What combination of gear and listening space mods finally let you remove EQ

[FOH Engineer]

This is a new thread for describing your gear upgrade path and combinations, and listening room mods and changes you have made over the years to finally enjoy an EQ free system with tonal neutrality and no listening fatigue and a satisfying hobby. It was originated by a @CelticWolf post regarding listening without EQ

I cant post it all here at once ..but my first good rig consisted of a Pioneer SA 9500 Technics SL 1900/ AT 13 EA combo, Audio Control 520 B Parametric EQ and Sansui SP 5500 Speakers. At the time 1979 I used to skip work occasionally just to listen..This story will develop over numerous posts


Please include pics of your past and present gear and listening spaces.

 

[FOH Engineer]

One quick note. This is not the place to argue over wire choices or post deragotory comments about others gear. But rather to reveal your successful experiments and failures to achieve sonic perfection in your home.
It is the place to comment on your own experiences with various components, wires, room treatments, and other factors you have tweaked for years and your input may help someone else get to the finish line a little faster.

 

[FOH Engineer]

The SA 9500 cost me $249.00 and I loved it for several years but it had a very bright character that combined with the horn loaded Sansui SP 5500's ( which cost $289.00 for the pair) was a touch to much as my ears began to mature. But this rig did have incredible dynamics and for it's time was easily the best gear I could afford. and I used this for at least 7 or 8 years.
Originally all of this was set up in an open concept condominium with no wall for 15 feet behind the speakers and a fully carpeted floor. I've never had a room with better imaging qualities, and I'd love to have a room like that these days just for audio.
to be continued....

 

[DaveVoorhis]

This is not the place to argue over wire choices or post deragotory comments about others gear.

Probably shouldn't be the place to launch yet another interminable debate about EQ vs no-EQ, either.

 

[FOH Engineer]

Probably shouldn't be the place to launch yet another interminable debate about EQ vs no-EQ, either.

Exactly, I'm more interested in the path every one has used over time to max out both the performance of their gear and the acoustic properties of their listening space..creating a satisfying experience if not their idea of sonic perfection that allows for a " No EQ Needed " combination of gear and listening space...
This is a very similar process to the one the greatest recording engineers in history have used to create world class recordings...Room acoustics, mic placement and gear that works in symetry, so that it stays out of the way of the players.

 

[FOH Engineer]

Probably shouldn't be the place to launch yet another interminable debate about EQ vs no-EQ, either.

I agree Dave, and It would be awesome to see or hear you thoughts, Ideas, and gear that brought you to where you are today.

 

[E-Stat]

Broadly speaking, there are two separate use cases: addressing room challenges and addressing individual recording challenges.

For the former. I’ve adopted a range of room treatments and experimented greatly with speaker placement while measuring the results in terms of bass linearity. I’m lucky in that I have a dedicated space. Results? Very linear response in the bottom octaves where the room has the greatest influence.

While recording quality varies, I never found EQ to really fix limitations like thin bass. Fattening what’s there is not like truly adding missing bottom octave(s) content at least for me.

YMMV

 

[FOH Engineer]

Broadly speaking, there are two separate use cases: addressing room challenges and addressing individual recording challenges.

For the former. I’ve adopted a range of room treatments and experimented greatly with speaker placement while measuring the results in terms of bass linearity. I’m lucky in that I have a dedicated space. Results? Very linear response in the bottom octaves where the room has the greatest influence.

While recording quality varies, I never found EQ to really fix limitations like thin bass. Fattening what’s there is not like truly adding missing bottom octave(s) content at least for me.

YMMV

I totally agree. Each room has it's own sonic character, either good or bad. You either tweak both the room and rig over time or you dont. Personally I think you leave the gear alone until you establish what the character of the room actually is. Excellent recordings of human voices or Piano will over time reveal it all. Tuning a room with electronic music or or fully electronic sounds is a fools errand as entirely electronic sounds have no common baseline reference regarding extrordinary quality. They are someone else's self created interpretation of a sound where as acoustic sounds and the human voice have endless actual real examples. At least for me.

 

[Tia]

This is my first "vintage" set up. AU11000 and a pair of Cornwalls. The room is our "front room", as you can see there are a few challenges namely sunlight (cosmetic), couch, speaker placement, heat vent in the floor and the room opens up to the dining room. Granted this being my first vintage set up I thought it sounded great, but after a while I became more critical and started trying different things gear wise. Did run and EQ at one point with no noticeable improvement. Probably the EQ. I then drank the Mcintosh coolaid and in came a MC2505 then a MC2105, no EQ needed for these bad boys. The Mac's were a big improvement but I wanted more.


Decided the system needed to relocate to the family room so I would have better placement options. There used to be a 3 person dual reclining couch where the Ekornes and other chairs sit. Had some friends over and they were standing behind the couch because that position seemed to be the sweet spot. By getting rid of the couch I was able to move the Ekornes back into the sweet spot. The MC2105 turned into 2 MC2200's and a C28. The Cornwalls turned into AR9's. The AR9's used to share the stage with a pair of Kappa 8's which sounded good and really filled the room, but I had an idea. To get a similar sound to the AR9's and still fill the room I asked to borrow a pair of Allison Ones. I figured if Roy Allison was in on the early AR designs, that maybe the Ones would fit the bill. I'm not sure if it's the design of the Ones, being 45 degrees (I think that's right) but the sound stage is incredible and they really compliment the 9's and vice versa. My journey is at a standstill right now, but that's ok because now I sit and listen. Oh, I still need to pry the Ones from the owners hands.
The speakers on stands and center channel are TV duty only and ran off a different amp. Extra wires have since been removed.

 

[FOH Engineer]

This is my first "vintage" set up. AU11000 and a pair of Cornwalls. The room is our "front room", as you can see there are a few challenges namely sunlight (cosmetic), couch, speaker placement, heat vent in the floor and the room opens up to the dining room. Granted this being my first vintage set up I thought it sounded great, but after a while I became more critical and started trying different things gear wise. Did run and EQ at one point with no noticeable improvement. Probably the EQ. I then drank the Mcintosh coolaid and in came a MC2505 then a MC2105, no EQ needed for these bad boys. The Mac's were a big improvement but I wanted more.
View attachment 1448421

Decided the system needed to relocate to the family room so I would have better placement options. There used to be a 3 person dual reclining couch where the Ekornes and other chairs sit. Had some friends over and they were standing behind the couch because that position seemed to be the sweet spot. By getting rid of the couch I was able to move the Ekornes back into the sweet spot. The MC2105 turned into 2 MC2200's and a C28. The Cornwalls turned into AR9's. The AR9's used to share the stage with a pair of Kappa 8's which sounded good and really filled the room, but I had an idea. To get a similar sound to the AR9's and still fill the room I asked to borrow a pair of Allison Ones. I figured if Roy Allison was in on the early AR designs, that maybe the Ones would fit the bill. I'm not sure if it's the design of the Ones, being 45 degrees (I think that's right) but the sound stage is incredible and they really compliment the 9's and vice versa. My journey is at a standstill right now, but that's ok because now I sit and listen. Oh, I still need to pry the Ones from the owners hands.
The speakers on stands and center channel are TV duty only and ran off a different amp. Extra wires have since been removed.
View attachment 1448423

Great breakdown of all of it..What impacted the overall sound quality more, the room or the gear. Or was it a confluence of feeling out the next thing needed to improve the SQ. It seems like you gave every new addition plenty of dial in time in the room it was being used in to acclimate your ears to what the issues were, before moving on to the next thing to do.

 

[Tia]

Great breakdown of all of it..What impacted the overall sound quality more, the room or the gear.

I would say the gear had the biggest impact in the beginning. At least the jump to the mac gear and AR9's. The 2105 to 2200 was just a power jump. Since I am satisfied (well almost) with the gear, room treatment/gear placement is my focus. Had the Ones on the side walls, sound stage suffered. Pushed the Ones onto the corners, same thing. This weekend I'm going to put tile underneath the Ones (probably fill the corner) and see if that releases more bass from the side firing woofers on the 9's.

 

[JoeESP9]

I've never really stopped using an equalizer. I first bought one in the late 70's and used it along with the supplied mic and an LP with test tones. Flattening my in room response was and always has been my goal. In the early 80's my first wife and I bought a house. In that house I had my first opportunity to dedicate a room just for listening. I started using room treatments and stopped using the analog octave equalizer I'd been using.

When DSP's became affordable (early 2000's) I bought a 12 band parametric DSP. It is used to flatten in room response in a dedicated acoustically treated space (not the same room from the 80's) that is my current room.

Through both iterations an equalizer has been used only to flatten in room response. Using one as a glorified tone control has never appealed to me as I don't like constantly tweaking anything. I measure using a calibrated mic and (currently) REW to help adjust the Eq's settings. Once set they are not changed unless the gear or room is changed.

 

[Grenadeslio]

This is a new thread for describing your gear upgrade path and combinations, and listening room mods and changes you have made over the years to finally enjoy an EQ free system with tonal neutrality and no listening fatigue and a satisfying hobby. It was originated by a @CelticWolf post regarding listening without EQ

I cant post it all here at once ..but my first good rig consisted of a Pioneer SA 9500 Technics SL 1900/ AT 13 EA combo, Audio Control 520 B Parametric EQ and Sansui SP 5500 Speakers. At the time 1979 I used to skip work occasionally just to listen..This story will develop over numerous posts
View attachment 1448122

Please include pics of your past and present gear and listening spaces.

Had an EQ early in this hobby with my Kenwood system. It was the introduction of a dbx3 into one of my systems that led me to question the efficacy of outboard processors for 2 channel audio. Setting all of the controls to flat and switching the dbx into and out of the signal path should have resulted in no change, but sadly this was not the case. The soundstage/imaging suffered to a degree I couldn't live with. The dbx has it's uses but it just wasn't for me, consequently I've used the same test on EQ's with similar results.

Tone controls can have a similar affect albeit to much less of a degree, and why I usually run with the tone controls defeated. Theres a reason this feature was adopted, and why many preamps don't even include tone controls.

So in answer to your question, it was more the maturation of the listener (me) that led to the removal of the EQ, my equipment was always on a level not to need one. Even as a teen in the 70's when purchasing my first home, and auto systems (before it was popular to do so) I purchased separates.

This was my car system when most were running Jensen 6X9's off their factory system. The Vanco Compact 50's were on the rear dash, these were later replaced with components in the doors.

 

[donprice]

DSP and auto-equalization software is now built-in to rather modest AVRs so many of us are running equalization without really giving it much of a thought. Throw in some constant-directivity speakers to limit room effects to get pretty decent sound considering the limited effort expended. Somehow I suspect I'm one of the few that can wash dishes in the kitchen sink from the sweet spot.

Of course this is exactly opposite the path the OP was asking about so I apologize for being a non-conformist.

 

[Blue Shadow]

I liked my system just fine using most of the preamps and power amps I have. One no tone adjustment of any kind. One tone controls I didn't use and one with a great contour control that in engage and use at about 5-10% on most of the time.

I don't give a crap about straight wire with gain, I want my rig to make music that sounds good to me. The addition of a quality tone control unit, an LRS 5F70 has moved the first preamp up a notch in sound quality in my listening. Not much crank on the controls but a slight bump on the bottom end and I don't need the crossover and sub connected.

So I guess there isn't anything I've done that has allowed me to remove tone/eq from my system.

 

[FOH Engineer]

I'm not in any way anti EQ. My idea here was to get at various methods people here on AK have tweaked and modded rigs and rooms to get to a point that EQ wasn't needed. I would never presume to suggest others how to set up their personal settings.

 

[FOH Engineer]

I liked my system just fine using most of the preamps and power amps I have. One no tone adjustment of any kind. One tone controls I didn't use and one with a great contour control that in engage and use at about 5-10% on most of the time.

I don't give a crap about straight wire with gain, I want my rig to make music that sounds good to me. The addition a of a quality tone control unit, an LRS 5F70 has moved the first preamp up a notch in sound quality in my listening. Not much crank on the controls but a slight bump on the bottom end and I don't need the crossover and sub connected.

So I guess there isn't anything I've done that has allowed me to remove tone/eq from my system.

Again, no reason to remove it. Just a cool discussion among like minded people about how they arrive at sonic bliss. If it involves no EQ that's fine but it usually takes a bit of back and forth, with layout , room treatments, cartridge change out etc. to create the type of SQ that's sounds perfect in any listening room, especially regarding using no equalization and that process and the gear changed out to achieve it is what this discussion is centered around.

 

[twiiii]

I don't have the luxury to remove the Eq's. That said the filters are never more than -4 db from O db except the 16 Khz filter and 25 hz filter.

 

[FOH Engineer]

I don't have the luxury to remove the Eq's. That said the filters are never more than -4 db from O db except the 16 Khz filter and 25 hz filter.

No need, if it sounds right right.

 

[ultumax]

One quick note. This is not the place to argue over wire choices or post deragotory comments about others gear. But rather to reveal your successful experiments and failures to achieve sonic perfection in your home.
It is the place to comment on your own experiences with various components, wires, room treatments, and other factors you have tweaked for years and your input may help someone else get to the finish line a little faster.

Are going for like what pure audio on onkyo does ? Turn off all processeing? My onkyo would need a power amp to get loud .
So you have a amplifier ? With no eq or you turn off audysee?
Impressive idea , I have tinnitus I cannot even listen to non instrumental singing without ear pain and ringing. I’m sure lots of audio or music lovers have this also .
Old stereo amps definitely had lotta equalizers.