Wharfedale W2 Dovedales- a new challenge (and help needed).

[ziggydave]

Hi all,
I was lucky enough to pick up a pair of completely original W2's which have been the prized possession of an old chap (from new) until he recently died. They are immaculate externally, in oiled teak veneer cabinets, and I'm definitely going to restore them if I can. (do you agree?)

Both sets of drivers are still functioning, (after cleaning the wire-wound tweeter control) but the sound is harsh around the mid-range. You can hear the potential of the bass though, almost ethereal in its roundness. A very brief inspection reveals the insides are completely original. There are simple single-order crossovers with a choke and a cap, so I will start there with new caps. (any suggestions for brand gratefully received).

The chassis' are mounted from the rear of the baffle (I have not removed them yet) and from what I can see/feel the annulus rings on the woofers appear to be rubber, certainly not foam. The rubber feels quite stiff and I'm wondering if this is part of the problem. I'm confident enough to attempt new rings if they are available.

So I'm wondering if anyone has any experience to share, of these wonderful old speakers. I believe they are the first model and probably very early 60's. I have no idea how they would sound if fully restored, but it's got to be worth a go surely? Happy to receive any and all comments and advice.
Thanks.

 

[telejunky]

Post some pics when you have a chance! They should be great when sorted. I'd start with new caps like you've said, and play them for a while to see if the surrounds loosen up.

 

[ziggydave]

Post some pics when you have a chance! They should be great when sorted. I'd start with new caps like you've said, and play them for a while to see if the surrounds loosen up.

Hi, I was confused when you said 'post some pics' then I remembered I started this post in speakers a couple of weeks ago and got no response, so I reposted in the Wharfdale thread. Apologies!

That thread has some legs so it's worth having a look there too, but for now here's progress of a sort... here they are:

IMG_0789

• ziggydave
• Sep 3, 2021

Dovedale W2's, original green almost-tweed grill cloth. Very 60's. I think we had a sofa in that...

I've cleaned and refinished the cabinets...

IMG_0791

• ziggydave
• Sep 3, 2021

Refinished teak. TBH it wasn't at all bad, just very dull. Cleaned up with spirits and scumbled...

There's a nice silver detail to the fronts, which as far as I can ascertain was only used on the W2 model. Inside is pretty basic but tidy enough..

IMG_0788

• ziggydave
• Sep 3, 2021

Tidy inside though

However, there is something strange going on, one of the bass units has been reverse wired, not by mistake but deliberately, whoever did it has actually reversed the markings in the connection plate (compare with other pic and you'll see what I mean). Don't know why, maybe it has had a new coil at some time and it was installed wrongly (is that possible? I have no idea). Once I get the caps installed (still waiting on mr postman) I'll need to do some testing they might just possibly be out of phase.

IMG_0787

• ziggydave
• Sep 3, 2021

Reversed polarity????

Other than that all I've done is add some banana connectors because the original sockets are fairly crappy affairs and very temperamental.

IMG_0792

• ziggydave
• Sep 3, 2021

Added some 4mm banana connectors for a much more reliable connection, otherwise left as original...

Now I'm waiting with bated breath for the caps to arrive. I have had time to really look at the drivers and they do seem intact and research says they are highly damped woofers so maybe that explains the stiffness, I'm more used to modern drivers wilt long-throw excursions. I'll need to see how they sound, but the surrounds are actually quite supple so they may be OK.

 

[ziggydave]

Well after a long wait, my caps finally arrived from Estonia! I have just replaced them and...transformed! So this is difficult to quantify. First, it is true, they are not bass-heavy, I rather they are bass-projecting. But the bass is, well, best I can say is it has punch, and it seems omnipresent, you can't tell where it's coming from.
The presentation from these speakers is so different than I am used to. I can be pretty certain now that there is nothing wrong with the drivers. Acoustic instruments are clear, precise, and superbly staged, vocals are articulated and everywhere! Cellos and bass instruments are so powerful. (I know, I've had to pinch myself, I can't believe I'm describing a pair of speakers probably the thick end of 55 yrs old) but honestly, I found myself snooping around the sides and back of the cabs, convinced there was somehow another port or 'something' I hadn't noticed for an additional element to spew from. Very, very strange, but beautiful, just exquisite. So different from the wallowing and deep bass of the Q55's or the restrained bass of the Q35's (that's all I have to compare them with). I can feel it in my chest rather than rumbling my belly. That's obviously the difference a well-damped 12-inch driver creates.
They are definitely much more placement-critical, (which doesn't make sense, them being front-ported), but raised 10" off the ground and given some space and they come alive. And I love them.

Thanks for all the advice fellas, now explain to me why we haven't moved on in 50 years.....

(transcript from wharfedale thread)

 

[Nat]

It may not be so much that we haven't moved in 50 years so much as what we want, and what we have, has changed.
When your speakers were built, hifi was expensive, adults had the money, and people wanted to be cultured and tasteful and rock music was barely out of its infancy. So most of the people who bought serious audio equipment were classical music and jazz listeners, and almost all of those were well acquainted with real music - what non electric instruments sound like in the venues they were meant to be played in - orchestra halls and jazz clubs. Gilbert Briggs, the founder of Wharfedale wanted his speakers to sound the way an orchestra sounds if you are in the middle of the hall, maybe closer to the front. Instruments are distinct, but the sound is blended, and there isn't the 'you are there, right in the middle of the orchestra so you can hear the flautist's every breath and hear the touch of the fingers on the violin strings that seems to be what passes for accurate reproduction now.
And when several watts was normal amplifier power, every effort was made, not to bring down the speakers frequency response peaks, but to boost the valleys. Nowadays, power is so cheap that it is much easier to minimize peaks, dropping everything to a uniform low level to get flat frequency response, but complex crossovers aren't benign in their effect on the amp, and the damped systems that have the flattest response don't always sound lively. But just play them louder!....
Nowadays, fewer people actually know what acoustic instruments sound like - the piano used to be a necessity in middle class homes, as were music lessons (and schools, perhaps especially those in poorer neighborhoods in places like New Orleans, often had very serious music classes). Not so much any more, and if there is a piano, it is usually electronic. And in an odd sort of oxymoronic situation, we seem to expect much more continuous loudness from music, while expecting the delivery system to be miniscule - earbuds being the obvious result. So a different set of biases is in play in the whole speaker market.

 

[ziggydave]

Thanks, and what you say makes sense. I play guitar, I am a lover of acoustic instruments along with rock and even funk, so the difference isn't lost on me. It just surprised me the difference in these speakers, it is as though someone turned all the compressors off. There does seem to be a much wider dynamic range. Impressive after years of iTunes.

 

[telejunky]

Very nice, and happy for you that they are working well! Wharfedales of this era sound so good because they render instruments accurately. Be careful with the volume because they don't hold up to high levels all that well.

 

[ziggydave]

. Be careful with the volume because they don't hold up to high levels all that well.

Neither do I!. Thanks for the heads up.
I'm still experimenting with placement for these, anyone got any rationale?

 

[BilboBaggins]

Nice! Those look beautiful!

What you are experiencing is the magic of Wharfedale. My first were a pair of Dovedale 3s. Very similar description of the sound. Mine had Bextreme surrounds and were quite stiff, but loosened with use. The bass was much more subtle than modern bass. I really loved the mids. Bass could have been a bit stronger.

 

[ziggydave]

Hello again,
I just had to come back a month on to report. The Dovedales have arisen! What a thing of sonic beauty these are! Everything I put through them just becomes alive. David Jackson's Saxophone (Pioneers over C, H to He remastered, Van Der Graaf Generator) takes on a quality of staccato rasp no other speaker has ever matched, like a live performance. Vivaldi (Spring) is just exquisite, strings ooze from every part of the room like they are reverberating off the concert hall ceiling with a power and glory to make you cry (such bass). I swear, The Vibraphone queers your brain and John Martyn's voice is so above your head you can smell the whiskey (Don't Want to Know - Solid Air).
The difference is just tangible, I don't understand it, the highs are ringing clear, the mid is full-on and punchy and extremely percussive, and that bass! I can't explain the bass, there is not a single superlative I can use that fits. It's absolutely full and round and very very deep, but never ever flabby or muddy. Anyone who has ever heard a double bass really plucked close up, it's reproduced just like you are there. It's physical. Remarkable.
It is that live sound! Every now and then you just hear something, a sudden kick drum, a fingernail scratch on a soundboard, a giggle in the background.

If you ever get a chance to own a pair of these do not miss it! I'm driving them with my beloved Sansui AU317 and it's a match made in heaven. If they were a woman they would be a 19 yr old Stevie Nicks, capable of making you chew your own arm off for just one more night. I'm in love again...

 

[ian_munday]

Hello again,
I just had to come back a month on to report. The Dovedales have arisen! ..

I have a pair of Wharfedale W2's and mine seem almost the same apart from my crossover.
It has a stepped attenuator instead of a pot and what appear to be paralleled polyester caps.
I may some of the resistors for lower values to give more subtle treble attenuation.
At present the speakers go from bright to dull (sound best left bright).

Normally I would change the cap for a polypropylene, but as there is no electrolytic, I am not so sure.
STC pma capacitor's (original) are installed just now.
I was also wondering about the inductor, but would need to know the value in order to replace with air cored.

The amp I am using just now is a Sansui AU-101 and the sound is quite nice.

 

[ziggydave]

I have a pair of Wharfedale W2's and mine seem almost the same apart from my crossover.
It has a stepped attenuator instead of a pot and what appear to be paralleled polyester caps.
I may some of the resistors for lower values to give more subtle treble attenuation.
At present the speakers go from bright to dull (sound best left bright).

Normally I would change the cap for a polypropylene, but as there is no electrolytic, I am not so sure.
STC pma capacitor's (original) are installed just now.
I was also wondering about the inductor, but would need to know the value in order to replace with air cored.

The amp I am using just now is a Sansui AU-101 and the sound is quite nice.

I'm so sorry Ian, I don't know why I didn't see your post when you made it! I hope you are still around. Did you get any further with these? I have never seen that configuration of using a stepped attenuator on a Wharfedale, have you any more pictures to share? Are they otherwise a standard W2/Dovedale?