• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Waste of Breath

Status
Not open for further replies.
M

MacSuiSam

New Member
Banned
Hello my friends.

I would love a group of real "wealthy" Mac lovers to purchase Mcintosh Labs back from our friends at Clarion as I believe (from listening and owning several post 1982 MAC components) the build quality (aesthetics and unit chassis construction which seems flimsier and mass market thin) and famous rich, yet laid back Hershey's chocolate sound is not what it used to be. Moreover, other American manufacturers such as Aragon(it kills me to even mention them) run circles around Mac's current theatre processors in price, ease of use, adaptability, and build quality.

Even more and upsetting and tragic, Mac continues to deceive the consumer(and turning away diehard Mac loyalists who only will purchase vintage pre-80 gear) by attempting to "repackage" home theater processors, cd players dvd players in traditional MAC garb (the chassis, glass, etc) and claiming it to be a genuine MAC engineered, manufactured and designed piece when 99% of the gear's internals (processors, brain, clock, etc) are developed, engineered, designed, and manufactured in the Far East!

Especially the MAC multi-disc players of yore which were actually overpriced, repackaged MAC metal and glass boxes camougflauged to hide Nakamichi's unique music bank changers! If loyal MAC fans wanted a Nak CD changer then we would not be into MAC gear! It is like buying a Corvette not knowing that there is a honda civic motor in it's engine bay! Why would anyone want to spend 4k on a dvd player from MAC with mass market transports, processors, etc from Sony, phillips, matsushita or TEAC clothed in a glitzy MAC metal box and faceplate? If I want a cheap mass market cd, dvd, or home theater processor from the usual suspects I will spend $350 and purchase it from Best Buy...

To summarize, Mcintosh attracted a loyal following in the first place because they invented, engineered, and manufactured their own unique audio gear in upstate New York. This is not true today and I feel Mcintosh loyalists and perspective future customers are being misled and lied to. It will take a long time for someone like myself to trust MAC enough to invest 4-6k of my hard earned money on a new MAC dvd player, disc server, or home theatre processor as there is no doubt that the unit is either made by clarion, teac, etc and pathetically disguised in a Mac metal chassis! COME CLEAN!

Moreover, as a lover of all vintage SS and tube MAC amps and preamps, I am disappointed at thisglorious company for selling the "blue meters" down the river. I hope to see MAC one day cut the bologna and stick to the basics by building ONLY amplifiers, preamps, and tuners!! Stop the lie!
 
Register to hide this ad
Have you seen or auditioned the likes of the MC500, and up that chain, or the newer MC352, 402, etc? or the 2102 tubed amp?

Where's the decline in quality there?

Clarion hasnt owned Mc in a few years, and if not for them, Mc wouldnt exist today...
 
Opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one, even Mr. Sam! Nice try on the fishing expedition Sammy but your lure is not very attractive.

Thanks,
Ron
 
While I disagree with most of MacSuiSam's post, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However, I feel obligated to correct factual error. McIntosh is no longer owned by Clarion. D&M Holdings, the parent corporation of Denon and Marantz, purchased McIntosh from Clarion in 2003.
 
How True...

ron-c said:
Opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one, even Mr. Sam! Nice try on the fishing expedition Sammy but your lure is not very attractive.

Thanks,
Ron
Click to expand...
One of my pops favorite sayings, only he added "all of them stink".
HAHA
 
MACdown continued

Fishing expedition? If Clarion does not own MAC anymore than who does? Is that all we could come up with as an answer to my post, the 'A hole' joke? Ron, all I ask is a fair and honest answer to my question regarding the big black and shiny MAC boxes disguising mass market gear such as the MCD-7005 (one example if this is true). If you have objective data proving me otherwise than I stand corrected however no one has been able to prove me wrong as of yet. Please, prove me wrong with real data. If there is nothing to hide than why not just be honest?

Moreover, if I am wrong regarding Mcintosh's current and recent line-up of cd players, dvd players, music servers, and processors, who does design, develop, and manufacturers Mac's transports, various digital internal components? It would be nice to get an honest answer instead of just smoke and mirrors and insults.

The posting was not intended to offend anyone as it is:
a). My opinion regarding the current build quality issue and sonics
b.) Subject to CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM, c). As a consumer and a MAC lover, I would just like honest answers d). I think we as consumers deserve an honest, and more importantly true answer to my mass market question.

Moreover, I look forward to hearing from ya'll.

Thanks in advance,
Sam
 
Someone thinks the more you say "moreover", the more intelligent you seem....wrong.

And how is the onus placed on Ron (or anyone else for that matter) to prove you wrong?
I put it to you to prove your points.
You want to point out goofy audio facts? How about who owns Mark Levinson/Madrigal.
 
I have no problem with the fact that mac sometimes takes parts made by other companies (well experienced for making that part), check if they are up to their specs and that designs all the supplies and the analog section where it matters to make a great product. The glass an old-school look is just an extra.

If I want to produce a great system, do I have to design every single piece of it?

Should have Mac designed the hard drive in the MS300? Will "someone" argue that maybe it would have sounded better? or that an other company makes an equivalent that really sounds as good........?
 
Almost all manufacturers buy parts from others and not just audio, but cars, and of course, computers. A company like McIntosh will give exact specs to a supplier and then package the final product together with in-house designed critical components such as the DAC.

The MS300 is based on an Escient music server (great in it's own right) also owned by mother ship D&M Holdings. If I'm not mistaken, Mac uses most of the Escient pieces and adds their critical DAC. I could not be happier with this piece. Unlike every computer based music server I have tried (many) the MS300 has a terrific interface, has been incredibly reliable for this type of technology, and sounds awesome.

By the way, Levinson is owned by massive Harman Industries (Harman/Karden, JBL...), Aston Martin is owned by Ford, Bentley is owned by VW, Rolls Royce is owned by BMW, and Ferrari is owned by Fiat. So?

JR
 
MacSuiSam said:

To summarize, Mcintosh attracted a loyal following in the first place because they invented, engineered, and manufactured their own unique audio gear in upstate New York.
Click to expand...
This really should be discussed in a seperate thread. But, I agree with what others have said here ... your position is totally perplexing and is misinformed. You display a bias based on hearsay rather than true knowledge. You shot your own credibility in the foot by bringing up Clarion. What little do you really know? You set yourself up to be challenged!

But ... Did you even bother to look here at the recent factory tour? Did you not see the pictures of the plant and where they have been winding McIntosh transformers in-house for the past 40 years? What are all those engineers with pocket protectors at Bighamton doing? Twiddling their thumbs? Your assertions just don't hold water.

Furthermore, I really wonder if you have actually HEARD and SEEN/TOUCHED the current McIntosh line-up lately? If you have, I really doubt you would be doing this silly speculating about what is wrong with McIntosh.

The products sound great and look great, and provide good value! Are they the best in the world? Purely subjective. But its hard for me to imagine anyone who has actually seen an MC501 or an MCD1000 in the flesh and most importantly heard one that they are anything but competitive products that sound and look great compared to a lot of stuff that looks made in a garage (with dubious QC to boot). Even if someone decides to buy a Krell, Conrad-Johnson, Accuphase or some other high-end brand based on subjective preferences, they can't deny that McIntosh is a real player. Someone spending $6k today on a McIntosh component is getting a product that is very competitive.
 
Last edited:
I own Mc gear dating from 1968, 72, 80, the 90s and current. Even after restoration of the vintage gear, the best stuff is the current. IMHO, Mc has never made an amp that sounds better than the MC501 (I've never heard the MC2KW). Note that audio review magazines worldwide heap praises on current Mc gear. There is simply no evidence to back a belief that the current stuff is bad because a lot of the parts are made overseas. That kind of jingoistic thinking can't be answered with logic and facts. It's based on fear.

Why ask anyone to be an apologist for the MCD-7005 now? It was made in 87-88. Clarion? I think they bought Mc after that, then sold it almost three years ago. Why Ron-C? I dunno for sure, but I'd guess in 87-88, almost 20 years ago, Ron was still in school. He sure wasn't a honcho at Mc as he is now, and can hardly be expected to explain production decisions made that long ago.

Bottom line, this doesn't seem to be a legitimate inquiry. Rather, as Ron so swiftly concluded, an ill-crafted lure into a silly debate. Sadly, it appears that in one of his very first posts on this forum, this individual has chosen to attack and challenge. Not a good sign, methinks...
 
And your point is what, Sam?

If this thread is not intended to offend anyone, then why did you post it? No matter how you would've worded it, this thread DOES offend by its very nature. You want sympathy from other "wealthy Mac lovers" to justify your silly notions on parts manufactured by outside vendors. In your opinion McIntosh also needs to build their own parts supply bins of printed circuit boards, resistors and diodes, even sheet metal screws and nuts! Tell all of us what manufacturer anywhere in the world does THAT?

Make your point (if you have one), or stay out of the forum!
 
FWIW, Mac's build quality has never been better, That's why I own over $500,000 of it. Hey Ron, did I tell you I just bought a summer home in Cape Cod? You know what that means, a whole new Home Theater to build. Wait till you hear my plans for that one. I'll get Ken involved as he lives in Boston. Take Care, Ivan
 
He's entitled to his opinions....assanine as they may be......I dont take offfence. I just look and listen to my Mc rack and smile....

Artie


:lurk:
 
jrsystems said:
Sam, I think you've started a lynch mob.
Click to expand...
No.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. This is not personal either.

However, the basic premise and some of the comments are just plain wroing. Of course people are going to jump-up and say NOT.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom