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Vpi 16.5 & DIY

J

Just Looking

New Member
Afternoon Gents,

I am the proud new owner of VPI 16.5 RCM. :banana:

I've heard that the pick up arm with the felt pads should be changed every 200 records or so. Up here in Canada they run about 30 bucks a pop.
Seems awfully expensive for a piece of plastic with a little bit of velvet glued to it.

Anyone had any luck with making them yourselves?

Thanks,
Wayne
 
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Just replace the (velvet) with the pads for the Mobile Fidelity record brush. Cut, stick, replace.
 
If you can get the equivalent velvet, you can carefully strip off the old and stick new velvet on, by yourself. The tube itself (and the spring, etc...) does not wear out; only the cloth strips get dirty.

Also, if your records are fairly clean to begin with, then you won't be picking up gunk with that head. You may want to clean the dirtier ones once, away from your `16.5, before doing the final cleaning with it. In this way, less dirt will be transferred to the velvet strips in the first place, and they will last longer before they need replacing.

One good idea is to use two heads: one for the regular cleaning, and another for a distilled-water/purified water rinse. If you want, you can move the used 'rinse only' one to the main cleaning head status, and use the newly-covered one as the new "rinse" one. Just keep 'rotating' them that way.

Welcome to the VPI 16.5 club; no doubt you will soon appreciate the difference a good RCM can make!
 
Oh, and, so far so good. I have been on a rampage and hitting every Garage sale I can find.

This thing sure beats the pants off of the glue method I was using before (In terms of time, anyway).
 
Just Looking said:
Afternoon Gents,

I am the proud new owner of VPI 16.5 RCM. :banana:

I've heard that the pick up arm with the felt pads should be changed every 200 records or so. Up here in Canada they run about 30 bucks a pop.
Seems awfully expensive for a piece of plastic with a little bit of velvet glued to it.

Anyone had any luck with making them yourselves?

Thanks,
Wayne
Click to expand...

Congrats Wayne, welcome to the 16.5 club.

So far, I've cleaned about close to 400 LP's with my 16.5, and still have the original Velvet Protective Strips on board. You should be able to get similar results, and get between 350-450 LPs cleaned, before needing to replace those strips.

I won't throw a disgustingly filthy record on the VPI, until I at least do a dusting with a small LAST Applicator Pad. Basically, the same material that's on the VPI, but White in color, and these little applicator pads come with products such as LAST Preservative.

I also wipe clean from time to time, with a little Distilled Water, and a soft Toothbrush. And when I'm done, I always remove the Wand Assembly from the Machine, flush with distilled water, pat dry, and set on the side off the machine to let fully dry. This also helps the Recovery Tank fully dry out.

Don't forget these three important rules, and you'll be fine. One, leave the Lid open when doing a cleaning run, it is not necessary to close each, and every time. Be careful never to close the Lid on the Vacuum Wand when it is swung out of the way for record removal, you can easily crack the Wand. This is how 90% of Wand damage occurs.

Two, get in the Habit of periodically draining the tank, while cleaning. You'll get the feel over time, when it will be appropriate to drain the Tank.Slightly tipping the machine rearward will help aid with more removal of fluids from the Tank, and always fully drain the Tank when done cleaning.

And last, always insure you have the Hose Clamp fully clamped-closed while using the machine.

Dokblues makes mention of cutting the Velvet Replacement Pads for the Mobile Fidelity Brush Pads, and using these. I looked into this, as I have some on hand, and the Mo-Fi replacements were a bit too short in length to work like the originals.

The Disc Doctor sells replacement self adhesive velvet strips specifically for this purpose, and they are four for $15.

Provided your Wand is not damaged-cracked, one does not have to necessarily replace the entire Wand. Peel off the old strips when the time comes to replace, wipe the acrylic wand with some high percentage alcohol, then peel, and stick the new velvet strips. The Wand can be removed from the Tower Assembly by pulling it straight out. Do not twist, or bend the Wand, it can crack. upon re-installation, if if ever needs to be replaced, there is a Locating Pin on the Tower, and a Slot on the end of the Wand, to insure proper alignment of the Vacuum Slot in regards to the surface of the record. The Slot is not exactly 90 degrees perpendicular to the record, but ever so slightly tilted by a couple degrees, to aid better fluid removal.

Hope this helps, and keep us posted on your experiences. Lots of 16.5 users here to help out! Mark
 
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Thanks for the tips.

I have already used up the bottle of cleaning solution that came with the unit and am now using a hombrew. I find myself asking, "where has all the solution gone?". I had a marathon session on the weekend and cleaned close to 60 records. Everytime I had a look in the collection resovoir, there were only a few drops.

Am I missing something? Is it evaporating?
What gives :dunno:
 
Hello Wayne, There could be a couple of factors as to you not noting much fluid in the recovery tank after a cleaning run. One, you may be using a small amount per record side, and you are not accumilating much in the tank?

Or two, another (small) possibility, is that the hose is not tightly secured onto the nipple of bottom of the Stainless Steel Recovery Tank, and it is leaking inside the machine?

It is a simple task to remove the bottom cover from the machine, by placing the machine on its side, removing the four rubber feet with a #2 Phillips Scredriver, removing the bottom cover, and insuring that the Hose Clamp is properly securing the Drain Hose on the Tank's Nipple.

Takes a whole 5 minutes, and is a good idea to give your machine a check-inspection.
Thiis will prevent any future mishaps, and damage caused by possible leaking fluids into the machine. particularly, the bottom cover plate/board.

As for fluid usage, I try to immerse the groove in fluids, thus covering them, I apply, let sit for a few minutes before beginning any scrub routine. Once satisfied I have completly cleaned the record, I then remove the fluids with vacuum.

Again, hope this hepls, Mark
 
markd51 said:
Hello Wayne, There could be a couple of factors as to you not noting much fluid in the recovery tank after a cleaning run. One, you may be using a small amount per record side, and you are not accumilating much in the tank?

Or two, another (small) possibility, is that the hose is not tightly secured onto the nipple of bottom of the Stainless Steel Recovery Tank, and it is leaking inside the machine?

It is a simple task to remove the bottom cover from the machine, by placing the machine on its side, removing the four rubber feet with a #2 Phillips Scredriver, removing the bottom cover, and insuring that the Hose Clamp is properly securing the Drain Hose on the Tank's Nipple.

Takes a whole 5 minutes, and is a good idea to give your machine a check-inspection.
Thiis will prevent any future mishaps, and damage caused by possible leaking fluids into the machine. particularly, the bottom cover plate/board.

As for fluid usage, I try to immerse the groove in fluids, thus covering them, I apply, let sit for a few minutes before beginning any scrub routine. Once satisfied I have completly cleaned the record, I then remove the fluids with vacuum.

Again, hope this hepls, Mark
Click to expand...

Thanks again,

I shall give this a go.
 
Wayne, I'd also like commenting about the use of VPI's cleaning fluids, and the use of DIY as well. Most note that VPi's fluids, (which are probably made for them by another company) is not a bad cleaning fluid, but there is much better to be had.

The biggest gripes of VPI's fluid, is that it generally does not do a thorough enough job, especially on thift shop finds.

As as for a DIY concoction? This too can be a crap shoot at best, with variable results. One may concoct a formula which may be either too weak, and of the wrong components, or should I say not ideal-suitable components, which contain products that shouldn't be placed upon records, or may be too agressive-strong, thus damaging the vinyl, or being very hard to remove.

By not being fully removed, and of improper ingredient mix, one only then removes some of the gunk, and leaves behind yet another bunch of nasties.

This of course is always an arguable debate, one that is never solved, as it would be like asking which toilet paper is best to use, to wipe your butt with?

The major argument that the DIY crowd won't admit to, is cost. That is generally the bottom line of why they defend using such less expensive DIY formulas, and not actually because they have actually tried such state of the art, properly engineered-tested products, which are currently available, then can lay truthful claim to saying that they do not work. In a nutshell, they defend thier personal choices by claiming that these award winning products that I will later mention to you, are nothing more than over-hyped, and over-priced "snake oil".

Trust me when I tell you, they are not snake oil by a long shot, and the actual cost per LP, to do the job right the first time out, comes to pennies per LP.

If you are serious about really getting your LPs sounding thier best, with cleaners that will perform like no other that have ever been manufactured to date, those cleaners IMO, are Audio Intelligent Vinyl Solutions, and Walker Prelude Cleaning System. These two have absolutely no peer, they are the two finest makers of cleaning products on the market, and will surpass any DIY that any layman can make.

One part of the problem I see with DIY, is the acquisition of the right ingredients, and such companies I mention above do not pull thier ingredient list from Wal Mart's Shelves.

Other members here, and myself will-could probably argue this debate till the cows come home, we have of course gone down this road before, but one thing no one will-can argue, is that the RCM is only 1/2 the equation. The right fluids, and the right techniques make up the other 1/2 of getting records properly clean, and sounding thier best.

There are many other cleaners commercially available which are good as well, but not IMO to the level of quality, and effectiveness of the two products I previously mention above. Again, hope this helps, Mark
 
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Vpi 16.5

Markd51 re the replacement felt lips for the VPI 16.5 wand useing the Nitty Gritty package of four does it matter which ones I get? There are two types, one for the Nitty Gritty with fluid pump and the other without fluid pump. The VPI 16.5 replacement wand is now up to $40.
 
Hello Majick47, Gee, I'm not that knowledgeable about the Nitty Gritty Products, but I understand they are a great bunch of folks, and should be able to answer your questions via email.

I'd bet there is probably a difference between the two types of velvet lips, in regards to length and/or width? Probably best to have actual measurements of the VPI Strips in hand, before deciding.

I know the two sets of Strips I ordered from Duane Goldman at the Disc Doctor are more than long enough, and slightly wider than the stock VPI Strips, so I see no problems with these. I'd rather have to trim a slightly too long strip, than have to add a little piece at one end of the Wand because the Strip is too short.

Man oh man, now $40 for a VPI Replacement Acrylic Wand!? Holy cow. reckon that's even more reason to take care of these the best you can.

I imagine one could switch to more durable materials, that would probably last a lifetime, such as PVC, Delrin, and even other materials, such as PTFE Tubing, but then one loses the ability to see through the clear tube when vacuuming.
I sort of like that feature, being able to see if any detergents-foaming is still occuring, while rinsing. Mark
 
I'd like elaborating some, about one of my previous posts, and discussing the choices folks make between a DIY formula, and commercially available brands.

I can understand, and wholeheartedly agree, when someone has a smallish collection, that most are inexpensive thrift finds, they are budding vinylphiles, and don't have a lot of $$$, or cannot part with much $$$$, as other factors in life take precedence before such hobbies.

Then I say yes, one must then do the best they can, within thier own means.

These (cleaning fluids) are just another form of tool, just like a VTF Scale, a Protractor, an RCM, a record, or Stylus Brush, Sleeves, etc.

I would though be a little dismayed at the illogic, when somebody can afford a $500-$1500 RCM, then drop the ball, with less than optimum cleaners, brushes, storage techniques, etc?

Arguments might be an amazingly large record collection, that a user feels that the costs become prohibitive in using more expensive products, and on one hand I can understand this thinking, yet again, collections like these do have a very high monetary value, and I feel that the best steps should be taken to protect that investment. Hope this makes some sense? Mark
 
See the other thread.

I have a post on page 3. I made my own tubes. You can get the velvet at Wal Mart or a fabric store. Use 3M77 spray adhesive. Use lighter fluid to remove the old glue residue from the tubes.
 
Vpi 16.5

Markd51 I found the lips on the Disk Doctor site, good chance they might be Nitty Gritty but if you used them and they work that's all that matters. Also agree with you and I like the clear VPI tube to see what has been suctioned up. The VPI tubes used to be about $26 a couple years ago, should of bought a spare then. I might end up buying a spare to use for the final rinse, also good to have a backup in case something happens to the original one. In your latter post re cleaning and the value of LPs I couldn't agree more. Prices will continue to rise on LPs that are in excellent playable condition. I won't waste my money on a marginal LPs with scratches. My LPs are just to expensive to replace due to improper care. My feeling it's cheaper in the long run to spend money on a good RCM, fluids etc than to replace LPs. Like a lot of AKers I don't have a fortune to spend on this hobby but I want to protect my investment in LPs. I have been fortunate that a lot of the vintage audio equipment and accessories I have purchased in the past has now become very desirable. I can only see this trend continue as more people get into vinyl and the prices of new high end audio equipment becomes out of reach for the average person. Thanks for the info Mark, Rich.
markd51 said:
Hello Majick47, Gee, I'm not that knowledgeable about the Nitty Gritty Products, but I understand they are a great bunch of folks, and should be able to answer your questions via email.

I'd bet there is probably a difference between the two types of velvet lips, in regards to length and/or width? Probably best to have actual measurements of the VPI Strips in hand, before deciding.

I know the two sets of Strips I ordered from Duane Goldman at the Disc Doctor are more than long enough, and slightly wider than the stock VPI Strips, so I see no problems with these. I'd rather have to trim a slightly too long strip, than have to add a little piece at one end of the Wand because the Strip is too short.

Man oh man, now $40 for a VPI Replacement Acrylic Wand!? Holy cow. reckon that's even more reason to take care of these the best you can.

I imagine one could switch to more durable materials, that would probably last a lifetime, such as PVC, Delrin, and even other materials, such as PTFE Tubing, but then one loses the ability to see through the clear tube when vacuuming.
I sort of like that feature, being able to see if any detergents-foaming is still occuring, while rinsing. Mark
Click to expand...
 
Bad news, I'm affraid.

I opened it up and was presented with a forrest of green mold.

I Unscrewed the hose clamp, removed the hose, turned it around and refastened. Poured some distilled water through the top of the vaccum intake. Ureka, it drained. I then followed it up with a normal cleaning cycle with the bottom still off. Hit the vacum, had a look, cleaning solution all over the table :tears:

It looks to be that the cleaning solution is being being passed through the vacum and directly out of the vents of the vacum.

I took it back to the store I purchased it from and was told there was nothing he could do about it and that I was best to contact VPI directly.
Not exactly the answer I was looking for :thumbsdn:

The box is pretty much ruined inside. The particle board construction has sucked up alot of water and left it in a swollen mess.

We'll see what VPI says.
 
Dayum!
i had perhaps assumed you have bought a brand new machine. Re-reading again, you said "I am am the new owner of a VPI 16.5, not "the owner of a NEW 16.5)

Thats is pretty sad, and in my opinion, business wise, absolutely pathetic, and wrong, that who ever sold you this machine, sold you a bill of goods, that could essentially be junk?

I hate asking such personal questions, but if you paid a substantial amount of money, this person has taken you to the cleaners, and if it is indeed a business, I would notify that business with filing a unfavorable report with the BBB. What did they think, that YOU caused all that damage in such a short time!?

But, all may not be lost, I'll try helping you best I can.

The Vacuum Motor Should not be taking on Fluids. This can be caused by a few things. One, as I mentioned previously, not having the Drain Hose fully clamped shut-sealed while vacuuming. Two, inspect again, and check that there is indeed a Foam Rubber Gasket in between the Vacuum Motor's Face, and where it butts up against the Recovery Tank There must be this Foam Rubber Seal there.

May I ask, do you see any evidence that the recovery Tank was ever removed from the Machine? The Recovery Tank is held to the underside of the Top Board of the machine, but it should also as well, be sealed around it's perimeter with Clear RTV Silicone Caulk. Evidence that this Caulk Seal was broken, would be evidence that somebody at some point decided to remove the Tank for some odd, unknown reason?

Or, I am unsure of this, but this could possibly be an original VPI 16 RCM, and somebody poorly upgraded it to 16.5 status?

In any case, the Vacuum Motor must Snug up firmly to the Recovery Tank's Side.
The Recovery Tank should as well have a Baffle plate inside it.

So, what was damaged, just the Bottom Cover Board, or more than this? A copy-clone of the bottom board could of course be fabricated from either plywood, or MDF if you choose, sprayed black, and re-mounted.

Some 16.5 machines have an additional cross piece mounted to the Baord, to properly retain the Vacuum Motor, and some used a seperate Cross Piece instead. In either case, a duplicate could be made without too much trouble. Nobody ever sees the Bottom of the machine anyway.

What I would be mostly concerned about, is the water intrusion into the Vacuum Motor.
None of these types of Motors, which I'm assuming is an Ametek-Lamb Rotary Vaccum Motor, are waterproof. Intrusion of water into the Motor will eventually cause it's failure.

Is there anway you could post a few pics for us to see?

I hope this can help you, and I'll be checking this thread to see what your findings are, and if I can offer any more help to you. Mark
 
Not sure yet, as you haven't yet responded, but if this indeed was a brand new 16.5, it is covered by a one year warrantee. And if this was as well bought from a legitimate, authorized VPI Dealer, then that Dealer should be going to bat for you with VPI, not you!

If this is indeed the case, I'd really like knowing who this dealer was, and I'm sure the rest of the folks would like to as well, so we can avoid this dealer like the plague.

If the machine is used, and you find you may need certain parts that you cannot fabricate, VPI will no doubt have them in stock. Keep in mind, that VPI is only open from tues-thurs. Closed on monday, and friday.

Well wait for your reports I reckon, and go from there. Mark
 
Sorry for the confusion.

The machine was purchased new on July 11th/09, from what I thought, was a reputable dealer. I left the machine with the salesman at the store as he said he could ship it from there. I also asked for a receipt confiriming that he has it in his posession.

The salesman who sold it gave me some cock and bull story about being quicker If I were to advise VPI directly. He said that VPI has a tendancy for replying in a more timely fasion when an actual customer is involved.

As far as the case is concerned, it's toast. Too much water damage to make a repair worthwhile.
 
condolences on the passing of your 16.5

I would call VPI. I haven't talked with them in years, but when I did it was a "mom and pop" kind of operation that I would hope would be responsive. The woman I spoke to there was helpful and pleasant.

After you've got the VPI back from the dealer (or wheeler dealer as the case may be), and you know where you stand, you might consider lodging a complaint with Better Business Bureau, or take him to small claims court if VPI does not help.

I would also consider sharing the name of this dealership (unless it is against forum policy) in this forum. I'm not saying we should pass judgment on this person on the basis of your one experience, but I would appreciate a heads up about someone like this who had such a "can't do" attitude with you.

The last time I spoke with VPI (years ago) their number was 1-732-583-6895. Others on AK may know whether or not that is still their phone number.

good luck!
 
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