What Solid State Gear Sounds Most Like Tubes?
- Thread starter onepixel
- Start date
If you want to get real close without the downfalls of tubes try a hybrid power amp. Presently I'm using a Van Alstine Fetvalve 550 to drive the Planar/Ribbon section of my Vmps RM 40's. Before that I used a Blue Circle BC 24.
Both amps add a richness and body to the midrange I've not heard in the numerous SS amps I've heard over the decades. Hybrid amps like these use inexpensive tubes in the input section where they are actually superior at handling the voltage swings to transistors. These input tubes last a very long time and new ones can be had for 25 per pair. There's no several hundred dollar penalty once a year, a ton of heat or the biasing pains.
There are tube amps that come close to SS but are expensive. Most of what I've heard sound wonderful in the midrange but the mid/upper treble is rolled off. The bass can be bloated to outright mushy as heck. Some tube amps or preamps can make the sound seem like it's slow. Then you have every other flavor of tube amp in between.
I'd recommend listening to various companies products. A Cary pre I owned mushed everything up and made things sound like it was playing in slow motion. The Audio Research pre I had was truly wonderful except it lost some bass punch and a bit of power in the very bottom.
Don't bother with a pure SS amp. Try something with inexpensive tubes like a tube pre or hybrid power amp where the tubes are small and inexpensive and need no maintenance.
The reason people like tube gear has to be heard to be best understood. I went through several dacs thinking this was what I needed to get this smooth rich sound that seemed more real than any SS amp I tried could do. Then I tried a Cary pre and knew I was on the right track.
Another problem with tube pre's is they often need a power amp with a high input impedance. You need to be careful with this and make sure that your input impedance is high enough for the extra high output impedance of tube preamps.
I'm a staunch advocate these days of the hybrid power amp. They create a sound that is much more tangible. The instruments and vocals have that bit of richness or weight added that makes the sound more life like.
At minimum it's worth a try. We all have our preferences and many people love tube gear. It's unlike SS gear and should be tried by all. Remember however that different companies have different amounts of tube coloration. Some barely discernable and others very discernable. Only you can say for sure if tubes are for you.
Both amps add a richness and body to the midrange I've not heard in the numerous SS amps I've heard over the decades. Hybrid amps like these use inexpensive tubes in the input section where they are actually superior at handling the voltage swings to transistors. These input tubes last a very long time and new ones can be had for 25 per pair. There's no several hundred dollar penalty once a year, a ton of heat or the biasing pains.
There are tube amps that come close to SS but are expensive. Most of what I've heard sound wonderful in the midrange but the mid/upper treble is rolled off. The bass can be bloated to outright mushy as heck. Some tube amps or preamps can make the sound seem like it's slow. Then you have every other flavor of tube amp in between.
I'd recommend listening to various companies products. A Cary pre I owned mushed everything up and made things sound like it was playing in slow motion. The Audio Research pre I had was truly wonderful except it lost some bass punch and a bit of power in the very bottom.
Don't bother with a pure SS amp. Try something with inexpensive tubes like a tube pre or hybrid power amp where the tubes are small and inexpensive and need no maintenance.
The reason people like tube gear has to be heard to be best understood. I went through several dacs thinking this was what I needed to get this smooth rich sound that seemed more real than any SS amp I tried could do. Then I tried a Cary pre and knew I was on the right track.
Another problem with tube pre's is they often need a power amp with a high input impedance. You need to be careful with this and make sure that your input impedance is high enough for the extra high output impedance of tube preamps.
I'm a staunch advocate these days of the hybrid power amp. They create a sound that is much more tangible. The instruments and vocals have that bit of richness or weight added that makes the sound more life like.
At minimum it's worth a try. We all have our preferences and many people love tube gear. It's unlike SS gear and should be tried by all. Remember however that different companies have different amounts of tube coloration. Some barely discernable and others very discernable. Only you can say for sure if tubes are for you.
pmsummer said:
Agreed! I have used a lot of ss Gear and without a doubt my current C28/MC2100 did the best job of any. It still will not approach a tube solution like the C2200/MC275 combo that I have auditioned with my system, but with 2 in college that upgrade will have to wait. for the $$ spent the current combo is hard to beat for turn it on, and play with no fuss etc. I can see myself lost in tube rolling land, and I want to focus on the music not the equipment. I did send the C28 to Terry DeWick with great results. The budget controlled Quest continues!! :yes:
IMHO
Jim
Most Hafler stuff, the stock dh500 I have was very warm, with great bottom
end, it's getting modded now, and hope it stays that way.
end, it's getting modded now, and hope it stays that way.
alexkerhead
To High For Infinity
You know I just up graded to the laser discs!Damage said:
onplane
What! No Wake???
I am aware of two "transition" ss amps that will probably be the ss amps that sound closest to tube amps. One amp I built as a kit. It was an Eico and I think their very first ss receiver. All of the transistors were mounted in sockets … just a dream amp to repair.
Anyhow what makes this amp unique is that it had a direct coupled output, but just before the output there was an interstage transformer.
Now, this transformer was small is size, because it had no real power to handle. Nevertheless, it would add harmonics just like the output transformers in a tube amp.
The Eico receiver wasn’t the only amp like this. AR’s first amplifier had the same design and I’m sure there are others.
Has anyone compared the sound of these ss amps with interstage transformers to tube amps?
Regards,
Jerry
Anyhow what makes this amp unique is that it had a direct coupled output, but just before the output there was an interstage transformer.
Now, this transformer was small is size, because it had no real power to handle. Nevertheless, it would add harmonics just like the output transformers in a tube amp.
The Eico receiver wasn’t the only amp like this. AR’s first amplifier had the same design and I’m sure there are others.
Has anyone compared the sound of these ss amps with interstage transformers to tube amps?
Regards,
Jerry
yamahammer
mikiesmadness continues
any body heard the moscode line of hybrids ?????
westend
Audiopile
I have a chance to pick up a couple of Hafler amps (d-150 and a smaller one) for fairly cheap. Could these be used in a home stereo setup or are the sonics not quite up to others? I have a QSC pro-amp that does duty as a sub amp for HT and I don't think it could really be used for a good stereo setup.
westend said:
Hafler stuff has no problems powering anything and everything, from your
dh150 up to a dh500, it's all good. And there current stuff also rocks.
onepixel said:
Carl,
I understand your question and what you are getting at. That said, your old Marantz 18 has a tube like sound to it. I can only describe it right now as a bit "fuzzy". I don't want to offend the tube guys here, that's not my intent, but to me, that's how most tube amps sound.
Truthfully, I'm not sure that I like it. I'll listen to it a bit more and see if it grows on me.
alexkerhead
To High For Infinity
Maybe you need to try a Marantz again. It was probably your speakers you were using. :yes:Brian said:
Brian
An Old Geezer
Uh, had a good deal of Marantz both separates and receivers and was a Marantz dealer. As for speakers well we carried and were dealer for most all of the better rated and even some not so decent brands. Never got a combination in years where the SS units sounded similar to either the preconceived notion of a tube unit nor Marantz tube units. We actually used a Marantz tube system as a permanent reference system in-house. It was a 10b/7C and a pair of 9s. Also used the SLT12 with a Shure V15 and B&O SP12 for a table. I owned a 19 that I mated wonderfully with a set of Wharfedale W70Ds and this combo was magic but, not tube sounding. The system eventually went form me to my younger brother who used it for many years until he finally got married. The system was used between us for about 20 years.
The Marantz did not sound poorly for the most part but not voiced to tubes. I do wish I had an 18 or even a 19 again in my inventory but they are not on a must have list.
The Marantz did not sound poorly for the most part but not voiced to tubes. I do wish I had an 18 or even a 19 again in my inventory but they are not on a must have list.
When I got into this everything used tubes. Then came SS at a time when there were still HiFI shows which were open to the public. There were held around the country in hotels. Most manufacturers had rooms where they demonstrated their goods. Moving from room to room was a great way to compare tubes with the new SS stuff. To my ear tubes always won. The difference was at the high end. Tube sound was smooth while the early SS was harsh. It was to be many years before I would ever consider SS gear.
The industry made great strides and by the 70's, Sansui and a few others were producing some pretty good receivers, I even bought a Sansui 771.
I consider myself somewhat of a purist when it comes to audio and by the 80's I wanted to go back to separate components. So, out came my old Dynakits. A few years later, I really didn't much care for the PAS2 any more so I got a Hafler 945 tuner preamp but, kept my ST 70. The combo was pretty good till the 945 started to go bad about ten years later.
I then decided to begin to build my dream system. I got a McIntosh C 24 and dug out my Fisher R 200 tuner, again keeping my ST 70. The McIntosh was wonderful but the tuner just wasn't what I had become accustomed to so I began buying tuners, finally ending up with a McIntosh MR 7082. In the mean time, I got a McIntosh CD player and upgraded to a C 26 which had an additional tape loop. All the while keeping my ST 70.
So what I am saying in this long story is that it is possible to maintain a rich, warm, smooth, accurate sound with a combination on tube and SS gear. I have yet to be able to afford a McIntosh power amp using either tubes or SS devices but judging by how my MAC 1900 receiver sounds, I really don't think it would matter much and I would like either type of amp. I will say that during most of this time my speakers never changed. I use and love my AR 3a's.
My advise: I spent nearly 50 years listing and buying and buying and buying. It's been fun but now I can't walk around here without falling over some unused component, usually a tuner ( I have them stacked up and now need to part with some of them). If you are on a budget and don't have nearly 50 years, pick up a MAC 1700 or a 1900. They are available at reasonable prices and have that "sound". Knowing what I know now, I wonder if I had saved my pennies and bought a MAC 1900 in the 70's instead of the Sansui, if I would have spent the last 25 years in the "search". Find a good dealer who carries used gear, listen and compare.
If money is no object, get anything McIntosh makes, but still choose your speakers wisely. We all have different ears, mine like the older AR's. I have 4 pairs of them. 2 pr of AR 3a, 1 pr of AR 2 and 1 pr. of AR 4x.
I know I sound like an ad for McIntosh but you just can't go wrong when you buy the best, new or used.
Clyde
The industry made great strides and by the 70's, Sansui and a few others were producing some pretty good receivers, I even bought a Sansui 771.
I consider myself somewhat of a purist when it comes to audio and by the 80's I wanted to go back to separate components. So, out came my old Dynakits. A few years later, I really didn't much care for the PAS2 any more so I got a Hafler 945 tuner preamp but, kept my ST 70. The combo was pretty good till the 945 started to go bad about ten years later.
I then decided to begin to build my dream system. I got a McIntosh C 24 and dug out my Fisher R 200 tuner, again keeping my ST 70. The McIntosh was wonderful but the tuner just wasn't what I had become accustomed to so I began buying tuners, finally ending up with a McIntosh MR 7082. In the mean time, I got a McIntosh CD player and upgraded to a C 26 which had an additional tape loop. All the while keeping my ST 70.
So what I am saying in this long story is that it is possible to maintain a rich, warm, smooth, accurate sound with a combination on tube and SS gear. I have yet to be able to afford a McIntosh power amp using either tubes or SS devices but judging by how my MAC 1900 receiver sounds, I really don't think it would matter much and I would like either type of amp. I will say that during most of this time my speakers never changed. I use and love my AR 3a's.
My advise: I spent nearly 50 years listing and buying and buying and buying. It's been fun but now I can't walk around here without falling over some unused component, usually a tuner ( I have them stacked up and now need to part with some of them). If you are on a budget and don't have nearly 50 years, pick up a MAC 1700 or a 1900. They are available at reasonable prices and have that "sound". Knowing what I know now, I wonder if I had saved my pennies and bought a MAC 1900 in the 70's instead of the Sansui, if I would have spent the last 25 years in the "search". Find a good dealer who carries used gear, listen and compare.
If money is no object, get anything McIntosh makes, but still choose your speakers wisely. We all have different ears, mine like the older AR's. I have 4 pairs of them. 2 pr of AR 3a, 1 pr of AR 2 and 1 pr. of AR 4x.
I know I sound like an ad for McIntosh but you just can't go wrong when you buy the best, new or used.
Clyde
Brian said:
Brian I agree, I have owned a Marantz 2230, 2270. and the 3300pre/250 power amp combo, and the recievers sounded better to me than the 3300/250. I agree the 2230 was a good sounding reciever, but the 3300 preamp was dead,lifeless,and a huge disapointment. Especially for dollars spent. I replaced it with a H/K Citation 17s and the 250 sounded good. replaced the 250 with a Macintosh 2100 and stayed with that for a long time, as the 2100 made the 250 sound sterile and harsh. Never remember the 250 sounding tube like, and the 3300 was SS at its harshest. IMHO
:scratch2:
onepixel
.
Clyde,
Great insight and wonderful advice. I've tried just about everything except for a MAC and tubes. I've been considering a Mac-1700 but I read there was some reliability issues. Any thoughts? http://www.circlestereo.com/info/brands/mcintosh/?content=mac1700
Thanks,
Carl
Great insight and wonderful advice. I've tried just about everything except for a MAC and tubes. I've been considering a Mac-1700 but I read there was some reliability issues. Any thoughts? http://www.circlestereo.com/info/brands/mcintosh/?content=mac1700
Thanks,
Carl
pmsummer
simul justus et peccator
onepixel said:
They're whipping that question to death over on AA.
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/vintage/messages/133130.html
...but the original poster seems to happy with his Mac/Mc set-up (see the little thing to the left of the 1700?).
