What do you think are the best current production vacuum tubes?

[Mybig8ohm]

mine gets real hot, and i vented my chassis a bit more. i usually take the lid off.

I hooked the tubes4hifi version ST35 into the living room with my Fritz bookshelves. A little bit of noise from the amp thru the speakers though..power supply or transformer fuzz it sounds like.

I took the tubes4hifi SP13 pre off the patio & hooked it to their el84 amp. For the price of these 2 pieces I think it sounds pretty dang good. I'm impressed by the soundstage focus & space. Using a Laiv uDac at the moment.

I switched out the tubes with new JJ's for now since I was able to get those shipped in 2 days. The question I wanted to ask you was if your amp was dead quiet or do you have some audible noise floor? The power tubes are pretty close to the toroids & I was wondering if that could be an area of noise pick up. If I put my phone noise meter up on the speakers it's like 43db of noise floor. I can't hear it at the seat but I'm not used to this.

 

[geode]

My setup is a Tubes4HiFi SP14 preamp loaded with 2 Sylvania 6sN7GTB Chrome Domes in gain position and 2 RCA Blackplates as PI tubes. When I first built the preamp it came with Tungsol 6SN7GTB tubes. I recall they sounded fine. The VTA ST-120 power amp with octal board I have used/am using Tungsol KT120 and now a quad of JJ Kt88. I think they sound as good as the KT120s. The three pre tubes were Tungsol 6SN7GTB that I replaced with a nice KenRad VT-231in the center position and 2 RCA Blackplates as PI tubes. My Elekit TU8850SE uses 2 KT120 Tungsol and I bought 2 JJ EC802S which sounded pretty good. They too, have been replaced with a pair of RCA Blackplates. I have also used a quad of Genelex KT88 Gold Lions and was pleased with them even though one of then Nova'd on me. I have not used a Chinese tube, yet. So, the short of it is, the Tungsols, Genelex, and JJ tubes are all an option.

 

[TConnelly]

Tubes are finicky. It wouldn't surprise me if you received 2 bad tubes back to back but that would be some serious bad luck. It happens though.

Could be the auto-bias. I would email Bugera & tell them about your situation. Ask them about their bias system & what would make the amp act this way? See what they recommend as far as tubes & minimum measurements. But yeah, I would definitely send them an email..

Unfortunately Bugera doesn’t seem to have a dedicated customer service department. Perusing the Bugera website leads you - after an exhausting merry-go-round of dead links - to a page where they invite you to sign up for a forum subscription to the “Music Tribe” forum. Which seems to be hosted by Behringer, the parent company. Where I can pose my questions. I’ll go ahead and do that but I don’t hold out much hope. In my research I’ve seen run across a few threads from that forum but never found anything definitive.

Ironically the best information I’ve found came from the AccousticGuitar forum. From there I found out that the Infinium system is very picky about what tubes will work. Specifically the plate current of any given tube needs to be pretty low. The tube store.com has a rating system that they call “The Perfect Pair”. Apparently the V5 Infinium prefers tubes with their rating number down around 30 or 35. Which as I understand it is pretty much based on plate current. I might contact them and see what they say. But in the mean time I think I will just order a matched pair of JJ EL844. They are a low power version of the EL84. According to the data sheets the plate current specs for those are lower than most. Buying a matched pair should ensure that they’ve been tested. Who knows what can happen in shipping but I think that’s my best shot. Thanks for the suggestions.
Cheers…………………..Todd

 

[arts]

Unfortunately Bugera doesn’t seem to have a dedicated customer service department.

In these parts, based on reliability and service issues, that company is referred to as "Bugger Ya!"

 

[Mr Boochie]

Some folks on another site tried the JJ EL844, reset bias in their EL84 amp. They were not happy with them. Not sure what this tube really is, but the main complaints were a lack of bass and good transient response.

If you want less power, maybe rewire for the 6AQ5/6005. That tube seems to have known good audio qualities.

 

[ceylon]

Some folks on another site tried the JJ EL844, reset bias in their EL84 amp. They were not happy with them. Not sure what this tube really is, but the main complaints were a lack of bass and good transient response.

If you want less power, maybe rewire for the 6AQ5/6005. That tube seems to have known good audio qualities.

gotta get some 7-pin sockets first. might be tough to make em fit the existing holes

 

[Lavane]

gotta get some 7-pin sockets first. might be tough to mmake em fit the existing holes

Socket adaptors.

 

[knotscott]

Like many of us, my favorite complement of current production tubes are what I'm running now - Mullard re-issue CV4004 in the preamp, EH12BH7a as a driver tube, and a pair of Tung Sol 7581A (6L6 variant) in the outputs. I know it's all subjective, and every circuit treats each tube a little differently. Synergy is king when it comes to good audio gear.

Love the EH12BH7a vs any 12AU7 as a driver tube I've used so far.

Have also tried the JJ ECC803S long plates in the preamp and liked those too, but the CV4004 is a bit warmer and richer through the mids, as well a little smoother and cleaner on top. I've swapped in a single EH 12AX7 for one the CV4004, but only had the one tube, so it's really hard to identify what's it's contribution is. Thinking about maybe trying 3 more EH12AX7 so I know how they really sound. (open to suggestions here for a 12AX7 with lush midrange, and super clear treble).

I've used some EL34EH outputs, which I found to be a solid all around good value. Nesstone 6CA7s were good also, but have a bit more a the classic V-shaped eq sound...great bass, more treble. Did not really love the Shuguang 6CA7, but I might not have put enough hours on them....felt similarly with the EH 6CA7 big bottles.

The Gold Lion KT66 were my favorite output tube until I tried the Tung Sol 7581A....those are sweet and clear. Granted, my tube amps now roll off at about 60 hz, so I don't need deep bass from any of the amp tubes any longer. I recently tried some EH6550s, which I was pretty happy with....nice upper midrange and some very clean treble....it's subjective, but overall I think I prefer the rich lushness of the mids from the TS7581A. I do have some Tung Sol 6550s ordered that should be waiting for me when I come home from Maine....looking forward to hearing those.

Still waiting to give a KT88 a whirl one of these days.

 

[TConnelly]

Some folks on another site tried the JJ EL844, reset bias in their EL84 amp. They were not happy with them. Not sure what this tube really is, but the main complaints were a lack of bass and good transient response.

If you want less power, maybe rewire for the 6AQ5/6005. That tube seems to have known good audio qualities.

yeah reviews for the JJ EL844 are not all 100% positive but I’ve yet to find reviews for any tube that are. When looking at reviews I always throw out the top and bottom 10% and look at all the rest. When I do that the majority left over are pretty positive.

Thanks for the suggestion but unfortunately a schematic for the Infinium version is not available anywhere. The earlier non Infinium version is. And there are a lot of mods and upgrades discussed around the web for that. Trying to mod this thing especially without that is beyond my pay grade.

Cheers……………………Todd

 

[ceylon]

yeah reviews for the JJ EL844 are not all 100% positive but I’ve yet to find reviews for any tube that are. When looking at reviews I always throw out the top and bottom 10% and look at all the rest. When I do that the majority left over are pretty positive.

Thanks for the suggestion but unfortunately a schematic for the Infinium version is not available anywhere. The earlier non Infinium version is. And there are a lot of mods and upgrades discussed around the web for that. Trying to mod this thing especially without that is beyond my pay grade.

Cheers……………………Todd

according to the importer, "It has a very smooth sweet breakup just like the JJ EL84 but with less headroom and and slightly less overall output."

unless youre driving a guitar amp to early distortion, seems like a good tube to pass on.

but...

theres the "makes an excellent driver tube in triode mode." hmn. there is an EL84 driven SE EL84 schematic out there.

quotations from https://www.eurotubes.com/product/el844/

 

[Lavane]

Like many of us, my favorite complement of current production tubes are what I'm running now - Mullard re-issue CV4004 in the preamp, EH12BH7a as a driver tube, and a pair of Tung Sol 7581A (6L6 variant) in the outputs. I know it's all subjective, and every circuit treats each tube a little differently. Synergy is king when it comes to good audio gear.

Love the EH12BH7a vs any 12AU7 as a driver tube I've used so far.

Have also tried the JJ ECC803S long plates in the preamp and liked those too, but the CV4004 is a bit warmer and richer through the mids, as well a little smoother and cleaner on top. I've swapped in a single EH 12AX7 for one the CV4004, but only had the one tube, so it's really hard to identify what's it's contribution is. Thinking about maybe trying 3 more EH12AX7 so I know how they really sound. (open to suggestions here for a 12AX7 with lush midrange, and super clear treble).

I've used some EL34EH outputs, which I found to be a solid all around good value. Nesstone 6CA7s were good also, but have a bit more a the classic V-shaped eq sound...great bass, more treble. Did not really love the Shuguang 6CA7, but I might not have put enough hours on them....felt similarly with the EH 6CA7 big bottles.

The Gold Lion KT66 were my favorite output tube until I tried the Tung Sol 7581A....those are sweet and clear. Granted, my tube amps now roll off at about 60 hz, so I don't need deep bass from any of the amp tubes any longer. I recently tried some EH6550s, which I was pretty happy with....nice upper midrange and some very clean treble....it's subjective, but overall I think I prefer the rich lushness of the mids from the TS7581A. I do have some Tung Sol 6550s ordered that should be waiting for me when I come home from Maine....looking forward to hearing those.

Still waiting to give a KT88 a whirl one of these days.

I bought an EH 12BH7 for one of my amos and it hummed in the voltage gain socket. I then got a couple NOS 12BH7's and really like them.

 

[TConnelly]

according to the importer, "It has a very smooth sweet breakup just like the JJ EL84 but with less headroom and and slightly less overall output."

unless youre driving a guitar amp to early distortion, seems like a good tube to pass on.

but...

theres the "makes an excellent driver tube in triode mode." hmn. there is an EL84 driven SE EL84 schematic out there.

quotations from https://www.eurotubes.com/product/el844/

Thank you for your reply and for sharing your thoughts. At the risk of sending this thread further into the weeds I'd like to ask if my take on the relationship between plate current specs and thetubestore.coms "perfect pair" numbering system is accurate?

From the link to Eurotubes,
"With adjustable bias amps like the Marshall 201 and 401 or Bugera V22, Jet City or Carvin, these must be biased 25% lower than standard EL84’s to compensate for the wattage drop (12 vs 9 watt maximum dissipation). For those of you who are familiar with the old EL83, the EL844 plate structure is quite similar but the EL844 is NOT a replacement for an EL83!!! It is quite different.
A note for the DIYers, the EL844 makes an excellent driver tube in triode mode. Try 250V B+, -5.8Vg1 (or 230Ω Rk), which will provide aprx. 25mA Ip, 11.3mA/V Tc, 2K6 Rp, and a real mu of 27."

From my research it appears that Bugger ya's...sorry...Bugeras Infinium auto biasing system has a pretty narrow range. So if the EL844 does require 25% lower bias it might be too low for it. My research has shown that the V5 Infinium is comfortable in the #30 to maybe #45 rating range. It sounds like the TungSol EL 84 is typically around the #55 to #65 range. That might explain why the TungSol is the worst of the bunch so far.

I have an email in to thetubestore.com and I've asked about their recommendation about this. Thanks again for the thoughts and sorry for the thread drift.

Cheers.....................Todd

 

[SS904]

I mentioned earlier in the thread that I liked the JJ ECC803s in my Erhard audio line stage. That holds for the foreseeable future, and I'll add I just tried a set of the JJ ECC802s in my VTA MK3s over the weekend. Been swearing by RCA 12AU7 clear tops in the VTA drivers for some time. After a few months living with my 2A3 SET pretty exclusively I decided to give the MK3s some love. The RCAs seem pretty bright to me now, as others have suggested. Dug the JJ ECC802s out of the bin and gave them in a try. Much like the JJ ECC 803s, they are well balanced bottom to top. Clean bass and highs that were there but not a bright as the RCAs. Been happy with JJ overall to be honest. Haven't been brave enough to try their Rectifiers though. Wish that made a long plate version of the 12AY7 for my phono stage. I've tried the normal short plate JJ 12AY7, but hard to beat the GE 6072s I'm now using.

 

[Lavane]

I mentioned earlier in the thread that I liked the JJ ECC803s in my Erhard audio line stage. That holds for the foreseeable future, and I'll add I just tried a set of the JJ ECC802s in my VTA MK3s over the weekend. Been swearing by RCA 12AU7 clear tops in the VTA drivers for some time. After a few months living with my 2A3 SET pretty exclusively I decided to give the MK3s some love. The RCAs seem pretty bright to me now, as others have suggested. Dug the JJ ECC802s out of the bin and gave them in a try. Much like the JJ ECC 803s, they are well balanced bottom to top. Clean bass and highs that were there but not a bright as the RCAs. Been happy with JJ overall to be honest. Haven't been brave enough to try their Rectifiers though. Wish that made a long plate version of the 12AY7 for my phono stage. I've tried the normal short plate JJ 12AY7, but hard to beat the GE 6072s I'm now using.

I ran three RCA less top 12AU7's in my ST-70 for a few years. I tried ECC99'z and E80CC's too. But in the end the NOS 12BH7 won out in the voltage gain socket, still using two clear tops in the other two sockets though. I do use a lot JJ 12AX7's and 12AU7's. I've never got a bad one.
I'm still using JJ long plate 12AU7's in my M-125 mono blocks.

 

[Mr Boochie]

.I ran three RCA less top 12AU7's in my ST-70 for a few years.

Of the clear tops that I've tried, they didn't seem to have that rich "RCA midrange" character — like most of their tubes of that era possessed. I like the RCA chrome top, black plate, tilted square getters.

 

[SS904]

I ran three RCA less top 12AU7's in my ST-70 for a few years. I tried ECC99'z and E80CC's too. But in the end the NOS 12BH7 won out in the voltage gain socket, still using two clear tops in the other two sockets though. I do use a lot JJ 12AX7's and 12AU7's. I've never got a bad one.
I'm still using JJ long plate 12AU7's in my M-125 mono blocks.

I've been on and off with the 12BH7. I do like how they sound in the gain section with the RCA CTs in the PI, but I've had a heck of a time finding a tube that isn't microphonic. Some not too bad, some severely so.

 

[Mr Boochie]

I've been on and off with the 12BH7. I do like how they sound in the gain section with the RCA CTs in the PI, but I've had a heck of a time finding a tube that isn't microphonic. Some not too bad, some severely so.

Try the Sylvania or Raytheon "tall" oval BP 12BH7A.

 

[Lavane]

Try the Sylvania or Raytheon "tall" oval BP 12BH7A.

View attachment 3600478

Thats all I use are the tall 12BH7's.

 

[SS904]

Try the Sylvania or Raytheon "tall" oval BP 12BH7A.

Thanks! I will. I'll have to look, but pretty sure all the ones I've tried are flat ladder plates.

 

[Lavane]

I found some Phillips and Siemens branded 12BH7's that sound great.
One was acually a Tungsgram made in Hungry. The Sylvania's are nice also. I think Nesstone still has some? Both used but test strong, and NOS for not an insane price. His business isn't far from me. The tubes I've bought from him show up withing two days and I haven't gotten a dud yet from him.
I bought several 6EU7's, a couple recrifier tubes, some 6L6GC's, etc. over the last few years from him.