Wharfedale W-70 Speaker Wire
- Thread starter crhblack
- Start date
Brian
An Old Geezer
The company assembled kits of Wharfedale speakers to avoid the high tariffs put on finished products. This was not uncommon back then. Much of Europe also had such a tariff well into at least the early '80s. Canada also had it. My Bozaks were kits sent into Canada where the cabinets were made to the companies specs and standards and assembled here. As for installing 2nds, there really is no such thing in speaker drivers. If they do not meet spec back then the drivers could be easily adjusted and very quickly. Later when drivers were not easily repaired they were simply stripped to their frame and put back through the assembly line. The cost was the frame and magnet assembly.
When I worked for Genesis Physics, we would send containers of kits to Europe where they were assembled in cabinets both made there and imported from the US.
A great many of these assembled Wharfedales found their way into the US through returning service personnel who bought them in the PX.
When I worked for Genesis Physics, we would send containers of kits to Europe where they were assembled in cabinets both made there and imported from the US.
A great many of these assembled Wharfedales found their way into the US through returning service personnel who bought them in the PX.
Gang-Twanger
Resident Wharfedaliophool
I was reading that "Radio People" thread, and I noticed that someone warned about putting a cap on the 10" driver, since it's totally-unprotected from low transients (This is a 2-way design, right?). I'm getting past my "pay grade" here, but I figured it was worth saying something.
That's a strange connector. I just figured it was the type they used in the Far East.
Those W70's are a lot different than my W60E's. I think mine are closer to the sound of early '70's Advents or AR's, but still retaining a lot of vintage Wharfedale character (I think a lot has to do with the change to an acoustic suspension design using a woofer with a ceramic magnet). I dig them a lot though. Very-versatile (especially with the mid and hi attenuators).
That's a strange connector. I just figured it was the type they used in the Far East.
Those W70's are a lot different than my W60E's. I think mine are closer to the sound of early '70's Advents or AR's, but still retaining a lot of vintage Wharfedale character (I think a lot has to do with the change to an acoustic suspension design using a woofer with a ceramic magnet). I dig them a lot though. Very-versatile (especially with the mid and hi attenuators).
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Brian
An Old Geezer
One of the drivers runs full range and uses the design criteria for rolling off. Can be a bit unsettling as since that period we have become used to complex crossovers. On the other hand it does mean taking care of amp choice and spl levels. I've mentioned before playing them at levels you'd consider if in an apartment with thin walls and either you really like the neighbor or your neighbor is a hulk with a short fuse who hates you and hates your music. These were the environment for which they were generally working and one reason why they tend not to lose detail at lower levels. The W70 is a 3-way design.
The E series is the last of the series and is an acoustic suspension design using drivers entirely different from the original W series and why the difference in sonic signature.
The E series is the last of the series and is an acoustic suspension design using drivers entirely different from the original W series and why the difference in sonic signature.
Gang-Twanger
Resident Wharfedaliophool
It's been very-hard for me to answer that question myself - and I still haven't. There was a W70 model that had a significantly-smaller cabinet than yours. I believe that one used a 12" alnico-magnet woofer (I can't remeber if that was 2-way or 3-way). I think that yours is a slightly-later (and I think preferred) model that uses a 15" (possibly with a ceramic magnet, but I honestly don't know - Yours may still have an earlier alnico one). It's all very, very-confusing since the Wharfedale factory was destroyed in a fire (in the '80's, I believe), and all records/archives were lost. I've been trying to figure this stuff out for the last 10 months, and I still haven't got a clue. There's so much I still don't know in regards to the early models.
I've seen all kinds of different Wharfedales over the last year or so - some with alnico woofers, some with ceramic ones, some with alnico in one cab and ceramic in the other (Stuff that looked like it was unchanged from the factory), and even cabinets with an alnico woofer AND a ceramic woofer in the same cab. It's extremely-confusing. I HAVE figured out how to identify the earlier woofers from the mid '60's (alnico OR ceramic, because I've seen earlier ones with either). There's a slight variation to the speaker cone - The inner-edge (where the surround meets the speaker cone) has a slight lip on the earlier ones while the later ones (including mine) have a smooth edge (but still with the same reversed surround). Also, there should be a "date of manufacture" written on the back of the speaker cone (at least on the mid '60's models).
One thing I know is, if you're planning on listening to a lot of different stuff, then one of the later models like the W60E or W70E would be a wiser choice. But for classical and jazz, the earlier ones are tops.
Is it possible for you to put up some front-view pictures of those things? That might help a bit.
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Brian
An Old Geezer
The W70 has several versions in several cabinet styles but the interior dimensions of each series is the same. The styles included a plain box, filigree on the front with no overhanging top and overhanging top with filigree on the front and around the overhang. The outer decoration does seem to make them larger or smaller depending on the style but the interior dimensions where it counts is the same. There were price differences as you can imagine between the cabinet styles so if you equate premium version to price alone, the enclosure with the overhanging top and filigree would be it. Soundwise there is no difference except golden ears may find issues with defraction with the overhangs. Also there was an accessory set of legs. The drivers and layout are the same except for the 2 crossovers used in the W70. The known and noted versions are the W70, W70D and W70E. However, there also seems to be undocumented W70C. The C appears to be the 2-cap x-over. Of course the D and E are not the same design as the original as they changed drivers and also cabinet design went from an open baffle to acoustic suspension.
The 2 cap version of the W70 may be in response to the use of higher powered amps that were then on the market and were possibly creating reliability issues for Wharfedale's 1 cap design.
Smaller cabinets or 2-way systems included the W60 series while there was the larger W90 that does not seem to have survived production into the acoustic suspension period.
The 2 cap version of the W70 may be in response to the use of higher powered amps that were then on the market and were possibly creating reliability issues for Wharfedale's 1 cap design.
Smaller cabinets or 2-way systems included the W60 series while there was the larger W90 that does not seem to have survived production into the acoustic suspension period.
crhblack
Active Member
Here are a couple of pics as requested. I'm still listening to these and enjoying thus far. :yes:
Attachments
Gang-Twanger
Resident Wharfedaliophool
That's a lot of info. So are you saying that ALL W70 models (or at least the W70, W70D, and W70E) have the same interior cabinet dimensions? And if so, does the same apply for the W60? How about other models?
This clears up a few things for me. And no W90D or E, huh? The cap theory makes perfect sense.
I'm surprised my ears aren't ringing after last night. 16 hours of nonstop listening (and I was giving it some volume too). I just got home, and I feel like doing it again.
:drool:
Gang-Twanger
Resident Wharfedaliophool
Thanks for putting these up. The cabs are in great shape.
One thing I noted - Obviously his is rear-loaded (not acoustic suspension, right?), yet the cabinet has the same color that mine does. Most of the earlier ones I've seen were light-colored. His cabs look a lot like bigger versions of mine. Is that grill cloth more of a blackish tone, or is it grey? I thought maybe the camera was making it look lighter than it actually is. Mine are almost a black (with maybe a tiny hint of brown - I can't tell - I'm colorblind, basically). - ***Edit - His grill cloth is more of a grey color, and lighter than my blackish ones.
P.S. - Right now, I'm about to dig into a bowl of my favorite ice cream (T.H. Cookie Dough) and I'm pumped. I'm addicted to this stuff, seriously.
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Brian
An Old Geezer
The conversion to acoustic suspension was with the D series.
I seem to remember there were 2 versions of the W90 with differing woofer setups but when I got my W70Ds decades ago, it was listed as the totl. I did not follow Wharfedales for some years but got interested in the W70s after getting the W70s a couple of years ago and having the W70Ds back when they were in production. There are owners of the W60 series onboard and maybe they can comment on their research.
I seem to remember there were 2 versions of the W90 with differing woofer setups but when I got my W70Ds decades ago, it was listed as the totl. I did not follow Wharfedales for some years but got interested in the W70s after getting the W70s a couple of years ago and having the W70Ds back when they were in production. There are owners of the W60 series onboard and maybe they can comment on their research.
crhblack
Active Member
My lighting was poor. I'm going to open them up and post some pics later this week.
Gang-Twanger
Resident Wharfedaliophool
Thanks. I figured it was the lighting. The rear-view pics that you originally put up at the beginning look a lot lighter than the front-view shots - I figured that the front-view pictures were more-indicative of your cabs' actual color. Mine have a reddish-brown tone (I'm beginning to think that the reddish tone is from aging over the years, but it could just be the way they were back then. I really don't know. I'm pretty-sure that the veneer is walnut (I assume it's a veneer), although it has the same look as Honduras mahogany (which has a reddish-brown tone as well). I don't know if walnut turns reddish as it ages - If it doesn't, then my cabs could be mahogany. They're heavy as hell though (another trait of mahogany - although if it's a mahagony veneer then it wouldn't matter). They're great cabs though. Solid as solid gets.
I've been trying to keep up with all the different info people have posted. So if I have this straight, the acoustic suspension design started with the D series, and continued with the E series (I don't even want to start mentioning the other later models like the Denton, or whatever it's called). I don't think the E series cabs are sand-filled like the mid-'60's models (going by what another knowledgable AK member said), and if that's true, I would have to wonder if the D models are not as well - since that was the start of the acoustic suspension design.
I'm trying to piece it all together. Hopefully more people will post because they're isn't much info on the Wharfedale history as a whole. And they really seem like they were a company with some integrity back in those days. As soon as I can get set-up for posting pictures, I'll be sure to put some shots of mine up. The grills are in great shape, so even with a few scratches on top of the cabs, they still look great. Right now I'm listening to pbthal's needledrop of the "Song Remains The Same" 8-sided remaster LP. Best digital version I've heard. I used to not care for that album, but now I love it. That guy has an insane turntable rig (with that Terminator tonearm he just installed).
I really wish this thread hadn't been moved to DIY.
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Quagh
Super Member
Quick question......I have a pair of W70E's and am trying vainly to get the tweeters to work properly. Tweeters work fine separately out of the cabinets.
Tweeter measure at 4 ohms.
Mid and Woof at 6 ohms.
OEM Cap #'s are:
93-6320, 50v, NP, 8uf
93-7032, 50, NP, 6uf
93-7030, 50, NP, 4uf
Pots are clean and working.
Would you folks suggest I simply replace these caps?
I'll be the first to admit I don't know a damn thing about what I'm doing but am learning. Any advice is appreciated.
Mark
Tweeter measure at 4 ohms.
Mid and Woof at 6 ohms.
OEM Cap #'s are:
93-6320, 50v, NP, 8uf
93-7032, 50, NP, 6uf
93-7030, 50, NP, 4uf
Pots are clean and working.
Would you folks suggest I simply replace these caps?
I'll be the first to admit I don't know a damn thing about what I'm doing but am learning. Any advice is appreciated.
Mark
Gang-Twanger
Resident Wharfedaliophool
Exactly how is the tweeter malfunctioning? What's the sound like? How is the soundstage? I assume you've adjusted the attenuator pots on the back for the mids and highs. Since you have the W70E's, you should have the newer dome-style tweeter (which is purple like the tweeter on the earlier models, but is able to handle more power). There's a pair of W60D's (or possibly W70D's) on the 'Bay right now, and there is a front-view picture (without the grill) so you can view the driver layout and all that. If your tweeters are not the same as the ones in the picture, then you have the dome tweeters like the ones in my W60E's. Just keep in mind that the tweeters look similar, but they're definitely different. The dome ones can handle more-power than the earlier D model tweeters (which people often end up frying because they overpowered them).
Your W70E's should have front-loaded drivers (if I'm correct) and removable, magnetic front grills. No removable backplate unlike the earlier ported models. Probably not sand-filled, although I'm not 100% sure about that.
Also, have you tried raising your W70E's off the ground about 16 inches? That makes a huge difference (corner placement really helps as well). Take a look at that picture on the "Bay that I mentioned, and make sure yours don't have any mismatched, nonstandard drivers in there. If the W70E's are anything like the 60E's then you should have some great speakers once they're dialed in. But definitely get them off the floor, as it makes a big difference.
Your W70E's should have front-loaded drivers (if I'm correct) and removable, magnetic front grills. No removable backplate unlike the earlier ported models. Probably not sand-filled, although I'm not 100% sure about that.
Also, have you tried raising your W70E's off the ground about 16 inches? That makes a huge difference (corner placement really helps as well). Take a look at that picture on the "Bay that I mentioned, and make sure yours don't have any mismatched, nonstandard drivers in there. If the W70E's are anything like the 60E's then you should have some great speakers once they're dialed in. But definitely get them off the floor, as it makes a big difference.
Brian
An Old Geezer
If by not working properly you mean they are dead or sound like sh*t, then most likely the caps are out of spec. Not abnormal for them due to age. The only other thing to consider is if the pots are clean. Fairly easy to tell, simply turn them and if not scratchy sounding through the speaker them probably okay.
uke: Brian mentioned using oil filled caps. Has anyone found these on the web?
Gang-Twanger
Resident Wharfedaliophool
I was reading through this again and I was curious how the OP made out with his W70's as well as the person who commented above (Looking at it now, I would think that either there's a loose wire or bad cap in the crossover or the mid/tweeter adjuster pots need some serious cleaning - but that's just a guess - I know almost-nothing about electronics).
Also, a little update on the W70 - On the W70D (debuted in '68), I'm pretty-sure there was a 4-way version with a 12" woofer and an 8" midwoofer - I'm guessing that the smaller midrange driver was a 5", but I'm not sure, and I think it had the fried-egg tweeter rather than the dome. At some point, at least in SOME countries like Germany, the 4-way W70D was changed to a 3-way, with the 12" replaced by a 15", and I believe the 8" was done away with altogether - I think they went with 2 5" midwoofers instead. Certainly a different animal than the 4-way model. Hopefully someone knows more about this. The W70 went through significant changes throughout it's production. I'd like to find a cheap pair of the 4-ways. Good-looking speakers, plus I think the 12" design would suit my apartment better than those 15"'s would. I have the W60E's and I'm ALREADY worried about disturbing the neighbors.
:scratch2: