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What is Hi End and What's not in Pioneer Turntables ?

Bigerik said:
Only Pioneer table available in north America would be, in my opinion, the PLC-590. Lots of nice tables otherwise, but the 590 was special.
As long as it has a good arm, of course....
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That is my dream TT and I hope to get one soon!
 
PETRELITO said:
I understand that Hi End means good construction quality ? or The weight?
or if it is DD ?
Thanks !!
:thmbsp:
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Just as an aside, you really cannot use any of those categories to decide that a turntable is high end. In expensive tables, build quality is usually very good, but not always. Weight is certainly not a determiner of quality. Rega makes one of the finest quality turntables there is in the P9, yet it doesn't weigh much more than some of the BPC from the 80's.
The type of drive mechanism is not a good way to tell either. Admittedly, there have been more high quality belt drive tables over the last 25 years than any other type, but there have been some truly amazing turntables that are rim (idler) drive or direct drive. So again, it is not a good way to gauge quality.
Options and convenience features usually disappear as the turntable becomes more high end (ie. Not a lot of high end automatics), but there are exceptions to this rule too. A good case could be made for the Yamaha PX-2 as being a high end table, for instance.
Price usually does work well in determining whether it is high end, but not usually if it sounds good.
Sadly, this is not an easy thing to determine.
 
I have a Linn Axis. It's a great table, sounds fantastic...better than my Pioneer. But because of an on-off button that seems like it was designed by a 3rd grader, it comes on by itself at random so it sits on the sidelines, up on a shelf without even a cartridge mounted to it while the Pioneer sees duty in the bedroom rig. I could get it fixed, but it says something about the sound of the Pioneer (and it's build quality) that fixing the Linn is far down the list of things-to-do. Admittedly, if it were an LP-12, it would be fixed. But the Systemdek is such a similar concept that I can live with an Axis.

But this has nothing do do with the original post...the best Pioneer TT I have heard personally was one of the big linear tracking ones (PL-L1000 I think), and it was just a kick to use it, too, with a fly-wheel to move the arm back and forth for track selection. A friend of mine who fixes up TTs as part of his business uses that as his personal turntable. I'm a fan of linear tracking tables, though, and many aren't, so it might not even get consideration as 'high end'. Sounded high end to me, though, but I'm also pretty forgiving.
 
I might as well jump in here. I have both a Pioneer Pl-610, which I think was one of their better tables and a ProJect XPression 1.2, not entry level, but not high up the line either. I've shared my thoughts about these tables before, love both and both sound very good. But the convenience features of the Pioneer cause me to use it as much as the ProJect. Put a good cartridge on either one, set it up properly and I think you'll be pretty happy. I'm no longer looking to upgrade my turntable - Think I'm looking for a Yamaha CR-1020 for my next upgrade.
Happy listening,
Bob
 
chadnliz said:
I shouldnt have worded things the way I did, I did not mean to dismiss the entire line-up and the tables I mentioned were low cost quality models in current production, I didnt mention ever owning a Pioneer table in my first post nor did I mention any other tables I owned, For whoever said 3 tables from Pioneer may be listed in a best ever made line up..........thats a stretch.
I am not going to get drawn into a large arguement, I was talking in general and noted my errors so attack if you wish but I have a life to live.
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That'll be me, and to be fair they were never generally available outside Japan, Germany definately.. and I stand by that statement at least three.. I will try and find some links when less busy.. Uber tables..

Cheers
Geo.
 
Here i go again

:yes:
Dear friends: Today someone offered me a Teac PX 300 turntable
I say: is this one fine turntable, i mean technically
Thanks ....
Manuel:thmbsp:
 
I own a Goldmund TT and a Pioneer PL 518 with Goldring 1012GX cartridge. Is the Goldmund better? No doubt. Is the Pioneer bad? No way. Can I enjoy music on either table? You betcha. In terms of value, which is the best? No doubt the Pioneer. So... make up your mind what is important.
 
PETRELITO said:
:yes:
Dear friends: Today someone offered me a Teac PX 300 turntable
I say: is this one fine turntable, i mean technically
Thanks ....
Manuel:thmbsp:
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It looks good, probably dates between 1979-81, but I doubt you'll find anyone who has owned or heard one. I never even knew Teac made any s-arm tables.
 
I have the Pioneer 55x, 518,516, and the 600. I consider them all to be fine TT's but always on the look out for that special one.
 
Belt v. direct, etc.

I remember reading Julian Hirsch's comments way back in Stereo Review (OK, I'm old...) that a belt drive and direct drive could be good or not depending on how well it was built. He heaped praise on the Thorens turntables and on the Pioneer 570. His only semi negative was that the tonearms were a little heavy (and that is a little debatable, based on current tonearm design...) but that BOTH tables had impressive specs.

I have Pioneer PL-8 and Pl-9 direct drives and they are great tables. I also have a Dual 506 belt drive and a Thorens TD-180 which I enjoy also . The only way I can see that one can do any real comparison is to have two identical albums on each table and a phono preamp that has two phono inputs. Put them on and do an A/B comparison.

I have an old GLI preamp/mixer with dual phono inputs and I have been tempted to do it, but I have not had the time yet.

And I will still bet that it will end up being a personal preference.
 
tigertiger said:
Here's one,
http://www.thevintageknob.org/PIONEER/P3/P3.html
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The 'ultra' version of the P3,the P3a was the one to look-out for.
Well done,tigertiger for mentioning the Pioneer turntable which makes all other Pioneer turntables look like Fisher-Price.
Having gone from a Yamaha PX-2(I loved it's sound) to a Yamaha GT 2000,the difference in sonic prowess is beyond comprehension.A step of 'seven-league-boots' proportions.
If the P3,and especially the P3a sound as good as they are purported to,I imagine that they would similarly eclipse the rest of the Pioneer line-up.
 
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