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Wharfedale Owners Thread

Brian said:
Not really, you are getting there. Only need the mids now and ready for the rebuild. Congrats.
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I never heard the Dovedale in person, but someone put up a video on YouTube of a pair of them with I don't know what amp, and it sounded like a nicely-recorded video of some hi-end speaker I never heard of. I was surprised. Real smooth response and open-sounding. The Dovedale III's probably cost a nice chunk of change back in the day.

I've got Wharfisheritis at the moment... Very-contageous... (Listening to Phish's "Picture Of Nectar" through the W90's :D ). I relocated the Fisher to a more-luminous spot higher up. Looks way-better up high with some light on that wood case (I like the way it looks with the metal grill off).

Just put on disc one of Neil Young's "Decade"... I love the old non-remastered NY CD's... They have that musical sound that jives well with Wharfies.

Nice to see this thread has become a permanent fixture of sorts.
 
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I just picked up a pair of Wharfedale Glendale XP2 at gw. I haven't tested them yet but I was wondering what I should listen for / look for as far as condition. The cursory exam showed a decent veneer and intact screen on both with no noticeable damage to the drivers. What vintage are these? How should they be driven? Thanks!
 
djeclypse said:
i just picked up a pair of wharfedale glendale xp2 at gw. I haven't tested them yet but i was wondering what i should listen for / look for as far as condition. The cursory exam showed a decent veneer and intact screen on both with no noticeable damage to the drivers. What vintage are these? How should they be driven? Thanks!
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djeclypse said:
I just picked up a pair of Wharfedale Glendale XP2 at gw. I haven't tested them yet but I was wondering what I should listen for / look for as far as condition. The cursory exam showed a decent veneer and intact screen on both with no noticeable damage to the drivers. What vintage are these? How should they be driven? Thanks!
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Just make sure the rubber surrounds on the woofers look okay and that you have output from each driver. Replace the caps, and that's pretty-much it. Those were made in the '70's. I haven't figured out the XP series quite yet. In other words, I always assumed that the 3XP or XP3 series was the cheapest of the bunch and the XP's (no number) were the nicest/most-expensive, but I wonder if it was more of a chronological thing, as in the 3XP's being the last of them rather than the least of them. Anyway, figure on yours being mid '70's, maybe '74-'75, but that's a guess.

One thing that might interest you guys... Ever notice how the XP models use mids and tweeters that look like they were designed/manufactured by Leak? Well, the XP series was a direct result of the Rank Group's purchase of Leak when Harold Leake retired in 1969 (Rank, who owned Wharfedale at the time, decided it was a wise idea NOT to market two high-end brands simultaneously, so in their infinite wisdom, they decided to market Wharfedale as a MID-fi brand and have Leak be their sole high-end speaker brand, and from that came the ****dale 3 and XP/XP2/XP3 models, not to mention the W*0E series, which signalled the end of the sand-filled construction).

Try them with solid-state OR tubes. Something on the warmer side should open them up, something with some life to it.
 
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And moment of bliss. After a week of equipment failures, I Mean sitting back listening to Beethoven Pastoral Symphony, Symphony No. 1, a cassette playing on the Tandberg TCD310 through the Sherwood S9500c and W70s.

Screw worrying about interconnects, esoteric capacitors, speaker cables, or the missing 10hz or 50khz frequencies, blah, blah, blah.

Just needed to wrap myself in some satisfying, enjoyable, involving music and distress. The W70s get me there better than the KLH Fives or Heresy IIs. I think that may be telling.

The Fives with controls flat are more dynamic and mids more emphasized. I turned the mid control to decrease and the high end was too much so I turned it down, also. Overall balance is better throughout the frequency range. I then realized what was happening, I was trying to get the Fives to sound like the W70s with the control set mid position. Even with the Fives controls set in various combinations, against the W70s the drivers while very good in their integration and transition are not doing as well when coating them to the W70s though when not the Fives are really fine and need not make any excuses. Finally stopped playing, switched to the Wharfedales, admitted that between the 2, the W70s are winning this day. The HIIs are not hooked into the system, being run on something else for now.

For the W90 guys, don't fret not having the Wharfedale legs. I have them with the W70s and there is not enough lift to make a meaningful difference. I tried mine and finally just stored them. Maybe in a room where I would be much further from them they might make a difference. I do have a hard floor. If having carpet, maybe they also would need more effective.
 
Brian said:
And moment of bliss. After a week of equipment failures, I Mean sitting back listening to Beethoven Pastoral Symphony, Symphony No. 1, a cassette playing on the Tandberg TCD310 through the Sherwood S9500c and W70s.

Screw worrying about interconnects, esoteric capacitors, speaker cables, or the missing 10hz or 50khz frequencies, blah, blah, blah.

Just needed to wrap myself in some satisfying, enjoyable, involving music and distress. The W70s get me there better than the KLH Fives or Heresy IIs. I think that may be telling.

The Fives with controls flat are more dynamic and mids more emphasized. I turned the mid control to decrease and the high end was too much so I turned it down, also. Overall balance is better throughout the frequency range. I then realized what was happening, I was trying to get the Fives to sound like the W70s with the control set mid position. Even with the Fives controls set in various combinations, against the W70s the drivers while very good in their integration and transition are not doing as well when coating them to the W70s though when not the Fives are really fine and need not make any excuses. Finally stopped playing, switched to the Wharfedales, admitted that between the 2, the W70s are winning this day. The HIIs are not hooked into the system, being run on something else for now.

For the W90 guys, don't fret not having the Wharfedale legs. I have them with the W70s and there is not enough lift to make a meaningful difference. I tried mine and finally just stored them. Maybe in a room where I would be much further from them they might make a difference. I do have a hard floor. If having carpet, maybe they also would need more effective.
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Regarding the legs, I would have to agree... Sorta... But yes.... Kinda'. :D

In the review in Hi-Fi/Stereo Review for the original W90, they stressed the issues the Super 3 had in the W90 when sitting on the floor (July '63). The highs were there, as was confirmed in testing, but somehow they were just not getting to the reviewer's ears. The next paragraph proceeded to highlight the dramatic improvements they heard when they added the optional pedestals, which only add an extra four inches of height. They referred to it as "almost magical". In my case, however, four inches would not he enough. I found they were best with an extra TEN inches added, but keep in mind, my listening spot is a couch. With some old Stones or Hendrix spinning on the Dual 1019, it's the sweetest sound I've ever heard... The Dual adds an additional layer of life and musicality that really sends the W90's into the stratosphere. Never heard anything like it. They are a go for negative return (They're just a dot :d ).

Those W70 legs look sweet though... A pair of the early ones with walnut veneers and those legs is just about the prettiest thing ever... The W90's don't look bad either...

"Rubberband man... Rubberband man..."
 
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Sitting far enough away from the speakers could make them useful but I sit fairly close and would guess a lift of 10-12" would work. I have them angled up at an angle that puts the tweeters online with my ears when seated. I have the same with the KLH and use the Crites risers with the Heresys as mine had neither type of the original optional Klipsch risers.
 
Brian said:
Sitting far enough away from the speakers could make them useful but I sit fairly close and would guess a lift of 10-12" would work. I have them angled up at an angle that puts the tweeters online with my ears when seated. I have the same with the KLH and use the Crites risers with the Heresys as mine had neither type of the original optional Klipsch risers.
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I've seen the W70's with the legs, and like I said, I think they look beautiful. From what I've read about the W90's, they referred to the riser as a "pedestal", so I assume it's different than what they had for the W70's. A one-piece deal, I'm guessing, with legs underneath it's base (According to Hi-Fi/Stereo Review, the dealers and factory reps used to demo the W90's that way, up off the floor, and I bet those were some great demos. Still just a 4" lift though. I like mine at their current 10" height. With a horizontal mid/tweeter array, I figure the height is also good if I want a tall soundstage, even though mine are highboys rather than lowboys.

I know what you mean about the W70's... You get hooked on them... like a drug... Give them a wee bit of volume, and suddenly everything tightens up, opens up, FATTENS up, and smoothes out. And that's when you get that righteous soundstage (I know this because the W90's AND W60's are both like that). Classic-rock heaven. And yours must have the woofers and midwoofers running full-range like mine. I still never expected them to outlive the Bozaks in your setups. I wonder if the oil caps had anything to do with that. A local friend of mine has a full-on digital studio in his basement, both rooms acoustically-treated, and I was planning on spending a few days over there soon, so I've been thinking about the two of us hauling the W90's over there so we can spend a few days turning those puppies out (He's crazy about 'em, so I bet he'd be into it). Really give 'em a good workout. It's hard for me to do that here because of the neighbors. Would be a blast for sure.
 
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My W-70's are in real nice condition, they only had a 4uf cap to replace in the crossover. I decided to get 10% oil caps from Bulgaria for them, it was not a good choice since they sounded horrible over time. I went back to a Dayton 5% poly and they are doing great. They didn't have oil caps in these when new, guess these 10% oil caps are not the way to go.
 
RS Steve said:
My W-70's are in real nice condition, they only had a 4uf cap to replace in the crossover. I decided to get 10% oil caps from Bulgaria for them, it was not a good choice since they sounded horrible over time. I went back to a Dayton 5% poly and they are doing great. They didn't have oil caps in these when new, guess these 10% oil caps are not the way to go.
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Wow, that's odd... I know several people who used the 5% or 2% ones and reported amazing results. I used n.o.s. US-made Sprague and Sangamo oils in my W90's. I can't remember where Brian got his, but Crestwood23 I think went with the 2% Russian ones (I assume yours were the n.o.s. Russian ones from that Fleabay dealer in Bulgaria... There are several dealers on there who sell the KBG's).

I can't remember... Were the drivers in yours alnico? I ask because those are the ones that seem to be the most-finicky about caps. The ceramic-loaded Wharfedales not so much. Don't know why that is, but with my alnico W90's and Brian's alnico W70's, the Dayton and Solen poly caps added a glare that made them more-fatiguing and really-stifled their potential. Must be related to those magnet structures in some weird way. Wish I knew why.
 
Gang-Twanger said:
Wow, that's odd... I know several people who used the 5% or 2% ones and reported amazing results. I used n.o.s. US-made Sprague and Sangamo oils in my W90's. I can't remember where Brian got his, but Crestwood23 I think went with the 2% Russian ones (I assume yours were the n.o.s. Russian ones from that Fleabay dealer in Bulgaria... There are several dealers on there who sell the KBG's).

I can't remember... Were the drivers in yours alnico? I ask because those are the ones that seem to be the most-finicky about caps. The ceramic-loaded Wharfedales not so much. Don't know why that is, but with my alnico W90's and Brian's alnico W70's, the Dayton and Solen poly caps added a glare that made them more-fatiguing and really-stifled their potential. Must be related to those magnet structures in some weird way. Wish I knew why.
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I would be wary of any NOS capacitors of that age. I'd be surprised the results would be consistent - they could say it's NOS and then not truly be NOS.. I mean, who knows the history on them and how they were stored, etc.?

Plus there's the fun thing in audio we all love so much called preference and subjectivity. :D
 
tyeeslayer said:
Hey, this area reserved for Wharfedale Owners only.
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:D

That's OK... He used to own a pair. ;)

Oddly-enough, the ones you had were the same internally as the ones Brian has. All-alnico and all that.

When I put the oil caps in my W90's, the response of the Super 3 tweeters was quite-noticeably-improved. And the OVERALL response from top to bottom was much-more-relaxed. It wasn't so-noticeable with my Sansui because that receiver has a warmer sound than the Fisher. For a while, I had wondered if maybe the W90's were just too-big for the room, but that idea got thrown out the window after I put in the oils. I've been listening to it since last winter, and I've been loving every minute of it (except for that period when I the Fisher was being worked on... Tube upgrades, a few other parts replaced, and general adjustments). And my ears have been especially-sensitive over the past year and a half because of my a-hole neighbors (My ears got temporarily-damaged... Especially the left one... Long story, but their time is coming very-soon).

The oil caps I used were 600VDC and 1000VDC. The higher the voltage rating, the better the cap (Check out the oil caps they used on residential power lines and apartment buildings back in the day... Serious stuff). If a 600-1000VDC oil cap is still testing within it's rated uF tolerance (+/- whatever percent) after 50 years, I don't see it having a problem in the crossover of a speaker getting 40wpc or less. I might sweat a little with a 50-100VDC oil cap, but not with these.
 
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The accessory legs I am referring are the ones advertised as pedestals in the advertisements. Not one piece but two endpieces with dowels going between them. Little brackets on the back to secure them to the back of the speakers. The ads I have seen mention they are for the W90s. They just fit edge to edge under the W70s.

My oil caps are old pulls from test equipment and are glass encapsulated caps. Can not remember the tolerance but each was within .2mfd of the 2 mfd rating so within 10%. I got 4 2 mfd caps and each was measured by the seller. In mating them I ended up with 1 pair at 4.0 and the other at 3.9 good enough for government work. Are US made and bought from a US seller.

Seems odd a pio will sound bad. Having come from Bulgaria I wonder if a knockoff. Did you test them? The pio caps in those days were no where near +/- 10% so doubt that was the problem. They may have been way off of spec, also.

I originally put polys in the W70s and the result was outstandingly terrible. Like tuning fingernails across the chalkboard. It might be acceptable for rock fans and persons in love with tizzy high end. Nothing like they were designed to sound like. Now they are so smooth, involving and enjoyable they are distracting me from other speakers.
 
Gang-Twanger said:
Wow, that's odd... I know several people who used the 5% or 2% ones and reported amazing results. I used n.o.s. US-made Sprague and Sangamo oils in my W90's. I can't remember where Brian got his, but Crestwood23 I think went with the 2% Russian ones (I assume yours were the n.o.s. Russian ones from that Fleabay dealer in Bulgaria... There are several dealers on there who sell the KBG's).

I can't remember... Were the drivers in yours alnico? I ask because those are the ones that seem to be the most-finicky about caps. The ceramic-loaded Wharfedales not so much. Don't know why that is, but with my alnico W90's and Brian's alnico W70's, the Dayton and Solen poly caps added a glare that made them more-fatiguing and really-stifled their potential. Must be related to those magnet structures in some weird way. Wish I knew why.
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Yeah, those are the caps I received. Sounded ok at first, but over a few days the response changed. I put the Daytons back in and all is good. Mine do have the alnico drivers, one woofer had been replaced with a non alnico so I found a correct one and installed it.
 
RS Steve said:
Yeah, those are the caps I received. Sounded ok at first, but over a few days the response changed. I put the Daytons back in and all is good. Mine do have the alnico drivers, one woofer had been replaced with a non alnico so I found a correct one and installed it.
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Yeah, that's weird... My results were just like Brian's... Smooth, natural, open-sounding... Strident-free... And the Super 3's dispersion was noticeablyn-better somehow... And these were SIGNIFICANT improvements... No grey area about it.

Perhaps it was the caps like Brian said, ... I don't know what the 10%'ers are like, but the ones that Crestwood bought were top-notch... Might have even been 2% KBG's, but certainly weren't any higher than 5% and n.o.s.... He posted pics of them, and they were the real deal. Looked like they were pulled from a crate of them... Stockpiles left over from the early c.w. days... Highest quality... And mine were US-made n.o.s.'s from the '50's and early '60's... Sangamo (tweeters) and Sprague (mids)... I had been told by someone knowledgeable to put the best ones on the mids (if you have mids that use a cap)
 
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