords, NJ, they should have more than enough means to send out a buyer to handle that aspect of the business. And if they don't do this, IMO they don't really have any right to complain.

THey do do that I even posted about their buyers are having a harder time finding good collections. Perhaps your relatives shop has less competition for records in his area.

Perhaps around here their is more competition for records than in many other places. We have 5 record shops and enough flippers to have a record fair bi-monthly. that's a lot of competition for one area. Lets stop attacking one record shop for their practices of trying to keep prices low. I should have left the name of the shop out of it.

Some store owners in my area that I've spoken to. Claim that quality used record collections are just not being offered for sale to them on a regular basis anymore. As was the case just only a few years ago.

They blame the resurgence in vinyl, has made it much more difficult to obtain desirable records to add to their existing inventory. While potential sellers are now selling their vinyl collections on their own and not offering their records to the store.

The "good stuff" if and when they do acquire it, moves very quickly or it's eBayed. While the picked over stock can sit in their bins until it's heavily discounted. Sign of the times I guess. Good luck out there finding scores, in the "vinyl battlefield"!

See guys it's not just one shop it's shops all over.

 

[KrisM]

A lot of this has to do with the disparity between wholesale and retail. Dealers can't pay more than 10% for common items and 25% for rare records and cover their overhead.

Individuals with good collections can meet buyers halfway, and sell for 50-60% of retail. They will get buyers quickly that way, and walk off with 3 or 4 times as much as they would have gotten from selling to a dealer.

I agree with this.

I had a conversation about this with the owner of a local store a couple of summers ago. I picked up a box of lps for $20, pulled the ones I liked after listening to them, and took the rest to trade in. It wasn't rare stuff exactly, but I knew it had some value. Bauhaus and related, Joy Division, etc. I did some ebay "research", and asked him what he would give me for a Joy Division lp(as an example) that sells on ebay for $20, and he came back with $4 or $5.

I forget what my estimate was for those records, but I think I could have priced them at the going rate, and made about $300 through ebay, with some patience. Or priced them to sell, and made less. I was happy to do a trade in for about $60-$70 because I didn't want to deal with the hassles, but I can see why some people would.

I don't think ebay is a problem, I think it's just giving people another option. It's also giving people some knowledge on what lps are worth. I was honest with my local guy, and he was honest in return.

 

[grooveman]

A lot of this has to do with the disparity between wholesale and retail. Dealers can't pay more than 10% for common items and 25% for rare records and cover their overhead.

Individuals with good collections can meet buyers halfway, and sell for 50-60% of retail. They will get buyers quickly that way, and walk off with 3 or 4 times as much as they would have gotten from selling to a dealer.

Might explain the increase in sellers at Record Shows. They seem to be packed with both sellers and buyers.

 

[ra7c7er]

I agree with this.

I had a conversation about this with the owner of a local store a couple of summers ago. I picked up a box of lps for $20, pulled the ones I liked after listening to them, and took the rest to trade in. It wasn't rare stuff exactly, but I knew it had some value. Bauhaus and related, Joy Division, etc. I did some ebay "research", and asked him what he would give me for a Joy Division lp(as an example) that sells on ebay for $20, and he came back with $4 or $5.

I forget what my estimate was for those records, but I think I could have priced them at the going rate, and made about $300 through ebay, with some patience. Or priced them to sell, and made less. I was happy to do a trade in for about $60-$70 because I didn't want to deal with the hassles, but I can see why some people would.

I don't think ebay is a problem, I think it's just giving people another option. It's also giving people some knowledge on what lps are worth. I was honest with my local guy, and he was honest in return.

Your local shop has more to expenses that they have to consider. $4-5 bucks on a $20 dollar album is actually a pretty fair price. That's 25%. Plus you have to remember the local market isn't eBay.

Might explain the increase in sellers at Record Shows. They seem to be packed with both sellers and buyers.

It's easy to be a flipper. Your only over head is your time and the garage sale price of records. It's easy to sell cheaper when you don't have to pay employees and taxes and insurance and rent. And you can buy records for pennies on the dollar.

 

[onwardjames]

But, isn't this sort of a trend across the board? When I joined this site in 2004, I had bought a Sansui AU-G99X for a little over 100 bucks. Working.

Now, I see 2275 marantz that have NOT been recapped, only lubed and new bulbs, go for 500-600 bucks, unrestored 1250 pioneer's going for even more...

As with all things, there will be an ebb and flow. I have SERIOUSLY considered liquidating all my vintage amps/speakers, and going totally modern (warranties are nice) ever since reading some of BigErik's posts about the newer gear.

With the condition of gear some of us have, and the steady influx of new buyers overseas (Vietnam in particular) many of us are sitting on a pile of money, which could buy new gear.

I don't really have the guts to sell some of my stuff, but it seems the market has really exploded in the last 10 years.

 

[vinyl1]

It's easy to be a flipper. Your only over head is your time and the garage sale price of records. It's easy to sell cheaper when you don't have to pay employees and taxes and insurance and rent. And you can buy records for pennies on the dollar.

If, an only if, you don't mind spending all your time looking for records in dirty boxes under the table, and then lugging dozens of crates to a record show, only to find that you sell 5-10% of what you bring even if you offer bargain prices.

Then you add up what you spend on gas, table fees, and records buys, and discover you are making less per hour than you would by working at WalMart.

Many guys do it for a while, and then decide it's not worth it.

 

[KrisM]

Your local shop has more to expenses that they have to consider. $4-5 bucks on a $20 dollar album is actually a pretty fair price. That's 25%. Plus you have to remember the local market isn't eBay.

I know that. As I mentioned, I was quite happy with what he offered. He knew that I was comparing him to ebay, and was straight up about it. He didn't play the "I have to pay rent, utilities, taxes, etc" card, it was implied. I didn't ask him to compete with ebay, I just used it as a general comparison.
To be honest, it was one of the most pleasant bargaining at a retail store experiences I've ever had.

 

[ra7c7er]

I know that. As I mentioned, I was quite happy with what he offered. He knew that I was comparing him to ebay, and was straight up about it. He didn't play the "I have to pay rent, utilities, taxes, etc" card, it was implied. I didn't ask him to compete with ebay, I just used it as a general comparison.
To be honest, it was one of the most pleasant bargaining at a retail store experiences I've ever had.

I'm glad to hear that. When I was selling some comics I had I got the whole I can't compete with ebay blah blah junk. Makes everyone uncomfortable. I didn't even argue the price I was just happy to get rid of them.

 

[oldvinyldude]

Perhaps we are a bit spoiled?

Using one of those internet inflation calculators, I see that what I might have paid $6.99 for in 1977 now costs $26.11 in 2012 dollars. Even if buying used, and being asked to buy a very good/NM album for $12.00, this seems a fair price.

Yet, I really hesistate spending $12.00 on a used album, and wish I was not asked to pay $18.00-$25.00 per new album (higher price for double lp sets-quite common with "CD" length releases). In 1977, I paid these equavalent prices though.......

I see prices rising because of increased demand, coupled with a fixed supply of used items. The 'average joe' has now heard that vinyl is back in fashion, and will seek higher prices for his collection, or the collection that he has been asked to liquidate. As buyers, we will have to pay up-the same holds true for the buyers for the stores.

Yes, I have had it good for a long while :yes:

 

[kirk57]

What I see from posts on AK from different parts of the county is that prices are all over the place, so I'm not sure what the trend is. i can still buy good used vinyl for $3-$5 and closeout stuff cheaper.

Except for rarer/import stuff, most LPs are pretty cheap on Ebay, too.

 

[jsisk]

What I see from posts on AK from different parts of the county is that prices are all over the place, so I'm not sure what the trend is. i can still buy good used vinyl for $3-$5 and closeout stuff cheaper.

Except for rarer/import stuff, most LPs are pretty cheap on Ebay, too.

Same here in Baltimore. Record and Tape Traders sells most of their vinyl for $1.99 to $2.99. A couple bucks more if it is Beatles, Led Zeppelin, etc. Bought two new records there for $8.00 less than Amazon charges. Still lots of deals to be had here.

 

[libertycaps]

Right now is a brilliant time to buy records. Esp. if you know what you are looking for...
It's never a good time to be a blind consumer of anything.

 

[ra7c7er]

What I see from posts on AK from different parts of the county is that prices are all over the place, so I'm not sure what the trend is. i can still buy good used vinyl for $3-$5 and closeout stuff cheaper.

Except for rarer/import stuff, most LPs are pretty cheap on Ebay, too.

Same here in Baltimore. Record and Tape Traders sells most of their vinyl for $1.99 to $2.99. A couple bucks more if it is Beatles, Led Zeppelin, etc. Bought two new records there for $8.00 less than Amazon charges. Still lots of deals to be had here.

The OP isn't about the price of records it's about a record shops ability to maintain a solid used inventory of quality records. It seems to be like price that inventory is harder to get in some places more than others.

 

[jsisk]

The OP isn't about the price of records it's about a record shops ability to maintain a solid used inventory of quality records. It seems to be like price that inventory is harder to get in some places more than others.

Lemme splain it for ya...

In order to beat Amazon's price on new records, you have to have a pretty healthy business and purchase in volume. In order to sell most of your records in VG+, NM, and Sealed condition for $1.99 to $2.99, you have to have a pretty steady supply of incoming records at pretty low prices.

 

[ra7c7er]

Lemme splain it for ya...

In order to beat Amazon's price on new records, you have to have a pretty healthy business and purchase in volume. In order to sell most of your records in VG+, NM, and Sealed condition for $1.99 to $2.99, you have to have a pretty steady supply of incoming records at pretty low prices.

Yeah you do and your local shop must not have much competition if they are getting records in those conditions to sell for 1.99-2.99. Although something tells me you are over grading a bit. At those prices they wouldn't be able to keep a shop full of VG+, NM records.

 

[BluesDaddy]

Perhaps we are a bit spoiled?

Using one of those internet inflation calculators, I see that what I might have paid $6.99 for in 1977 now costs $26.11 in 2012 dollars. Even if buying used, and being asked to buy a very good/NM album for $12.00, this seems a fair price.

Yet, I really hesistate spending $12.00 on a used album, and wish I was not asked to pay $18.00-$25.00 per new album (higher price for double lp sets-quite common with "CD" length releases). In 1977, I paid these equavalent prices though.......

I see prices rising because of increased demand, coupled with a fixed supply of used items. The 'average joe' has now heard that vinyl is back in fashion, and will seek higher prices for his collection, or the collection that he has been asked to liquidate. As buyers, we will have to pay up-the same holds true for the buyers for the stores.

Yes, I have had it good for a long while :yes:

Yep, I agree with this. I remember buying used records in the late 70s for $3 or so per LP, which is almost $10 in today's dollars according to the calculator I used. The $3 I spent in 1970 or so on new (at a Military PX) is now almost $18. I agree that prices now are not really out of line, but that during the digital transition there was simply a glut of product that deflated the prices. That glut is gone now and owners have learned they're not tied to a local store to sell their vinyl, if they're so inclined, for a buck a piece (I know that is probably NOT the rate these days, but I remember selling an awful lot of vinyl for that). To me, that is a good thing. It takes some work, but you can still find reasonable deals out there - especially if you can combine shipping costs through multiple purchases from the same seller.

 

[Condorsat]

Vinyl boom a double edged sword? Never really thought about it. I was just assuming that the old inventory was drying up. The inventory has definitely changed in recent years. Got back into vinyl in late 2000.

I use to go through classic rock dollar bins all the time ... many times I would buy the same album two or three times and keep the best condition or sounding copy. Now, I rarely go through them ... if I find anything it's something I already have a copy of and it's not in as good of condition as the one I own.

I'm still spending the same amount on record buying that I've always spent ... I'm just buying less vinyl at higher prices. Since I have a good sized collection (from my perspective) and into mostly gap filling these days ... it doesn't bother me. Higher prices is what keeps the records I want to buy ... in stock when I visit my favorite store.

As far as local record stores ... there are only two left that I can count on to walk away with great vinyl every time I stop in. Even these stores require some serious digging ... no more low hanging fruit in my experience.

 

[Mr. Lin]

Where do you go shopping for records? I've been hitting Siren Records in Doylestown PA with mixed results :scratch2:

E this is going to sound like bragging but it's not meant as such, but the aforementioned relative, my cousin - who also happens to be one of my closest friend's since we were born - is very generous, so I don't really have to spend as much time "in the field" as I used to, looking for records. However, I occasionally go to Princeton Record Exchange. They always have a ton of used records, and almost always something I'd want, but their grading is iffy in recent years. Perhaps this has to do with what the OP is talking about?

Aside from that, I'm extremely picky about what vinyl I buy now because I have too many records (I know, impossible), so I either hit the internet or add something to my cousin's list to watch out for on my behalf. I usually look for very specific things now, and yes, I'm incredibly spoiled by the internet as well, IMO.

THey do do that I even posted about their buyers are having a harder time finding good collections. Perhaps your relatives shop has less competition for records in his area.

Perhaps around here their is more competition for records than in many other places. We have 5 record shops and enough flippers to have a record fair bi-monthly. that's a lot of competition for one area. Lets stop attacking one record shop for their practices of trying to keep prices low. I should have left the name of the shop out of it.

I'm sorry I missed your comment about their buyers having trouble finding good collections. I believe it. However, since my cousin is in Brooklyn, the competition is pretty fierce, and he does most of the collection-hunting on his own. From what he tells me, most of what he finds is junk, but in many cases there will be a few records that make it worth buying the entire lot (if that's his only option); he finds gold all the time, but there's lots of time and traveling involved.

To be fair, since he's got a smaller operation right now he's able to focus on high quality. I do not envy those record store owners who have to deal with a large stock, in this, or any time period.

 

[ra7c7er]

Vintage Vinyl talking about people seeing the vinyl boom as a means to make money is pure irony. Their pricing is absolutely ridiculous. They are the only independent record store I will never set foot in again.

My regular shops get excellent condition records, I've even found many 50s/60s pressings in NM-/VG+ condition at one in particular in Chicago. The only place I've seen overall poor condition records was at a small shop in Wisconsin, they were bad condition and overpriced. I did find a couple 45s that I bought just to support the shop, though.

What Vintage Vinyl are you talking about. There are 4 of them in the US and I doubt you are talking about the one is St. Louis because their prices are cheaper than any of the 5 shops here. Considering you talk about two stores on in Chicago and one in Wisconsin I assume you are talking about the Vintage Vinyl in Chicago not the one this thread was based on.

Lets make sure if you are singling one shop out you know what shop you are talking about and two lets not turn this into a bashing thread. Also again this thread isn't about the price of records it's about the availability of records for shops to sell.