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When the smarter choice is actually a step down

Interesting discussion!

When I got back into this hobby 7 years ago, I started off with a MAC1900. It was a step up from my nad c750bee, and I very quickly discovered that my boss 8.2s weren't cutting it any more. So a speaker upgrade was required. I decided on a nice pair of Celestion Ditton 66s.

Mistake! I didn't know/consider how important it is to match the amp with the speakers. Shortly after that, I upgraded (?) to a restored 9090. Still didn't sound like I thought it should. The dittons went and I went on a shopping spree to find the sound. It took a while but I eventually found it with a restored Kenwood supreme 500 and a pair of Kef concertos. At that time, it cost me $750 to get that. But I was in the hole for losses or purchases I made that I bought high. So I started buying and selling gear, and started experimenting with different speaker/amp combinations. I learned a lot, and if I were to start over with the knowledge I have now, I know I could get excellent sound for under $500. No problem! Will it be as good as the gear I now have, no! But my ears will adjust and I would love it!

The next shift I went through was when I bought my Bose 1801 for my basement system. It needed work, so I decided to look for good matching speakers and a 4401 preamp, while the work went on. Eventually, I settled on a pair of ESS AMT 1aM speakers. When I got my Bose amp back. I hooked it all up rubbing my hands with glee in anticipation to finally hear it all together. Was I ever disappointed! It sounded like crap!

I discovered over the next hour, that all the cds I uploaded as mp3s were no longer listenable due to the high resolution of the amp and speakers. Solution was to buy my cds all over again and upload them as apple lossless. Of course I was also getting back into vinyl by then. Now I have thousands of both!

You can get an excellent sounding system for minimal expense if you are smart and buy your speakers and amp together. It is worth a premium to get the synergy right at the start, trust me!
 
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hughman61 said:
My understanding is the Sansui 9090, 8080 with the DB (Dolby) feature are somewhat overpriced and not that necessary. A straight 9090 or 8080 are much more reasonable.
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Same holds true for the Sansui quads ... the QRX 6/7001 both use the exact same TOTL vario-matrix decoders as their much more expensive and troublesome 8/9001 cousins. Difference is in additional features like dolby and such, and of course, power output, not to mention the smaller ones are much easier to refurb and repair.

** I use an external amp on the main channels, so power output isn't really a concern. The 6001 was more than capable of driving a couple extra rooms, while the big amp did the duty in the main listening room. The dolby is also a bit of a dead end tech, although it does enhance FM listening quite a bit.

That said ... I couldn't resist a reasonably inexpensive "needs work" 9001 as I'd been lusting for one for many years. Took a whole lotta work, and some serious hair pulling and fingernail nibbling, but I was able to get the monster to sing once again, fully reconditioned and factory fresh. I now know I own and enjoy THE King of Quad in all it's OEM glory.

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Not to say I'd ever let my 6001 go. That, if nothing else, is a really fine backup, just in case.
 
BilboBaggins said:
I discovered over the next hour, that all the cds I uploaded as mp3s were no longer listenable due to the high resolution of the amp and speakers. Solution was to buy my cds all over again and upload them as apple lossless.
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Good point, and I won't get into the whole where'd your old cd's go as you needed to keep those to legally use the MP3's you ripped from them. Main point is to keep them as a backup, just in case. I much prefer the convenience of point 'n click from the HTPC, and went through the same sort of thing you did, having originally stored everything as WAV lossless. Great sound, but a PITA to attach tags as they're not stored inside the track files and need a "sidecar". Anyway, I put all my CDs on spindles first time around and it was easy enough to re-rip them to FLAC - do that in jRiver Media Center, and it automagically adds the tags and cover art, as well as sorts the categories for easy browsing. FLAC is lossless, and pretty much the standard for PC, so I think I'm good now.

PS ... if you do have any ripped to MP3 256 VBR, give those a try. That's what Amazon is using for their downloads, and the sound quality ain't all that bad.
 
Yeah, I got rid of them. Not doing that this time though, and I have way more than I ever had before. Not planning on moving for a good while either! :)
 
sqlsavior said:
... where undisturbed caked-on dust and cigarette burns are valued as "patina"?
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Sounds similar to the vintage guitar market. A few companies, Fender is probably the best known for this, sell relics that are pre-worn. Want a guitar that looks as old as the hills? Pay someone to faux age it for you. It sounds crazy, but it's a big market.
 
I believe most of us are on some kind of budget that restricts monetary outflow for audio gear. That means we have to compromise. No harm in that.

I still yearn for better gear in my second system as that's actually the one I listen to the most. I'd love to get a pair of KEF LS50s based on the glowing reviews. However, I have 3 other pair of bookshelf speakers that are already paid for. So, I make due.

Sometimes when I get the urge to upgrade, I wonder if it's actually upgrade-itis, or if it's just a need for a change of pace. Occasionally, when I swap out the bookshelves in the second system with one of the other pair, I will find myself happy again for a spell. Then after a few months I feel an urge to change things up a bit. I'm really not sure I could be content for a long time with a better pair of bookshelfs, such as the LS50s, or if I just enjoy listening to something different every now and then. Life used to be so simple when I'd get the urge to upgrade/change stuff around every 10 years instead of every few months like today. :D
 
Alobar said:
Wow! That is so cool... :thumbsup:
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You know I play with everything, I don't care what it is, it's "Sound" and they are all different. The evolution of sound quality, some of it is ingrained in my memories from my youth and I can even listen to that today. It's also another reason I have to look at opinions that say a 40 year old piece of equipment sounds better than what you can buy today, sorry that's not true. Everything was built better 40 years ago, sorry that's not true. I like my old gear and the sound quality, that is true for a given individual.
 
Dr. Morbius said:
Sometimes when I get the urge to upgrade, I wonder if it's actually upgrade-itis, or if it's just a need for a change of pace.
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Dr. Morbius said:
Life used to be so simple when I'd get the urge to upgrade/change stuff around every 10 years instead of every few months like today.
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I find I get a big upgrade when I don't listen to my main system for a bit. For me upgrading cost a lot and like you said the improvement only seems to last a little while. I'll call it acclimating to the sound, once that's done we want better. If we step away from what we have already built into a awesome sound system, acclimating to something else notably not as good. We can go back to our main system and just say wow, I did good.
 
4-2-7 said:
She's pretty

There is nothing like listening to a game on mono AM:)
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Always kinda partial to those old RCA 5 tubers, especially with the dual speakers. Just fixed my slinky antenna too ... new cable was all it needed to drag the world in. Hard to find a 10khz step that DOESN'T have something on it.

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Two brass slinkies soldered together and end fed. Nice and compact - 25 feet long with an effective length something like 140 feet, You can fine tune it by clamping coils together. It's just stretched out along a couple lengths of trimmer cord fastened to a couple existing masts. Durable too ... been up there for maybe 10 years now.
 
JoeESP9 said:
Why not just listen to music that was recorded with a higher quality? If you do no "step down" is necessary.
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That's not always possible for fans of classical music unless they're willing to trade off musical values for production values. I'm not willing to make that trade. If I want to hear Richard Strauss's Ein Heldenleben, for example, I'll listen to Toscanini's mono broadcast recording from 1941 or Reiner's early stereo recording from 1954 in preference to most of the modern recordings that offer better recorded sound in the service of a less exciting performance.
 
4-2-7 said:
It's also another reason I have to look at opinions that say a 40 year old piece of equipment sounds better than what you can buy today, sorry that's not true. Everything was built better 40 years ago, sorry that's not true
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I think that is true too. Todays audio makers cater to a much more affluent customer than who much of the vintage gear was being marketed to. Those lower to middle class customers that were buying in the past today are simply not spending money on audio, at least not 2 channel. I was buying stereo gear in the early 70's when I was 17 years old. Nowadays younger people have other distractions but some people did really well for themselves and today they can easily drop a cool $50K without breaking an economic sweat. That kind of money buys amazing gear that 99% of the vintage gear cannot touch!
For me it's all good, from any generation! Much like you listening to the old consoles, I can get enjoyment from my 40 year old stuff without throwing stones at anybody, unless a rock flies through my window first, then all bets are off!
 
I'm very happy with the result of my spending spree. I had been saving for a pair of Cornwalls or Choruses because I like the big Klipsch sound. Time passed as local offerings just weren't near as nice as the pair I wanted, but I kept saving and wound up with the system in my signature. Quite a few folks dislike Klipsch, of course, but none of them live here in my skin with my ears, so it all worked out fine. Procure what you like and damn the torpedos! I did go with new amps, and for exactly the reason posited by the OP. Plus, I require remote control.

Everyone has to decide his own approach, and our budgets differ widely. I do heartily agree that choosing the speaker first is the best way to begin, so that you don't end up underpowered. Though some believe in buying monster power from the get-go, that tends to be pricey with vintage gear.

My way was vintage speakers with new preamp and amp. Well, that custom-built ST-70 variant does have an original pair of Dynaco OPTs, but the rest, including chassis and power transformer are all new, built less than a year ago. So a new tube amp with a vintage heritage. It's not all black and white when it comes to choosing what to buy. Mix it up. Works for me.
 
Alobar said:
For me it's all good, from any generation! Much like you listening to the old consoles, I can get enjoyment from my 40 year old stuff without throwing stones at anybody, unless a rock flies through my window first, then all bets are off!
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LOL that's how it should be for everybody, but should listen intelligently to truths without an inferiority or superiority complex. Admitting to oneself why we have what we have and know mostly it's all about the economics at least when it comes to SQ.

Nostalgia, collecting and electronics as a hobby is entirely a whole other story and nothing to do with sound quality, just sound and does it work. Like my vintage gear...:p
 
Alobar said:
Those lower to middle class customers that were buying in the past today are simply not spending money on audio, at least not 2 channel. I was buying stereo gear in the early 70's when I was 17 years old. Nowadays younger people have other distractions
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One other thing what your saying is true but the majority where not buying TOTL separates or even components. They where buying consoles and all in ones like the cheap Zenith Cobra above.

Today the youth also has to spend a ton of money on communication, games and music. If we had some dimes in our pockets we where good, a few albums and tapes. The devaluation of the dollar is what the problem is...

Look at the 1930 radio and phono heres the factory line in 1930.

Here are the 5 models they had and price

The Hepplewhite Model 120, Radio only $136.00

The Sheraton Model 130, Radio only, $152.00

The Late Italian Model 140, Radio only, $172.00

Mine
The Queen Anne Model 150, Radio & Phono, $198.00

The Georgian Model 160, Radio & Phono, $270.00
 
4-2-7 said:
LOL that's how it should be for everybody, but should listen intelligently to truths without an inferiority or superiority complex. Admitting to oneself why we have what we have and know mostly it's all about the economics at least when it comes to SQ.

Nostalgia, collecting and electronics as a hobby is entirely a whole other story and nothing to do with sound quality, just sound and does it work. Like my vintage gear...:p
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God I am glad we settled that!
 
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