I'll have to take a look at mine. I don't remember it being spring loaded at all.
Wanna see a Wooden Grado Laboratory arm on a Lenco L75 (nerds only)
- Thread starter chadbang
- Start date
marcmorin
RIP 1953-2020
there was another thread not too long ago showing the undersides of the arms. One of them had the adjustable "leaf spring"
Huh. I just looked at mine, then re-read the manual. No sign of a spring under the screw that's supposed to adjust the tracking force.
Mea culpa on the "no spring" thing. I did find some info that it wasn't an unknown mod to remove it and just use the weights for VTF.
Anyone have a picture of what this spring looks like?
Anyone have a picture of what this spring looks like?
Never seen that arm. Nice combination!
Actually, right now it's 6,lol. I will PM you photos so not to hijack the thread.
Love it. Would like to hear a wood arm....
freQ(*)Oddio
Super Member
The simplicity is just amazing, a work of art really. nice!My first real tt (early 70's) was a Grado Lab Series and arm. I got tired of chasing a hum and sold it so I could buy a new PL-12D, because I was young and stupid. Two motors, huge flywheel... Would love to have it back.
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Jeff K
Super Member
silver faced
Active Member
Do you have issues in the morning ? Lmao
chadbang
Well-Known Member
Ah, some history? Okay, you've got it:
This Lenco L75 was purchased from a local gentleman. He has sold the arm previously (Haddock?). It was only $150 in the present state. Some scratches. He had a degenerative nerve disease and had to use a screw driver to lift up the heavy platter -- poor guy -- which he liked to oil and lube! Fantastic shape mechanically. Clean as a whistle. What a strong build in this Lenco. I find it much more solid than my old Thorens TD-125. Anyway. It ran at perfect speed the minute it cranked it up. Boom 33.3 dead on. But the arm...
The used tonearm market ... the would-be vinylphile soon learns -- is a little like the black market in body parts. The competition is fierce and there's no end in sight to the fighting and profiteering. It's exciting. It's expensive. Oh, young audiophile, never think "Oh, I'll get an arm later." Be warned: It'll cost you. So expensive, this table gathered dust under a bamboo dresser for two years. Excuse the dusty photos, that dust is completely natural.
Only a few arms work on the Lenco. The platter rides lower than most table and only short arms 9" arms will work on the Lenco. Jelcos do. Basiks do. Haddocks (!), Morch, and couple other exotics. The Rega is not well liked for the surgery involved.
I came across a photo by someone who had mounted an old wooden Grado arm (first generation Grado) and I thought it looked quite nice. Not much talk about the Grado on Lencos, interestingly. I only found two people who had done it!
Grado arms are priced reasonably. A great example (or speculative seller) will ask $350, but you see them trade for less than $200. I bought a first generation arm for $130 which turned out to be flawed (bent arm pivot!). I wasn't sad to return it, because its looks were too much for the Lenco. A wonderful fun nostalgia, Pee Wee's Playhouse arm, but just too much on the Trans Euro Machina styling of the Lenco.
Also the 1st gen Grado arm was the least desirable of three iterations of the arm. The second added ball-bearing pivot point to reduce arm vibration, and third Grado Laboratory Tonearm offered more refinements, including a "outrigger-type" antiskate and overall slimming of the wooden arm.
The third one looked much more "laboratory" to me and I loved it. I was sure that would be a great arm on the Lenco L75. I thought it was worth the experiment, that's laboratory arm. That one kid's photo had convinced me it had promise but I wasn't prepared how happy I would be with the last version of the arm!
I won the arm for a great price of $150 and seller was very knowledgeable and professional in his description. He tested the leads. The arm is immaculate (well, a little dirty. A good cleaner for the aluminum, anyone?) but most beautiful of all is how it gently floated like a butterfly out of my hand the minute it set it on it's pivot! Wonderful! It is a great laboratory piece of gear. I worked in a research gears and those scientists get the best toys! It reminds me of my Glidecam camera mount -- nice heavy parts so elegantly balanced they float. So, in my experience with tonearms, I have think you'd be hard-pressed to find the equal of one of these gorgeous arms. If the most-desirable characteristic of a tonearm is to be able to "vanish" as mechanical factor, the great engineering of the Grado manages this with aplomb.
And despite the dust, I've very pleased the the Grado Laboratory Tonearm is a spectacular match for the Lenco L75 in every way! Fitting, performance, and, in a most pleasant surprise, a stunning aesthetic match for the table!
This Lenco L75 was purchased from a local gentleman. He has sold the arm previously (Haddock?). It was only $150 in the present state. Some scratches. He had a degenerative nerve disease and had to use a screw driver to lift up the heavy platter -- poor guy -- which he liked to oil and lube! Fantastic shape mechanically. Clean as a whistle. What a strong build in this Lenco. I find it much more solid than my old Thorens TD-125. Anyway. It ran at perfect speed the minute it cranked it up. Boom 33.3 dead on. But the arm...
The used tonearm market ... the would-be vinylphile soon learns -- is a little like the black market in body parts. The competition is fierce and there's no end in sight to the fighting and profiteering. It's exciting. It's expensive. Oh, young audiophile, never think "Oh, I'll get an arm later." Be warned: It'll cost you. So expensive, this table gathered dust under a bamboo dresser for two years. Excuse the dusty photos, that dust is completely natural.
Only a few arms work on the Lenco. The platter rides lower than most table and only short arms 9" arms will work on the Lenco. Jelcos do. Basiks do. Haddocks (!), Morch, and couple other exotics. The Rega is not well liked for the surgery involved.
I came across a photo by someone who had mounted an old wooden Grado arm (first generation Grado) and I thought it looked quite nice. Not much talk about the Grado on Lencos, interestingly. I only found two people who had done it!
Grado arms are priced reasonably. A great example (or speculative seller) will ask $350, but you see them trade for less than $200. I bought a first generation arm for $130 which turned out to be flawed (bent arm pivot!). I wasn't sad to return it, because its looks were too much for the Lenco. A wonderful fun nostalgia, Pee Wee's Playhouse arm, but just too much on the Trans Euro Machina styling of the Lenco.
Also the 1st gen Grado arm was the least desirable of three iterations of the arm. The second added ball-bearing pivot point to reduce arm vibration, and third Grado Laboratory Tonearm offered more refinements, including a "outrigger-type" antiskate and overall slimming of the wooden arm.
The third one looked much more "laboratory" to me and I loved it. I was sure that would be a great arm on the Lenco L75. I thought it was worth the experiment, that's laboratory arm. That one kid's photo had convinced me it had promise but I wasn't prepared how happy I would be with the last version of the arm!
I won the arm for a great price of $150 and seller was very knowledgeable and professional in his description. He tested the leads. The arm is immaculate (well, a little dirty. A good cleaner for the aluminum, anyone?) but most beautiful of all is how it gently floated like a butterfly out of my hand the minute it set it on it's pivot! Wonderful! It is a great laboratory piece of gear. I worked in a research gears and those scientists get the best toys! It reminds me of my Glidecam camera mount -- nice heavy parts so elegantly balanced they float. So, in my experience with tonearms, I have think you'd be hard-pressed to find the equal of one of these gorgeous arms. If the most-desirable characteristic of a tonearm is to be able to "vanish" as mechanical factor, the great engineering of the Grado manages this with aplomb.
And despite the dust, I've very pleased the the Grado Laboratory Tonearm is a spectacular match for the Lenco L75 in every way! Fitting, performance, and, in a most pleasant surprise, a stunning aesthetic match for the table!
chadbang
Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the nice comments. I don't know what system it's in yet! They're everywhere! No, I guess it will be in a third system to complete my new AR2a speaker set up. I refinished these two weeks ago. They were so ugly the guy at the record store sold them to me "to get them out of here." Hahah. But I stripped off some gwadawful vinyl veneer and there was some nice pine just waiting to be sanded and stained (nice enough pine I could get away with a gel stain). You guitarist may recognize the grill material: Fender Oxblood with gold used on Bassman amps.
So I don't know what cart will go on it. Probably a 681eee or a Shure Tracer. The old Denon 103 is supposed to be a good choice, but I don't own one. I feel bad about that, never having owned one. It's such a classic. Maybe it's time. I'll watch the trades. Anyway. I decided to bolt down the arm today and complete the install, but I ran into a snag! A serious one! I couldn't level the arm because base was too high. I was way too "tail up!" (I love that expression. Ahem). So now what? I didn't want to mod that beautiful arm or the table, so what to do?
Well, if you can't take 'em on from the front: come up from behind. Jim Morrison backdoor man. And that's exactly what I did. Let me tell you now I'm no master craftsman or technician so when I do things they better be a cheap and easy solution.
So the base was too high, but it has an EXTREMELY adjustable base. There is a long screw that threads into the base and which terminates with the pivot point on which the arm balances on a ball bearing inside inside it. A tiny point spinning on a ball bearing! Neat!
But because the screw end is LONG (you could raise the arm 4" if you wanted to), with all that height to play with, I decided to come up from underneath!
Here's the pivot. You can see the long screw going down into the glass.
Well, I needed to "hang" the arm under the top of the turntable (Is there a term for the top part of a turntable where the control sit and on which the platter is centered? What do you call that part?) I figured I'd suspend it in some sort of a cup. Since it's a wooden arm, I started with something equally humble. A oak cube 1 3/4" in length and width and about an inch deep, out of that I drilled out a 1 1/4" well for the base of the pivot to sit in. I used Speedbore drill, since I didn't have a marple drill. Very simple start.
The hole in the bottom was for the pivot screw to go through, where I would tighten down the arm with a steel washer and wingnut (that's how Grado planned it to be installed).
So I don't know what cart will go on it. Probably a 681eee or a Shure Tracer. The old Denon 103 is supposed to be a good choice, but I don't own one. I feel bad about that, never having owned one. It's such a classic. Maybe it's time. I'll watch the trades. Anyway. I decided to bolt down the arm today and complete the install, but I ran into a snag! A serious one! I couldn't level the arm because base was too high. I was way too "tail up!" (I love that expression. Ahem). So now what? I didn't want to mod that beautiful arm or the table, so what to do?
Well, if you can't take 'em on from the front: come up from behind. Jim Morrison backdoor man. And that's exactly what I did. Let me tell you now I'm no master craftsman or technician so when I do things they better be a cheap and easy solution.
So the base was too high, but it has an EXTREMELY adjustable base. There is a long screw that threads into the base and which terminates with the pivot point on which the arm balances on a ball bearing inside inside it. A tiny point spinning on a ball bearing! Neat!
But because the screw end is LONG (you could raise the arm 4" if you wanted to), with all that height to play with, I decided to come up from underneath!
Here's the pivot. You can see the long screw going down into the glass.
Well, I needed to "hang" the arm under the top of the turntable (Is there a term for the top part of a turntable where the control sit and on which the platter is centered? What do you call that part?) I figured I'd suspend it in some sort of a cup. Since it's a wooden arm, I started with something equally humble. A oak cube 1 3/4" in length and width and about an inch deep, out of that I drilled out a 1 1/4" well for the base of the pivot to sit in. I used Speedbore drill, since I didn't have a marple drill. Very simple start.
The hole in the bottom was for the pivot screw to go through, where I would tighten down the arm with a steel washer and wingnut (that's how Grado planned it to be installed).
chadbang
Well-Known Member
So we all hate bad vibrations and love our isolation, so I simply bought a 1 1/4" rubber washer and put it in the well for the base of the arm to sit in. Maybe it will do something, maybe it won't. But the Grado arm comes with that big, hard rubber/plastic washer for isolation and this rubber washer is taking its place in the bottom of the well. I then glued on a sheet of 1/16th" inch of rubber sheeting on the cube. It's cheap. $2 at Lowes. In fact I bought all this hardware and stuff at Lowes. Total installation expenses:
$3 wood
$4 rubber washers
$2 rubber sheet
$2 in screws
$1 metal washers
So $12 in materials, but I had to pay $9 for the drill bit.
Now there are three screw holes and a large hole for an arm on these L75s and the idea was to use the existing holes without modding the (what do you call it?) "top plate," I guess., so I planned to install three screws with rubber washers that would hold the oak cube well to the top plate. Again, a little isolation from the rubber washers. I added small metal washer later.
And now we plot in the tone arm base and you get the idea!
And then it's like The Tubes sang in "Halo Baby"-- "Coming up from the deep!"
The top plate has some scratches from the previous owner removing his arm, I'm going to touch-up paint it. But you can see now how the base of the tonearm is under the top plate of the turntable. The volcano-like cone of the tonearm base saved my a**. That conical shaped allowed me to come up through the main tonearm hole! It doesn't touch the top plate of the turntable, it comes though the hole without touching it.
And there you have it!
Tone arm is now adjustable anywhere from "tail down" to "tail up" position by adjusting the base screw just as it was intended to do -- only now the arm is secured on the underside of the top plate instead of on the top! Phew. I'm glad the idea came to me when I was daydreaming. Necessity (and poverty) are the mother of invention in my house! Now I have a perfectly level tonearm!
$3 wood
$4 rubber washers
$2 rubber sheet
$2 in screws
$1 metal washers
So $12 in materials, but I had to pay $9 for the drill bit.
Now there are three screw holes and a large hole for an arm on these L75s and the idea was to use the existing holes without modding the (what do you call it?) "top plate," I guess., so I planned to install three screws with rubber washers that would hold the oak cube well to the top plate. Again, a little isolation from the rubber washers. I added small metal washer later.
And now we plot in the tone arm base and you get the idea!
And then it's like The Tubes sang in "Halo Baby"-- "Coming up from the deep!"
The top plate has some scratches from the previous owner removing his arm, I'm going to touch-up paint it. But you can see now how the base of the tonearm is under the top plate of the turntable. The volcano-like cone of the tonearm base saved my a**. That conical shaped allowed me to come up through the main tonearm hole! It doesn't touch the top plate of the turntable, it comes though the hole without touching it.
And there you have it!
Tone arm is now adjustable anywhere from "tail down" to "tail up" position by adjusting the base screw just as it was intended to do -- only now the arm is secured on the underside of the top plate instead of on the top! Phew. I'm glad the idea came to me when I was daydreaming. Necessity (and poverty) are the mother of invention in my house! Now I have a perfectly level tonearm!
I am by far not an expert, nor claim to be, and typically would never tell someone how to use their equipment. But the original rubber base, is angled slightly and needs to be used to give the arm the best accuracy.
The point on the rubber base is a starting point for adjustment as it's thinner than the back end and is used for not only VTA adjustment, but also VTF. The arm has to be adjusted with VTF twice, once on the outer rim of the record, and again at the run out groove area. As you go clockwise, the arm's weight increases slightly. If it gets adjusted once, it tends to be off on the inner by about 0.3-0.6 grams for tracking weight, and the cartridge will be slightly off as well. Tracking weights under 1.7 grams will also have to be adjusted regularly, as it will not hold properly. The arm performs best when over 1.8 grams and up.
Here's the user guide for it as well. https://www.vinylengine.com/ve_downloads/index.php?grado/grado_laboratoryseries.pdf
Pages 5-7 are for set up and explain more in detail about the rubber base,and the spring loaded VTF adjustment. If your arm is like mine, it didn't come with the extra weights, and you'll need to add on pennies to float the arm, then adjust the VTF dial afterwards.
Maybe you'll be lucky and not have that issue, but my arm does and needs the original rubber base.
The point on the rubber base is a starting point for adjustment as it's thinner than the back end and is used for not only VTA adjustment, but also VTF. The arm has to be adjusted with VTF twice, once on the outer rim of the record, and again at the run out groove area. As you go clockwise, the arm's weight increases slightly. If it gets adjusted once, it tends to be off on the inner by about 0.3-0.6 grams for tracking weight, and the cartridge will be slightly off as well. Tracking weights under 1.7 grams will also have to be adjusted regularly, as it will not hold properly. The arm performs best when over 1.8 grams and up.
Here's the user guide for it as well. https://www.vinylengine.com/ve_downloads/index.php?grado/grado_laboratoryseries.pdf
Pages 5-7 are for set up and explain more in detail about the rubber base,and the spring loaded VTF adjustment. If your arm is like mine, it didn't come with the extra weights, and you'll need to add on pennies to float the arm, then adjust the VTF dial afterwards.
Maybe you'll be lucky and not have that issue, but my arm does and needs the original rubber base.
chadbang
Well-Known Member
Interesting about the base. You're right. I just measured it. One side (the side with the bump) is 1/4" and the opposite side is 5/16." So it tilts the entire base to achieve VTA? Neat!. I can't figure out, though, how you can even turn the rubber base if the tonearm is tightened down? Maybe these adjustments with the black base are supposed to take pre-flight to tightening the butterfly screw?
I'm not too worried about VTA as I tend to do most of my setting by eye and it's quite easy to change the VTA just using the set screw, unless that's a no-no.
Why does it seem to me that the slope of the rubber base has more effect on azimuth than it does VTF?
Anyway, I will run these tests using my underside mount and, if need be, made the appropriate modifications to have things running smoothly. I could actually cut a 25 degree slope into the top of my wooden block to mimic the black disc. But hopefully. if there are any minor adjustments, a spacer or two might just to the trick. But thanks for letting me know about it.
Hopefully I won't get too lazy with this set up. I read that manual. I'm like a stick and wire guy at this point with these things. I tilt, pull, and twist until things sound right and that's that story. Ha. But this insight you brought will be very handy. I just I need to think of the tilt of the whole arm when it comes to adjustments.
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Tighten the wing nut just enough for the arm to be flat, but not snug, then you can turn the piece by hand. VTF will adjust as well due to VTA and turning it. It will keep VTF the same at the beginning and end. Took me about 25 minutes to get everything right with the arm,but once right, it sounds much better than by what I initially did. Things opened up with more air,and detail.
If the arm is level with the slope going forward, it won't be level as it runs towards the inner grooves, so adjusting it clockwise will help that.
If the arm is level with the slope going forward, it won't be level as it runs towards the inner grooves, so adjusting it clockwise will help that.