When it sounds good it sounds good!

[Condorsat]

The room and the placement of gear, especially speakers is equally important as the hardware that is picked out...if not more so. You cannot make the best of gear reach its potential when improperly set up.

QFT ... Jim Smith talks about this extensively is his book and DVD series Get Better Sound.

I'm not a user of Hi End systems ... I swim in the Mid Fi waters (from an Audiophile's perspective) but I have found techniques like speaker placement to be vitally important as well.

For example in the YouTube video below, a desktop PC speaker user complains about the overpowering base on the Audioengine A2's :lmao: ... the problem is that the speakers are too close to the wall. I own these speakers and I had to add a sub to make the base sound good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlinn8G8R20

 

[coonmanx]

To each his own. I have good sounding equipment. Is there better stuff out there? Surely. But if you have the cash why not spend it? You can' take it with you when you're gone.

 

[c.coyle]

Nice thread, we have all heard the BEST sound system on earth, just walk out the door and visit nature(birds tweeting, wind blowing the leaves, waves crashing, crickets, thunder, pure and unadulterated, wireless, natural sound the way we were meant to perceive it, can we improve on that? So the quest for the best sound system seems pointless when dollars and SENSE are involved.

It is an empty quest that has no end, only to satisfy ones sensory perceptors, but it sure is a fun hobby. I'll probably stick with what I have, maybe a new amp when this one burns out, but it's all old, used, and sounding fine.

+1

"Like Buddah at the sermon when he didn't say a word
If you think you hear a flower, it's a flower that you heard."

-- Ozark Mountain Daredevils

 

[Kneedeepinit]

I definitely agree with diminishing returns, and it starts with high level midfi for me.
I happily listen to Adcom / Klipsch KG4 setup that I assembled for under 1K, and also the high level Denon mini system that's 1K.

Although I am slowly coming to appreciate the 62 grand system and the different aesthetic experience it offers, it's not worth 62 times the money in my book.

If I were advising my sons and daughters on audio, I would recommend them to stop with good midfi and never venture into the prohibitively expensive hifi land, with it's infamous diminishing returns - there is plenty of enjoyment to be had in variety of midfi setups...

I agree. Once you are at the top of mid-fi, money is better spent on the room treatments. I am at that point where the improvement gained from better equipment is marginal at best.

 

[charles 1973]

IMO once we reach a certain level of SQ, we can really appreciate the music we love best. It seems our ears adjust to some degree to the sound of most decent systems. While we each have different, sometimes vastly different stereo set-ups, I believe I for one would be quite happy with a bunch of the different set ups here on AK if they were trying to achieve the same sound I enjoy. It's got more to do with achieving the sound we want, rather than the cost. I recently heard a pair of BIG $14,000 horn loaded speakers for example, that do not have the sound I look for. I prefer nearly every large stand-mount and midsize tower I heard that sold for as low as 1/5 the price.

That said, I do believe we get what we pay with new equipment from reputable brands if if they have the sound we want. The cost of diminishing returns on new equipment is different for every one. A struggling student looking for a dorm system might only be able to afford a $500 package. For a really successful business owner, or lottery winner, Who really likes music, perhaps a $30,000 system is the cost of diminishing return.


I agree that room treatments are a big factor. In fact, In a small - midsize well laid out room that's acoustically neutral, a single pair of high quality bookshelves with a 6.5 - 8.0" woofer with a mid priced amp, like say a Rega Brio-R and a good clean source might produce a more pleasant overall sound than a mega system in a less than ideal room. Even my modest Energy C1 bookshelves with a 5.5" woofer I use for the TV, with something like that Rega amp sounds way better than it has any right too.

 

[SPEC2man]

Great points ... the room is critical and since home construction can be by far the most expensive upgrade, room treatments and speaker placement can do more for overall sound than money poured into equipment.

I cant believe I left that out.

Funny story .. I was not a fan of B&W speakers. Back in the early 90's I had just dumped my 4000 watt PA system in search of a more delicate sound. No matter how much volume I threw at my system I couldn't get the sound I wanted. I did my research and scheduled a demo to audition the famous B&W 802's. I was always in belief that having a ton of headroom and efficient speakers was the key. Get the distortion to almost zero ... Q points be damned! I spent about an hour with the 802's which at the time would have cost me twice the value of my entire system. I flat hated them ... I was convinced B&W was a bullshit company. Well, about two years later I had the absolute pleasure of hearing the Nautilus 800's in a dialed in system placed in the perfect room. The owner explained to me how critical the placement and amplifier selection were. To this day it remains one of the most enjoyable demos I have ever had the pleasure of sitting through. Not five years later I heard the 802D's and was leveled. They are a fantastic speaker. WTF? It was then I started to realize the SYSTEM is what creates sound and not one single component. The "system" includes not just the basic audio system but the room, wire, speaker placement, room treatments, media, the listeners ears and mood.

Now try and quantify that?

For me, it's sometimes the ultimate attention to detail that creates the "ah ha" moment. Hat's off to all the guys that can get to it without spending a fortune and I cant give enough praise to those of you who resurrect classic equipment and put it to work.

God bless the audio technicians like Pat Hickman and Terry Dewick who pull dead classics from the grave and give them a second life.

 

[titanstats]

So getting back to the OP's post; What some might see the hassle of constantly looking for better and better, can lead you to a firm understanding of what you like over time. Buying used gear let me play and learn for little or no money. I actually liked all the back and forth. It was never about "I'm better than you" in fact I rarely played the main system when people were around. I wasn't looking for compliments or criticisms. I know that no one hears the way I do, or has my messed up musical tastes, so each system sounds different to each individual. It's about learning and experiencing. I'm sure I'm not the only one out there who has gone down this path.

My favourite post in this thread. I'm probably fortunate that I don't know any people who really give a crap about audio, or participate in an audio forum, or fool around with old/newer gear. This is stuff I just do for me -- I just love music, always have, and want it to sound nice when I want it to sound nice.

 

[Gang-Twanger]

If the credibility of the source of the validation is known then said validation (or otherwise) can be a very useful metric in building a system....provided improving it is a desired result.

Most-definitely. I wouldn't have the gear I do without the input and opinions of others. This game is an art. Takes time, practice, and lots of trial & error, not to mention reading. I've been at it 5 years now, and I'm just barely scratching the surface when it comes to the logistics of it. Vinyl playback is a long process with a huge learning curve. My system could be a lot better if I could just get a handle on certain things. I have the right gear for what I want, but I'm still getting it all tied down, you know? And for me, that definitely takes the input of others to make it happen, at least for yours truly.

 

[bluesky]

Satisfied... almost.

 

[SuperjazzyJa]

Cost and diminishing returns are easy subjects for anybody to have an arm chair discussion about. However one thing that outsiders in their arm chairs can barely comment or advise on is how close you're getting to chasing the sound you want. That's where things can really get expensive however that's also where nobody can make a valid comment concerning whether or not its worth it other than yourself.

Well put! :thmbsp:

 

[noise gate]

I"ve pretty much adopted the "Rat Rod" philosophy to audio. The whole " it's not what you got, but how you use it" thing.

I like to assemble systems . Source, Amplification, Speakers. Play with placement & listening position and see how good I can get the sweet spot to sound. Then add up what I have into the combination. I have a package hooked up in the garage at the moment, total investment not including cables is $55.00. Put in the right CD and it sounds freekin amazing.

If someone has gobs of cash and wants to put together a Wet Dream system, more power to them. I'm happy picking up cast offs and experimenting.