What is the best 'bang for the buck' tube Mc preamp?

[twiiii]

A friend of mine has a C-11 he loves the sound and so do I with MC-60's and Altec big Coaxes. Another has C-22 driving MC3500's and the sound is beyond belief. Another a C-22 driving a 2100, tilt and I have felt that way from the first day he bought his 2100, mine included, but then My C-22 didn't go well with My 275 Mk-1's. The C-28 was much better and the C-29 a real revelation that I kept for over 30 years. So I wouldn't put a C-22 with a 2300 which is a 2100 with more output transistors. I would get a C-2200. But the 2300 would have to go first. A 2200 and a 352 would be mu choice.

 

[quartersaw]

Thanks for all of the replies! Sounds like my best bet *MIGHT* be that MX-110z, but that could change in a minute if I can find the right deal. 4K for a preamp is (unfortunately) beyond my means.
Currently, I'm running a Devry Technical Institute (!) tube preamp l which has a a 12AX7A,12AU7,12AX7A configuration per side,(look like rebranded Mullard's) with a 6X4 rectifier.(I'm wondering if the 12au7's were a P.O. mod).I variac'd, and cleaned this preamp for a friend who bought it with a push/pull EL-84 amp for $35.( It was loaded with dust, and mouse crap)
The MC2300 with this preamp has gobs of power, but it is still too bright, and lacks deep bass.(Original caps) I might chuck a couple of 12AX7's in place of the AU7's just to see what kind of horsepower it will have then....My Mc2300 remains untouched at this point, but I am going to do a cap job down the road.

 

[62caddy]

Thanks for all of the replies! Sounds like my best bet *MIGHT* be that MX-110z, (And would be interested if anybody has one for sale' )but that could change in a minute if I can find the right deal. 4K for a preamp is (unfortunately) beyond my means.
Currently, I'm running a Devry Technical Institute (!) tube preamp l which has a a 12AX7A,12AU7,12AX7A configuration per side,(look like rebranded Mullard's) with a 6X4 rectifier.(I'm wondering if the 12au7's were a P.O. mod).I variac'd, and cleaned this preamp for a friend who bought it with a push/pull EL-84 amp for $35.( It was loaded with dust, and mouse crap)
The MC2300 with this preamp has gobs of power, but it is still too bright, and lacks deep bass.(Original caps) I might chuck a couple of 12AX7's in place of the AU7's just to see what kind of horsepower it will have then....My Mc2300 remains untouched at this point, but I am going to do a cap job down the road.

One of givens in this game is the point of vanishing returns of SQ vs expenditure - not to mention the subjectivity of individual hearing, priorities and finances.

 

[Pio1980]

IMHO, the unique unity-coupled tube amps were what made Mac special, anyone could put together a decent-sounding acceptable preamp or tuner or solid-state amp.
It's pretty much about styling with quality construction and sonic flavors here with Mac, you want 'all Mac all the time' or will good sound from what you have now do it for you? The options open up considerably behind door #2.

 

[bonsai]

I have a new Audio Research LP-1 and it is unreal good. It is a hybrid solid state tube buffer out design. It works wonders with a higher gain MC

 

[CountD]

A friend of mine has a C-11 he loves the sound and so do I with MC-60's and Altec big Coaxes. Another has C-22 driving MC3500's and the sound is beyond belief. Another a C-22 driving a 2100, tilt and I have felt that way from the first day he bought his 2100, mine included, but then My C-22 didn't go well with My 275 Mk-1's. The C-28 was much better and the C-29 a real revelation that I kept for over 30 years. So I wouldn't put a C-22 with a 2300 which is a 2100 with more output transistors. I would get a C-2200. But the 2300 would have to go first. A 2200 and a 352 would be mu choice.

I dunno...goes to show that listening preference is a really individual thing when someone takes a C28 over a C22, and then the states the C22 doesn't go well with the Mc275. Honestly, I have heard Mc3500s and they were noisier than expected and didn't put out the warmth in bass compared to when 2 Mc2300s were run in mono. It is what it is...to me the C28 is one of the worst sounding Mc pres - and I had one that was done by Audioclassics and tried it with everything. Goes to show you should listen to as much as you can because you might not like the tube pre amp and might like a early SS one better than anything, and save a bunch of dough in the process. It makes sense that any higher number than 22 like the 24,26,28,29,30, etc would be an improvement in sound - that just wasn't the case with me.

 

[quartersaw]

I'd love to audition a number of preamps, but no vintage audio retail shops exist in the immediate area. I'm at the mercy of 'word of mouth'. - At least for now.
....Sounds like the same situation with electric guitars, and guitar amps. A particular amp can sound great with one guitar (and effects pedal) combination, but lousy with another. I'm banking that a given recommended Mc preamp could be tweaked to get 'in the ballpark' of what I am after sonically speaking.

 

[CountD]

I'd love to audition a number of preamps, but no vintage audio retail shops exist in the immediate area. I'm at the mercy of 'word of mouth'. - At least for now.
....Sounds like the same situation with electric guitars, and guitar amps. A particular amp can sound great with one guitar (and effects pedal) combination, but lousy with another. I'm banking that a given recommended Mc preamp could be tweaked to get 'in the ballpark' of what I am after sonically speaking.

You are completely right on this one. I only know from experience as I wanted the experience of having all the Mc pres I could and then settling (ie. buying one or two, checking them out, then passing them on). I have owned a clean example of a C22, C24, C26, C27, C30, C32, C33, C34, Mx110, Mx112, Mx113, Mx114, etc, etc and the only keepers I am left with are 2 Mx110 Z's, a c22, and a Mx112 (that sounds completely sonically different from the other 4 Mx112s I have have had).

I really enjoyed the Mx110 because this is where I learned the art of tube rolling, and changing out the 6U8s was a great treat and I think I rolled them probably 25 times - each with their own character. Funny thing is the Telefunkens were my least favorite, and I prefer Mullards or RCAs - Sylvanias are sweet too. I even rolled some generics in there - got a box of 50 for something like $9 and it was awesome going through them. This is where you could do some serious tweaking with little effort or price. You can get 6U8s everywhere now.

The Mc2300 is really a match for the C22, as the Mc2300 is more 'tubey' than anything - it's gritty and noisy for sure, but after hearing and owning a lot of Mc amps, nothing beats 'The Hammer.' It powers everything, and if you hear one (or two) through JBL 4430s or 4435s the game is on. The Mc2300 at clipping makes everything (including Mc amps) sound too civilized.

My advice is to start with something you can afford, or works in the first place, and then move up. I wasn't ready (or didn't know what I was comparing to or hearing) until I heard A LOT of stuff. Then again my ears may be an anomaly as I liked the C24 vs. the C26 or C28. But my idea is that there is a conspiracy against the C24 as they are rare compared to others and I think 100 times more people shame them than ever heard them.

 

[Snoober]

CJ preamps can sound good with Mc amps from personal experience.

 

[Bubo]

I've decided to find a 'mate' for my newly acquired MC2300 power amp. Advice/opinions are much appreciated!

IF SIMPLE IS BETTER?

The 2300 is now more than 30 years old, I think it is early Mc first or second generation solid state.

I am not a bench tech, but the first thing I would do is a complete recap using better components than original where possible. I would not try to color the sound of the amp, but rather make it as accurate and natural as possible.

I know that Tube tech is for lack of a better description hot tech now so the prices are up, way up. I don't know about collectability, but tube system prices look like the 2005 real estate market to me.

For a pre-amp I would get something that is reliable and a proven performer like a C-32 or c-34. If you have the skills and know how, completely rebuild it including replacing the op amps.

If your primary source is a TT the C-32 has a good sounding pre amp built in.

Or you can experiment with tubes and even order harmonic distortion with a relatively inexpensive TT pre amp like the "Bellari VP130 Mm Tube Phono Preamplifier With Headphone Amplifier". I will probably be getting one to play with over the Winter. The naked unit looks very simple, and going with the argument that simple is better, this fits the bill. Since it has built in Output Level control on the Line Out, you could probably connect it directly to the MC-2300 for the ultimate in simplicity, perhaps getting the simplist RCA AB (CD) direct wire switch available so you can toggle between the Phono amp and the pre-amp ( or no pre amp, just TT, Tuner and a CD player, I think the 2300 has gain controls on the front) as a source. I may do this with one of my Yamaha amps, klipsch heresys and a TT to see how it works with no stand alone pre-amp. Pretty sure there are CD players with volume controls, my tuner has it too.

I will have to look for an RCA switch with pots or add them to an existing one. The trick would be not blowing up the amp by forgetting to turn the volume down before using the switch.

http://www.amazon.com/Bellari-VP130-Preamplifier-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B002TD4GME/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1383655634&sr=1-2&keywords=bellari+ha540


For CDs, many of the Digitally Remastered ones are inferior to the original masters because of what is called Loudness Wars, there is also Qantization Error to contend with. Again, you can buy a good used balanced CD player and bypass most of the electronics and install tubes, there is a guy in Poland who is apparently a master of retrofitting gear for simplicity. What others do for thousands, he does for a couple of hundred. The optics fail first in most of these, I don't know how hard it could be to replace the CD drive with one from the computer store? CD drive, Burr Brown DAC chips, tubes.

Something like this might work as an RCA switch if you decide to go no pre-amp. The gain controls on the front of the amp would be the volume controls. You would have to ask, but I'm guessing a well designed unit would terminate the unused inputs and shunt the output while you are switching.

I am running out of RCA ports on one of my systems, and may use a box like this as a work around for the Aux in.

http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-103027-4-Port-Component-Learning/dp/B001TK9SEE/ref=sr_1_20?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1383657405&sr=1-20&keywords=rca+switch

 

[twiiii]

That's the problem with 275's Mk 1 they are too warm and the highs above 7 khz not to my liking. If you had 3500's that were noisy, you had something definitely set up wrong. With sensitivity set at 3 volts they are clean as a whistle even driving JBL Altec or Klipsch speakers. THOUGH I WOULDN'T IN A HOME. I used to drive 4 210 boxes with 515s or 2220's and 803' or 203 horns with 288 C's bi-amped. you could drive 8 to 12 drivers with a 3500's and have over 100 db at 50 yards out doors. With a response of 40 to 7,000 hz rolling of 6 db at 14,000 hz provoding the humidity and wind was not a factor. In doors it was easy to reach 110 db with room loading with 5 to 8,000 people in attendance.

 

[quartersaw]

I've got my eyes on a few possibilities, but none of them are local. I may end up doing a day's drive again for the purchase as I did with the Mc2300.
I'm going to take my time with this to see what unfolds. I do appreciate all of the comments. - Plenty of food for thought!

 

[quartersaw]

...Hooked up the MX-110Z last night. I found a problem with my speakers. One of my mids was open, which caused an impedance mismatch. 'Raggedness' in my Mc2300 vanished!
The Mc2300 with the MX-110 sounds absolutely delicious! This is the Mcintosh sound that I remembered as a kid!
I was thinking that my 2300 needed some work, but I think for now, I'm leaving everything as it is!
All that I can say is *WOW*!