What speakers are these hanging from the ceiling?? (pictures)

[G871]

I've yet to measure the distance between screw holes, because parts came and I got busy working on the speakers! Spent the last two nights prepping for the crossover build/install.

But I want to see if I can get further clarification on something. The 2405 has reversed polarity right? Meaning red is negative? That's what I've read in my research - that all of the older JBL ring radiator tweeters have the colors reversed, opposite of what the industry standards now are.

But I couldn't find a definitive answer for the 2440/2441 - is it the same deal?

Pictures of the revival process coming soon.

 

[grey_beard]

 

[toddalin]

JBL Polarity Guide is at the link. The guide lists those later drivers. Note the none of the listed drivers are AlNiCo.

The 2440/2441 predates the list, where JBL routinely used a "negative" polarity. TO ME, this would infer that the 2440/2441 would have a "negative" polarity. Also, the later ferrite replacement 2446 is listed as "negative."

But the reality of the situation is that with horns, you may want the polarity reversed to account for the difference in path length. Ultimately, the room and distance you sit will also contribute to this and it really should be determined in the room using an RTA if at all possible. That's what I do.

BTW, my AlNiCo 2420s are also not listed, and seem to integrate best as "negative" polarity and their later replacement, the 2426, is listed as "negative."

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/technote/tn_v1n12b.pdf

 

[G871]

Wonderful response and information. I'll have to do some reading on RTA's. For now I'll wire the 2405's and 2440's negatively, and then since the 2440 posts are outside of the cabinet I can easily swap the polarity and see how it sounds.

Getting so close....

 

[G871]

Finally an update....part 1:

I decided to cut new patch panels made out of plywood spraypainted black, and mount the crossovers and L pads to the interior side of those. It went really well, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I'd replaced a few caps and a resistor before, but never built a crossover. It was definitely an unexpected challenge learning to apply a crossover schematic to real life....but I get it now, and expect it to be like riding a bike from here on out.

Since only 2 woofers match, I decided I would make one pair with the best of all parts. Two matching woofers, two tweeters with straight phase plugs, and the best looking lenses....and since I did it this way, I also took two of the spring terminals from the other pair to use as exterior terminals for the 2440's wires to go into the cabinet to the crossovers. (see pics if that doesn't seem to make sense) I wanted it all to match, at least on this pair.

All went relatively well. Challenges to solve and hurdles to jump over, of course, but, it's done and I learned a lot and had a great time doing it.

Pictures of, in this order, a tweeter with new weatherstripping seal, one of my work spaces (the other was the living room floor), the finished crossover, and one of the speakers.





HOWEVER........

I now know why the tweeters weren't in use. They need work. One or two have barely any output above like 12khz I think it was, another has no output above about 15khz (and drops off severely after 10-12khz), and the other I haven't tested yet but it sounded to be doing the most out of the whole bunch, and yet still not much. There wasn't much sound coming out of it, and I didn't feel that it really added much to the entire picture. Sooo, maybe diaphragms?

But here's the thing. Do I want to invest that much money in these? Because yes, they do sound good with just the mids and woofers going. Surprisingly good. I sat and smiled while listening, but the bass is not my cup of tea. I think I'm learning that I prefer sealed cabinets. They have nice powerful bass, but like other ported speakers I've heard, it's open and kind of hollow-ish. There is definitely a tightness to it...I'd say tighter than any other ported speakers I'd heard prior....but not tight enough. It's good, but leaves me wanting, even with the house rattling.

Then there's the midrange. It sounds good, and had me smiling, but it sounds like it's coming from far away. That's the best way I can put it. But in my research I saw someone say they had the same experience with big lenses in home settings, and that they lacked the immediacy he likes - and that when he took the lenses off, it was solved. So, I should try that.

And that was my plan....until this happened. (part two coming immediately after I finish this - I hit my limit on pictures in this post)

 

[G871]

I've wanted a pair of these for some time now....and a pair popped up on CL an hour away for $500 OBO. I contacted the person immediately and scheduled a demo session for the same day. New foam on the 10" woofers, but turns out one of them had a bad front-facing tweeter, so I offered $300 and he took it.

I don't want to go too off topic here, so I'll get to the point - I love them. The bass is way more my style, and upon listening to them I was immediately, and significantly, more impressed than with the Gauss/JBL's. Obviously they'll be even better with the tweeter repaired (already ordered a new diaphragm and did my research there), but I'm sure the JBL's will too, once they have properly working tweeters and maybe the lenses off.

The mids and highs of the JBL's are going to REALLY have to be something for me to keep them. If the mids and highs are THAT good, then perhaps I would consider building new cabs for them with different woofers and sealed enclosures to match my tastes. If the mids and highs are not impressive enough to me, then I'll be selling everything I can from them to recoup all the money I can. Because let's face it....I didn't get that great of a deal with them. 4 tweeters that need repaired, 2 woofers that don't match the others, nor each other, and no crossovers. I'm not bitter.....I was for a little bit. But perspective is everything, and I learned a lot through all of this and overall had a great time, and will do the best with everything I have and move on a happy camper. It's all part of my journey in the audio world, learning what kind of speakers I prefer and doing my best to navigate towards them while still doing well financially.

Plus I got two powerful Crown PSA-2's, one of which is coming in really handy for these RS II's!

Thoughts?? I'll have to crack one of these 'bad' 2405's open and see what it looks like inside, and report back.

 

[toddalin]

I understand what you mean about the midrange. To me, it is a "swimmy or "phasey" effect as if playing in a large hall, even when the venue doesn't call for it. My home brews don't do this, but certainly called my attention to it.

The big driver can sound quite nice without the tweeter and there is none of the spit or sibilance. Still, it is nice to have the tweets to dial in some air, though you can pick up some tizz with it.

The Infinitis look very nice and I'll bet are very enjoyable.

 

[G871]

Yep they're very enjoyable. And yet, I haven't lost interest in the JBL stuff. I took the 2405's apart a couple nights ago and confirmed that yes, they need new diaphragms. So, that's the next step. I'll be ordering genuine JBL replacements likely in the next couple weeks.

I'm really considering creating entirely new cabinets for the components....and possibly new woofers. (?) Kind of getting ahead of myself, but if I find that I love the sound of the tweeters and horns (probably without lenses, at least in my current small house), I would want to build mirror-imaged cabinets with different woofers. I love sealed cabinet bass....I've heard people say ported cabs can sound just as tight and defined as sealed, but I haven't heard it. Not saying I think that means they don't exist, I just haven't experienced it....so I lean towards sealed cabs, with woofers still crossed over to horns/tweeters using the VFX2A.

Any advice there? Since these are already kind of Frankenstein speakers I could go with whatever woofers I want.....suppose I will need to check the specs of 2440/2405 to match efficiency ratings. Anything else to be aware of there?

 

[toddalin]

You will not come across any woofer with an efficiency to match the 2440/2405, so just pick which will work best, because no matter what woofers you use, you will end up padding down the horn and tweeter. And, you don't need maximum volume in the home as you would in a commercial setting.

I use 2425s on butt cheeks with W10GTis and the difference in efficiency is ridiculous. But the W10GTis go plenty LOUD (especially in a home setting), and it was mearly a matter of reducing the volume to the horns accordingly.

You may also find that if the sound with the lenses is "phasey" you may want to try moving them a bit closer together. I found this to be the case with the L300s.

 

[G871]

You will not come across any woofer with an efficiency to match the 2440/2405, so just pick which will work best, because no matter what woofers you use, you will end up padding down the horn and tweeter.

Ahhh, yeah that makes sense. This is my first set of bi-amped speakers, so I wasn't thinking about how I'll be able to adjust the volume independently. Cool.

I use 2425s on butt cheeks with W10GTis and the difference in efficiency is ridiculous. But the W10GTis go plenty LOUD (especially in a home setting), and it was mearly a matter of reducing the volume to the horns accordingly.

Whoa, that looks like one heckuva woofer. Digging the specs, too. Down to 16hz, and works for sealed or ported enclosures? Hmm......now why would the min/max sealed enclosure size be smaller (0.75 cubic feet) than the min/max ported enclosure size (1.75 cubic feet)? I thought that ported boxes were generally able to be smaller than a sealed box to achieve the same frequency response, albeit at the cost of efficiency....but perhaps I have that wrong.

So in what way do you use that woofer? Very curious about your setup....do you use it as a dedicated subwoofer, or as the woofer in a 3 or 4-way speaker system? If you've already posted about this I can search your posts and find it, just lemme know.

**Edit: Oh and it was originally intended to be used in car/vehicle audio?! Now I'm even more curious about what you have to say about it.

You may also find that if the sound with the lenses is "phasey" you may want to try moving them a bit closer together. I found this to be the case with the L300s.

Ok I'll try that first before taking them off!

Thanks Todd.

 

[toddalin]

I use the W10GTi's in 2-way systems for my four surround speakers. I designed and made my own crossovers based roughly on the L200B circuit that I used in the L200/300s, crossing them at ~800 Hz, and modified the circuit to the components at hand with lots of RTA testing.

Yes the GTi line was designed for automotive competition, but that doesn't stop them from working well in a home setting. And, as I said, the W15GTi is more linear to 1kHz than the 2235 foam edge woofer, and with the same motor asssembly and a lighter cone mass, the 10s go even higher.

If you look at some of JBLs later woofer offerings at ths "highest end," you will see than they use some of the GTi technology and IIRC even a portion of the basket.

 

[G871]

I use the W10GTi's in 2-way systems for my four surround speakers. I designed and made my own crossovers based roughly on the L200B circuit that I used in the L200/300s, crossing them at ~800 Hz, and modified the circuit to the components at hand with lots of RTA testing.

Whoa....very cool.

 

[drums4reed]

Wow a lot of info on these gauss speakers .Right before the new year I sold a pr of Frazier speakers the man who bought them said he knew of a pr of studio monitors that were sitting out side of a house down town and the lady who had them didn't have room to put them inside he also diddent have room for them at his place and offered them to me so a few days later and about 50 steps up and 50 ade it down here they are I can't believe they were left out side in the rain but many thanks to all who made it happen .