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What about KG4's??

Nothing wrong with moray's advice. I took a slightly different tack, just did the caps on my 4.2's this week. There were only 3 on each, and I used Dayton 5% polys plus a non polar electrolytic for the 33 uf. They sound quite a bit better. I would like to do the diaphragms at some point and it sounds like some bracing is in order. I think I will do those before replacing inductors. Just my way of approaching it.
 
Do the brace work before the inductors as you will have the cabinet as tight and controlled as you can before you install the new inductors.. I would further suggest that you replace the diaphragms with Titanium versions before the inductors. Save the best for last and have all your ducks in a row. I don't think that you will be disappointed in any way. Good luck with the project and please keep us posted and give us the instant review when you get done. Best regards Moray James.
 
I picked up a pair of KG4s a while ago for the paltry sum of $25.00.

The guy just wanted them out of his house. Bought them without knowing anything about them.

To date, I have not had the opportunity to listen to them, as I have had to put them in storage, but I want to audition them with my Scott 299A amp.

Since I've been reading a lot on the KG4s I have audition anticipation jitters.

Soon, hopefully really soon . . .

Cheers
 
I wish I still had my kg4's. Bought them at a garage sale a while ago for $11. Had a pair of heresy 2's and needed to downsize and the kg4's went.
 
Hi
Pulled the Passive radiator to see where the crossover was and it is on the input connector plate. Pulled it. The two big ones seem simple enough. I can replace with Solen easily enough and the SEACOR 3.0 5% 250V should be simple enough (3mf I assume) but the black 33uf radial looks out of place here. That would be the same as mf correct? There is mo sign of the tiny cap that everyone says to just remove. The iron core transformer looks pretty easy to do to do any reason not to swap it out now?
The owner said that he had had the horns repaired 8 years ago. Safe to assume that they are not Crites replacements?(Note added later Definitely Phenolic, I pulled em.)
There are 4 screws that look like they hold the entire back baffle on. Do they? I was afraid to force it.
Can anyone tell me where to find a diagram of the bracing for the inside of the box. Would it go side to side and top to bottom or would it go across the diagonals?
These are so east to access for work its just like working on my old Nova! Very Sweet!!
Pictures attached of course. We love pictures.
PS this looks like it had gaskets but there is nothing now. Did it? Should I?
 

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Re you rebuild...

hey Kahoona: good for you most never turn a screw for fear I guess. I always figured if I break it then I have the opportunity to learn how to fix it. You can take a look at some pictures that I posted on a rebuild to a Quartet cabinet.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=372783&highlight=klf20&page=3 Braces should be 3x as wide as they are thick that what you should use on edge to split all your panels up the middle top too then you can use 1 inch strapping which is really 3/4"x3/4" fir or some such soft wood to tie the braces to each other side to side top to bottom and front to back. Braced across the baffle below between above the woofers. If you can arrange it so your strapping ties to itself (one piece to another) that is even better. make sure your cabinet and driver suspension is air tight 100%. good luck keep us posted. When you get all that done you can re damp and then re tune your passive. Best regards Moray James.
 
moray james said:
hey Kahoona: good for you most never turn a screw for fear I guess. I always figured if I break it then I have the opportunity to learn how to fix it. You can take a look at some pictures that I posted on a rebuild to a Quartet cabinet.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=372783&highlight=klf20&page=3 Braces should be 3x as wide as they are thick that what you should use on edge to split all your panels up the middle top too then you can use 1 inch strapping which is really 3/4"x3/4" fir or some such soft wood to tie the braces to each other side to side top to bottom and front to back. Braced across the baffle below between above the woofers. If you can arrange it so your strapping ties to itself (one piece to another) that is even better. make sure your cabinet and driver suspension is air tight 100%. good luck keep us posted. When you get all that done you can re damp and then re tune your passive. Best regards Moray James.
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Hi
Thanks for the info and the link. I see that you are somewhat renowned for your cabinet mods. Would It work if I was to use 1x4 dimensional lumber for the braces ans 1x1 straps along with some extra damping? I like the way you have placed the damping on the bracing to cut reflections. What is involved with retuning the passive though and how important is that? I am nowhere near your skill level here.
 
Hey Kahoona: thanks for the kind words but none of this stuff is new and most all of what I know came from a book or somebody a lot smarter than me. What you are suggesting would indeed work. I would not recommend it however as you will find yourself having space and volume issues. Strapping to tie adjacent panel braces to one another which are 3/4" square are more than enough and a brace of 3/4"x2.5" ply or 5/8"x 3 inch ply are fine. I generally like to leave the bottom of the cabinet alone in case I want to install a real crossover network and would like to have some easy access space to work with, the bottom of the cabinet is simple to access through the passive hole.
Retuning the passive is as simple as adding some weight to the passive. I like to use a test tone and add weight till the woofer is not moving and the passive is doing all the moving. You can usually gain a few hertz extra bass by doing this. Save that for later. Best regards Moray James.
 
Extra bass- I like the sound of that. Is ply itself better than board lumber? I ask because I am working with a hand saw and I can save cuts and have cleaner glue joints using a 1x3 rather than a 3/4"x3.5" cut piece of ply. On the other hand if the ply is sonically better I can cut the ply.
 
The credibility of his message just went out the window now that the Foo fighters are performing next to electric Mickey Mouse.......... WTF???????
 
Kahoona said:
Hi
the black 33uf radial looks out of place here. That would be the same as mf correct? ?
Click to expand...

Yes, and you can replace that with a 33 uf nonpolar electrolytic. A film cap gets very large at that rating and would be hideously expensive. This one is in the woofer circuit, hence the large value.

There is mo sign of the tiny cap that everyone says to just remove. The iron core transformer looks pretty easy to do to do any reason not to swap it out now?
Click to expand...

Dunno about that tiny one, maybe it's hiding or you have an early version. As for the inductor, you can change it out but you might want to listen to the recapped crossovers first.

PS this looks like it had gaskets but there is nothing now. Did it? Should I
Click to expand...

If you mean around the woofer, it should have a foam or rubber gasket.
 
Ply Vs solid....

Kahoona said:
Extra bass- I like the sound of that. Is ply itself better than board lumber? I ask because I am working with a hand saw and I can save cuts and have cleaner glue joints using a 1x3 rather than a 3/4"x3.5" cut piece of ply. On the other hand if the ply is sonically better I can cut the ply.
Click to expand...

Well I guess it is up to you but I would say that ply will be more stable and a little stronger but either will get the job done well enough so your call/ Never anything wrong with a little extra bass. Best regards Moray James.
 
moray james said:
Well I guess it is up to you but I would say that ply will be more stable and a little stronger but either will get the job done well enough so your call...
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Agreed. Remember, the speaker cabinets are made of plywood. Engineered lumber is always a better option that mother nature's.
 
Marine ply it will be then. I connected with Bob Crites briefly and he said that the ti tweeters and the caps in the crossover would be first and I'll go along with that. I think I can order the ti diaphragm today but I have to scrimp on the Xover and buy the Solens from PE. I see they have PolySwitches too. Should I install one now? What about Model: RXE110? The math is tricky but with 100w max and 4 ohms would that do it? My amp is around 300w.chan into 4 ohm and I could hurt something. I assume they just go inline in the + side but I need to check. Thinking of accessibility ,it would be just like me to put a brace where something else has to go back in and have to screw with it so I will brace last. Then I hope to borrow time on a table saw to cut the ply. He says don't worry about the inductor unless I hear a problem with the sound.
This should be fun!
 
Save a little bit first and buy your crossover parts and your tweeter diaphragms from Bob all at the same time. You will save enough in shipping charges to pay for the better quality caps. Spend the extra few dollars as you are not going to do this again and you will enjoy them for a long time. Personally I would also recommend that you buy some 10 or 12 gage (pref the 10) solid wire air core inductors for the woofer section. You will not regret spending any of the extra money. Everybody opens their cabinets and the first comment is where can I cut corners and what's good enough. Those kinds of comments are why you are doing this now so don't repeat history.
I would not replace the poly switches I would remove the ones that are there and simply use your own judgment as to whether you are pushing things too hard or not. The poly switches will eat up a good chunk of performance I would guess 10 - 15 % maybe more. I would not use them . You have a big amp so it is highly unlikely that you will ever be clipping the amp so you have no worries just don't push the speaker to the point of audible distortion. If it sounds distressed turn it down, it's that difficult.
Measure two or three time and cut once as they say and do dry runs of how things fit together before you install anything permanently. You can tape parts in place to see if you have adequate clearance. the real expenditure in a project like this is your time. Buy the best parts you can and donate your time and effort. There is a reward and it is well worth the cost. Best regards Moray James.
 
A good polyswitch measures right around 0.1 ohms. The loss is 0.1 divided by 8 or a bit over 1 percent. If we go to all the trouble to calculate that in db, will be extremely small and roughly equivalent to you being in your house and hearing a leaf drop in your neighbors yard.

If we are talking about the KG-4 here, the speaker needs the polyswitch. The early ones did not have them and later ones did when Klipsch got tired of replacing the diaphragms under warranty.

Now, a polyswitch does deteriorate some over time especially if it has to operate pretty often, so I would replace them during a rebuild and I would install them in the early versions that did not have them. The KG-4 uses a 0.70 amp polyswitch. Since that one is not a standard value, I would use a 0.75 amp.

Bob Crites
 
Bob I don't doubt your calculations and I do appreciate the fact that devices like the polyswitch can save a speaker from poor judgment. I will however stand by my recommendation to remove them because they do not sound good. The op would be best to try the speakers both with and without the polyswitches simply by shorting them out with a piece of wire. If the op is worried about the condition of his polyswitches then I suggest that he buy two new ones from you install them and repeat the experiment.
Polyswitches are not sonically transparent. If they were every speaker manufacturer in the world would be using them. Best regards Moray James.
 
Hi
Interesting. Sorry if I hit a bone of contention there. Both of you are very respected here and I am going to be in and out of these speakers a dozen times before they are all done inside and out so I can listen to them both ways and see. There are none in there now and I do have a pair of Polyswitches here to try. I could even stick them in with a switch and A/B them. My ancient ears might not hear a difference anyway. I truly do appreciate the help with these.
 
Not a problem...

Kahoona said:
Hi
Interesting. Sorry if I hit a bone of contention there. Both of you are very respected here and I am going to be in and out of these speakers a dozen times before they are all done inside and out so I can listen to them both ways and see. There are none in there now and I do have a pair of Polyswitches here to try. I could even stick them in with a switch and A/B them. My ancient ears might not hear a difference anyway. I truly do appreciate the help with these.
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No bones hit on my frame. I don't doubt Bob's calculations. I am making my recommendation based upon my own experience with Polyswitches. They just plain eat up too much sound quality. Be realistic and listen to what the speaker sounds like and you should never have a problem. If you blow your diaphragm you likely need bigger speakers not Polyswitches. If your networks don't have them then don't worry about it. Best regards Moray James.
 
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