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What do you think are the best current production vacuum tubes?

Jon S

Jon S

Super Member
Question says it all... With vintage power and pre-amp tubes getting more expensive (e.g. Mullard XF2 EL34s (NOS is extinct), Gold Lion (British) KT-88s, Tung-Sol 6SN7s, Sylvania 6SN7W-GT, etc) due to shrinking availability (tidbit: did you know the Mullard designed Japanese Matsushita 6CA7 tubes were only $5 when released in the 1950s? Now you are looking at ~$175 each for NOS), what current production vacuum tubes do you think are the best options now?

My choices so far:
KT-88:
Gold Lion KT-88 (good sounding tube, decent soundstage)
EL34:
Mullard EL34 (good value, smooth sound);
Tung-Sol EL34B (clean, detailed and clear, a bit sterile);
Psvane Legend EL34-PH (when matched with certain tubes, these sound great with very good soundstage but with others it sounds really thin);
Psvane ART 6CA7-T3 (Very clean and clear, superb transients, weak bass, poor QC),
Electo Harmonix EH 6CA7 (a very good budget tube)
6SN7:
Tung-Sol 6SN7-GTB (clean but sterile sound, no choice, just about the only one out there)
6SL7:
Tung-Sol 6SL7-GTB (clean but sterile sound, no choice, just about the only one out there)
12AU7: Gold Lion B749/12AU7 (probably the best Russian pre-amp tube, measures great);
Psvane ART Series 12AU7-S* (very clean sound with very good soundstage);
Apos Ray 12AU7* (A bit better than their Psvane counterpart, these are more expensive selected tubes)
12AX7: Gold Lion B759/12AX7 (another good Russian tube, measures great);
Psvane ART Series 12AX7-S* (another excellent sounding tube)

My rejects:
12AU7:
Mullard 12AU7 (mediocre sound);
Tung-Sol 12AU7 (mediocre sound)
12AX7:
Mullard 12X7 (mediocre sound);
Tung-Sol 12AX7 (mediocre sound)
EL34:
Psvane 6CA7-Z Treasures (flat sounding, no soundstage)
KT-88:
Psvane KT-88-Z Treaures (flat sounding, no soundstage)

*IMHO, the Psvane ART 12AU7-S and 12AX7-S and Apos Ray 12AU7 tubes are the best sounding tubes of their type with some qualifictions. The Psvane ART 6CA7-T3 is an excellent sounding tube, very detailed and clean. Of course, the sound of these tubes are also amplifier dependent as well as dependent on their paired counterparts. My reference is the Willsenton R8 and the Muzishare X7 amplifiers.

OTOH, what brands of tubes do you find to be a disappointment or do not touch?

Of course there are other tubes (EL84, 300B, 6l6GCM, 845, et al) out there but these are the only ones I use.

Haven't tried any Shuguang tubes, so no opinions on them. Psvane actually makes decent top end tubes but their quality control really is abysmal. Their tube "matching" and measurements are abysmal and tube reliability is also questionable. I have measured my collection of Psvane tubes and they do not even come close to their included measurement "certificates". I have had two Psvane tubes fail after a few months. The only way to get decent measuring Psvane tubes is through a third party tube seller who measures said tubes before sales (but they only carry a limited line of tubes), forget most tubes sold through Amazon.

I do have to give the Chinese manufacturers credit. At least they are releasing newer (albeit more expensive) designed tubes (e.g. Psvane Summit and ART series), unlike New Sensor's Russian (Mullard, Tung-Sol, Electro Harmonix, Svetlana, Gold Lion, Telefunken and Sovtek) tubes which are based on the same design since inception. I think if the Chinese decided to improve their quality control they would be unbeatable. Right now, I think they sell everything they produce except for dead tubes. Buyers normally have no way of verifying their measurements or quality.
 
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Jon S said:
My rejects:
12AU7:
Mullard 12AU7 (mediocre sound);
Tung-Sol 12AU7 (mediocre sound)
12AX7:
Mullard 12X7 (mediocre sound);
Tung-Sol 12AX7 (mediocre sound)
EL34:
Psvane 6CA7-Z Treasures (flat sounding, no soundstage)
KT-88:
Psvane KT-88-Z Treaures (flat sounding, no soundstage)
Click to expand...
Pretty big reject list.
Did you measured those tubes characteristics? May be you just have a bad tubes or slightly different working conditions? For EL34, KT-88 did you measured max cut off current (emission test)?
EL34 pdf as example:
Are you available to reach 175 mA? What is your Ug1 at 175mA? Some new tubes needs up to 50 hours to reach designed characteristics.
 

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TriodeLuvr said:
Chinese tubes aside, I think it's more important who you buy from. A reputable seller like AES will stand behind them if there's a problem.

Jack
Click to expand...
Spot on. The PSVane tubes I've bought via Amazon have been poor quality as far as matched sections go and emissions (+ one DOA and one not even the correct tube). Amazon takes them back, but have learned that buying tubes from a seller that screens them is worth the price.
 
You might want to put some hours on the TungSol 6SN7's.
They do sound a bit sterile right out of the box. But once you get around 50 or more hours on them they open up and sound pretty good.
 
I pretty much agree with this list, as far as my experience goes. I would add the Gold Lion KT66, a very nice-sounding tube. The Chinese version, even selected, is very coarse by comparison and produces less power and more distortion.

You left out the 6L6GC. There are some pretty good ones being made now, largely thanks to our musician friends. ;-)
 
I have good luck with 6SN7s from APOS Audio- their Ray Select tubes are pretty good (SQ is much better than my Russian Tung-Sols)

apos.audio

Ray Tubes 6SN7 SELECT Vacuum Tube

Experience the warmth and clarity of vacuum tube sound with the Ray 6SN7 Select, a hand-selected and rigorously tested tube chosen by audiophiles, for audiophiles. Crafted to surpass the unpredictable quality of New Old Stock, this brand-new tube combines the best of traditional materials with...
apos.audio apos.audio
 
So far I see an omission of JJ tubes, I've had have some really good power & preamp tubes from them and the set prices are excellent. They even offer several different kinds of EL-34's and other tubes, read their descriptions. I still have tons of Blackburn XF2's and Matsushita 6CA7's; and I really recommend checking them out. Euro tubes also offers extensive and accurate tube matching, shows priced sets up to octet's. Eddie at Euro tubes (distributor) has been extremely helpful, very knowledgeable and knows high end audio needs.

 
krautmaster said:
I have good luck with 6SN7s from APOS Audio- their Ray Select tubes are pretty good (SQ is much better than my Russian Tung-Sols)

apos.audio

Ray Tubes 6SN7 SELECT Vacuum Tube

Experience the warmth and clarity of vacuum tube sound with the Ray 6SN7 Select, a hand-selected and rigorously tested tube chosen by audiophiles, for audiophiles. Crafted to surpass the unpredictable quality of New Old Stock, this brand-new tube combines the best of traditional materials with...
apos.audio apos.audio
Click to expand...
are those psvane rebrands? i know some of their tubes are.
 
Flyman said:
Pretty big reject list.
Did you measured those tubes characteristics? May be you just have a bad tubes or slightly different working conditions? For EL34, KT-88 did you measured max cut off current (emission test)?
EL34 pdf as example:
Are you available to reach 175 mA? What is your Ug1 at 175mA? Some new tubes needs up to 50 hours to reach designed characteristics.
Click to expand...
I listened to the tubes at least a hundred hours (I'm retired so I have the stereo on a few hours a day)... I have tested all my tubes using MaxiMatcher II/MaxiPreAmp II tube testers. I am in the midst of moving my speakers in the listening room and finding out that even an inch or so can make some significant improvements/degradation in the soundstage. Moving the speakers about four feet from the front and side walls really gives you a wall of sound effect.

I am also realizing that synergy between different tubes can make a significant effect in the sound. When I first got my Psvane ART 6CA7-T3/6SN7-T3 tubes, I thought they were pretty flat. But pairing the ART 6CA7-T3s with RCA "smoked glass" 6SN7/6SL7 tubes made a big improvement, with tighter bass and with clarity and detail. But using the same RCA tubes with the Psvane 6CA7-T Treasures offered no improvement in sound. I also like pairing power tubes with Sylvania metal base 6SN7W-GT and 6SL7-WGT tubes for a smoother sound but with a slight loss in soundstage and bass. Even the shrill OEM Willsenton KT88/EL34 tubes sound better with the RCAs and Sylvanias.

Using current production Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB/6SL7s with the Tung-Sol EL34B gives an extremely clean sound with some detail but the sound is quite sterile, like a solid state amplifier, lacking the warmth of tubes.

Using vintage Tung-Sol "Black Glass" 6SL7s with the round micas also sounds detailed with the addition of depth and warmth. Another clean sounding tube is the RCA "Red base" 6922/6SL7 tubes.

I have a quad of Mullard XF2 EL34s and so far, they are the best tubes I have heard but obtaining more is either too expensive or getting really well-used worn-out tubes from eBay. I find the Mullard designed Matsushita 6CA7 from the 1950s to also be excellent tubes, nearly matching the real Mullards in sound quality and imaging. Unfortunately, the Matsushita's quality is pretty abysmal. I have bought NOS tubes that measure plate voltages anywhere from 36-50 mA. Most used Matsushita tubes that I have bought measure around 20 mA even with high emission values, bordering on dying. Thankfully I was able to return them.

I also have a sextet of British Genalex Gold Lion KT-88s that measure very well between 42.2-43.7 mA. They sound great in the Willsenton R8 but dead in the Muzishare X7, showing how amplifier topology can affect the sound.

Another decent tube is the Aspen Pitman's Groove Tubes EL34M, a Chinese knock-off of the Mullard EL34s (note that Groove Tubes made several different iterations of EL34s, only the EL34M is recommended). Brent Jessee has said they are the best EL34s other than the real Mullards. I would not go that far but they are very good tubes. NOS EL34Ms can be found at very reasonable prices (~$50/tube) from Great Britain. The tubes are sold in matched sets and have proven to be very nice and smooth sounding. Their tube matching is also very good. I have three quads and each quad measures only 2 mA from each other.
 
Jon S said:
Another decent tube is the Aspen Pitman's Groove Tubes EL34M, a Chinese knock-off of the Mullard EL34s (note that Groove Tubes made several different iterations of EL34s, only the EL34M is recommended).
Click to expand...
groove tubes did not manufacture, but they bought, tested and rebranded a lot of tubes. i think they they had shuguang make a coupla exclusive variants for them to sell, one of them being the EL34M.
 
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ceylon said:
are those psvane rebrands? i know some of their tubes are.
Click to expand...
Apos Ray tubes are all Psvane sourced tubes. They are supposedly sourced from selected tubes that measure in the top 5% of certain models and some are custom made. They are all quite expensive, about 50% higher than their corresponding Psvane ilk. I have a pair of Apos RAY 12AU7 tubes and they do offer some sonic improvement of the Psvane ART 12AU7-S tubes. Whether you want to pay an additional 50% is up to the buyer. You are getting in the area of diminishing returns. What I don't understand is that the price of a quad is higher than the price of a single tube on a unit basis.

The Apos RAY KT-88 Reserve tubes looks like a Psvane KT-88-TII tube which costs ~$430/quad. The Apos RAY KT-88 sells for $230/tube but $1130/quad, nearly triple the Psvane. Similarly, the Apos Ray Select EL34 ($200/each or $1000/quad) looks similar to the Psvane ART 6CA7-T3 ($400/quad)
 
Jon S said:
Apos Ray tubes are all Psvane sourced tubes. They are supposedly sourced from selected tubes that measure in the top 5% of certain models and some are custom made. They are all quite expensive, about 50% higher than their corresponding Psvane ilk. I have a pair of Apos RAY 12AU7 tubes and they do offer some sonic improvement of the Psvane ART 12AU7-S tubes. Whether you want to pay an additional 50% is up to the buyer. You are getting in the area of diminishing returns. What I don't understand is that the price of a quad is higher than the price of a single tube on a unit basis.

The Apos RAY KT-88 Reserve tubes looks like a Psvane KT-88-TII tube which costs ~$430/quad. The Apos RAY KT-88 sells for $230/tube but $1130/quad, nearly triple the Psvane. Similarly, the Apos Ray Select EL34 ($200/each or $1000/quad) looks similar to the Psvane ART 6CA7-T3 ($400/quad)
Click to expand...
ouch. not for me, but they are giving people what they want.
 
JJ ECC803 (long plate version of their regular 12AX7 / ECC83) are fantastic in my Erhard Audio Aikido line stage. I had Dynaco labeled smooth plate Telefunken in there and assumed it was about the best I was going to get. The JJs showed up in one of Tube Depot's reoccurring daily sales, so on a whim I bough a quad. I swapped them in for a test run replacing the Tele's. I was pretty surprised at the fact I could not tell the difference. If anything the JJs have a bit more "sparkle". I have tried various other tubes in this preamp, OS and New issue, and could hear differences. I bought a second quad as spares. The JJs are still installed and I have no desire to try anything else, the Telefunkens remain on the shelve until I decide to give then a try again. No rush to.

I've liked many tubes I've tried, but can say I have never been "blown away" at the few legendary OS tubes I've tried when comparing them to same type new issues. The cool / authenticity factor certainly comes in to it, I guess, but if it works...
 
SS904 said:
JJ ECC803 (long plate version of their regular 12AX7 / ECC83) are fantastic in my Erhard Audio Aikido line stage. I had Dynaco labeled smooth plate Telefunken in there and assumed it was about the best I was going to get. The JJs showed up in one of Tube Depot's reoccurring daily sales, so on a whim I bough a quad. I swapped them in for a test run replacing the Tele's. I was pretty surprised at the fact I could not tell the difference. If anything the JJs have a bit more "sparkle". I have tried various other tubes in this preamp, OS and New issue, and could hear differences. I bought a second quad as spares. The JJs are still installed and I have no desire to try anything else, the Telefunkens remain on the shelve until I decide to give then a try again. No rush to.

I've liked many tubes I've tried, but can say I have never been "blown away" at the few legendary OS tubes I've tried when comparing them to same type new issues. The cool / authenticity factor certainly comes in to it, I guess, but if it works...
Click to expand...
thats good to hear. i just picked up a quad of these in gold pins at half price, and i have yet to put em to work.
 
ceylon said:
are those psvane rebrands? i know some of their tubes are.
Click to expand...
They may be Psvane or Shuang, they don't specify and won't tell (pretty sure they are Psvane). They have heavy ceramic bases and very thick glass, make no noise, and no microphonics: I can give them a hard whack and they don't make a peep, I can drum on the preamp case and not get any sound. I had these tested (bought them as a quad) and they are all within 1%. They have been played for 5-6 hours a day, 4-5 days a week since last November without any issues.

I have a set of Psvane Horizons (6SN7/ CV-181 AT) that sound wonderful, but they are a little microphonic- I can hear when I drum on the preamp case and light tapping when I give the tube a whack. These were bought in sets of two and the two tubes in a set tested within 5% of each other, but one set has a lot more power so those two are in the gain stage.
 
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krautmaster said:
I have good luck with 6SN7s from APOS Audio- their Ray Select tubes are pretty good (SQ is much better than my Russian Tung-Sols)

apos.audio

Ray Tubes 6SN7 SELECT Vacuum Tube

Experience the warmth and clarity of vacuum tube sound with the Ray 6SN7 Select, a hand-selected and rigorously tested tube chosen by audiophiles, for audiophiles. Crafted to surpass the unpredictable quality of New Old Stock, this brand-new tube combines the best of traditional materials with...
apos.audio apos.audio
Click to expand...
That would run me $250 to retube my preamp.
 
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