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What to do with Altec 420Y Drivers?

mxlews

mxlews

Active Member
I have a pair of Altec 420Y drivers in Madrid cabs. The tweeters that are mounted over them seem to be blown, so I'm wondering what my next step should be. Should I just replace the tweeters and use the speakers like that? Would they sound good that way? My other option is to find some small horns, compression drivers, and crossovers for them, but I know that could end up costing much more than I have to spend on these at the moment. What is my best option for getting these sounding nice, but keeping the budget at a couple hundred dollars, if there is an option like that at all? Thanks guys.
 
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Plenty of options, but you have to come closer to $300 before it gets good. :yes:

Post or link us to a pic of the Madrid baffle, please....
 
How much will a recone cost me, or how hard is it to DIY? I've got refoaming down, but have never attempted a recone.

Okay, let's say my budget is $300, maybe even $400. What will that get me?
 
mxlews said:
Okay, let's say my budget is $300, maybe even $400. What will that get me?
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BMS 4552nd drivers, throat adapters, $10 JBL 90° x 50° PT waveguides, DIY Altec 846B (if 8-Ohm woofer) crossovers with compensation (don't know what crossover's in Madrids).

Use BMS 4550 to save $60 on the drivers, if the budget gets tight.

Waveguides are 12" W x 6.5" H. If those won't fit above your woofers, make new baffles, assuming they're removable.

Ask member Jackgiff how well this works. He's got two pair of Altec Valencias set up like this using 811B Altec horns, and is modding a pair of Santanas with new baffles and PT waveguides to do the same.... :yes:

Redboy, SteveO, and I believe Macaltec and others are presently working with variations of this theme. I'm listening to them (BMS on PT waveguides, 846B XOs) right now in these:

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What exactly are waveguides and where do they go? The baffle is not removable. Also, can I place the horns and drivers on top of the cabs? I've seen people that do this. There is no room in the Madrid cabs for a big horn, only a tiny one. These did not have crossovers, just caps between tweeter and woofer.
 
mxlews said:
What exactly are waveguides and where do they go? The baffle is not removable. Also, can I place the horns and drivers on top of the cabs? I've seen people that do this. There is no room in the Madrid cabs for a big horn, only a tiny one. These did not have crossovers, just caps between tweeter and woofer.
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Waveguide is the horn.

http://www.jblpro.com/ae/pdf/PT_WaveGuide.pdf

Yes, I set them on top routinely; they're better integrated in the cabinet, tho:
 

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Oh man, Zilch! You would have to go and post a picture like that! That's one impressive pile of speakers!

mxlews, Zilch referred to my project along these lines. Follow the link in my signature if you're interested (Caution: Long thread!).
 
Yes, they can be reconed as 416's but the magnets should be recharged, Great Plains Audio can do all that, personally I'd flip them with that ePay auction site and use the procedes elsewhere. Most likely a simple Pioneer ring tweeter is all that's needed to replace the blown tweets. If I needed more woofers I'd love to try these, awful cheap for what they look like; Usher 15HM or Usher 15PA I just wonder how they sound, the price is about the same as reconing an Altec, the plots on those woofers are probably not the greatest but for the price, who cares? Zilch covered the high frequencies already, Dave. :yes:
 
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Mx---I think you're getting some bum advice, people transferring their notions and fantasies onto you.

The 420Y is an excellent sounding wide-range driver. You don't need to turn it into a 416and you don't need to use it with expensive 1" compression drivers and horns. What you do need are a pair of good tweeters.

I'd try the Vifa H26TG35s. It's a horn loaded dome with good sensitivity and excellent sound, I've used them and they sound very sweet and natural. They're $30 each at Madisound.

Call Madisound and they'll help you with a crossover, I'm thinking turning the Vifa on around 5000hz using a simple capacitor. But it will work fine at 2500hz where I think your speakers crossed. In any event it should be cheap and easy.

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=153&products_id=1089
 
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The 420Y is an excellent sounding wide-range driver. You don't need to turn it into a 416and you don't need to use it with expensive 1" compression drivers and horns. What you do need are a pair of good tweeters.
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I kinda have to agree with this.

I'm a big fan of the phenolic ring tweeter.................... properly applied of course.

Tearing apart a working 420 to recone it as a 416 would only make sense in very very limited situations IMO.

There has lately been a resurgence of interest in the bi-flex models and not that long ago some well preserved examples have sold as pairs nearing the five hundred dollar mark on epay.

I totally agree with the suggestion of flipping them and using the proceeds to buy components better fitting your needs/wants.

Dgwojo makes a great suggestion with the Usher, Goldwood also makes some decent bass drivers for not a lotta dough.

For the money you'll be hard pressed to beat the performance of the Dayton 15 inch pro woofer when PE offers it on sale.

Just my 2 cents y'all understand..............................
 
I'd try the Vifa H26TG35s. It's a horn loaded dome with good sensitivity and excellent sound, I've used them and they sound very sweet and natural. They're $30 each at Madisound.
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TB, i think he has the 420's that mount the tweeter coaxially, would the vifa be shallow enough for him to keep that mounting scheme?

I think the coaxial positioning of the tweeter is the best for imaging/soundstage with the 420's, i've been rather impressed with them in the past actually.
 
bowtie427ss said:
TB, i think he has the 420's that mount the tweeter coaxially, would the vifa be shallow enough for him to keep that mounting scheme?
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I don't know. However Vifa makes a slightly shallower version of the driver without the back chamber.

In any case I think all this fella needs to get rolling is a good tweeter, any other ideas? Peerless makes an inexpensive horn loaded dome too,I have one but never played with it. Maybe I will today, I have a new bi-amping rig going now, should be easy to plug the Peerless in.
 
I only suggested the 416 conversion if he plans on not replacing the tweeters.

I have a set of Madrid cabs that the 420Y was no good in so they were modded w/ a 12" speaker from a model 14 and a nice Altec dome tweeter. I will probably go ahead and remove the dome and replace it w/ a horn at some point. This cab in this configuration is also in desperate need of porting IMO and will be the next project for these.


madrid.jpg
 
Thanks for the advice, Tom. I think I'm going to try a pair of good tweeters before I go spending $400. Does anyone know what impedance the current tweeter is? Should I mount the new one over the woofer just like the current one, or mount it above the woofer and make a simple crossover?
 
MX---SS is right, they're 8 ohms nominally. I've been doing some digging and evidently the crossover was first order at 3500hz.

I'd try to mount a new tweeter on the strap if possible. First you need to choose a tweeter and then see if it will fit or if you can make it fit with some kind of kludged together adaptor or whatever.

What I'd do, and mind I'm only speaking for myself, giving an opinion, is try the Vifas with a first order high pass at 4000hz. I think one could mount them to the strap, if not then to the cabinet.

The spec sheet on the tweeter shows the impedence by frequency, it'll be easy to figure what cap to use as a high pass. Or simply call Madisound; if you order the tweeters there they'll steer you straight.

That's what I'd do anyway. If it doesn't sound good you're not out much but IMO it should sound good, those are nice tweeters.
 
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