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Which 12" Tonearm?

MX117.MC7150

MX117.MC7150

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Having a new plinth built for my Denon DP-80 TT and am looking at 12" tonearms for <$2K. Thus far, have looked (on-line) at the SME M2-12R, GrooveMaster II, Ortofon TA-210, Jelco SA-750EB & TK-850L and Abis TA1L. My preference is for radial rather than knife-edge bearings and the GrooveMaster II is leading the pack as it comes standard with silver wiring. However, the screaming bargain is the SA-750L. Even adding in the Ammonite base rings, it is still <$1K with a decent IC. Anyone have any other choices that I've missed. A 12" SME V would be nice, but the $6K hit would be well beyond my budget.



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To be honest I think you pay a premium for a 12" arm and don't get any significant practical advantages. If you do a bit of reading, a 10 to 10.5 inch arm has almost the same tracing distortion, but its far easier to find good examples of them. Even the standard length SME V I have has far better tracking characteristics than a lot of other arms, and I would choose it for its overall performance versus a run of the mill 12" arm. I have a 12" String Theory arm on my Sp 10 MK II, and I would lose no sleep replacing it with a 9 or 10" arm.

Cheers
Mister Pig
 
Yep........... know about several of the various addition parts for the Jelco SA-750L ($251, plus shipping, last I looked at the VTA adjuster). And, am aware of the arguments concerning 12" TAs. However, the DP-80 is very large in diameter and I prefer a 12" TA. Would not be selling my SA-750DB if it did not sit so close to the DP-80 as I've always preferred 9" TAs. However, going with 12" for this build.
 
MX117.MC7150 said:
Yep........... know about several of the various addition parts for the Jelco SA-750L ($251, plus shipping, last I looked at the VTA adjuster). And, am aware of the arguments concerning 12" TAs. However, the DP-80 is very large in diameter and I prefer a 12" TA. Would not be selling my SA-750DB if it did not sit so close to the DP-80 as I've always preferred 9" TAs. However, going with 12" for this build.
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Remember the saying. Bigger is better. :D
 
Indeed................ nothing succeeds like excess. ;) Now, where did I put that 16" tonearm?

Wonder if the Ortofon TA-210 is an 'upgrade' from the Jelco branded TAs, considering that all three are built by Jelco?
 
Some food for thought....The effective mass of the Groovemaster according to this review https://www.stereophile.com/content/listening-182-audio-creative-groovemaster-ii-tonearm is 22gr and states it is best suited for carts with low compliance like the Denon DL-103 and Ortofon SPUs. That high EM can limit cartridge choices and may not be compatible with your Lyra Kleos (compliance of 12 at 100Hz so about 20 @10hz) and maybe not your Ortofon Kontrapunkt b (compliance of 12 at 10Hz). I used an AT arm that had an EM of 21gr and found it too limiting so I switched it out for a SA-750E that has a EM of around 14gr and works with more cartridges. Just me, but if I had a Kleos I'd focus on a tonearm for that cartridge and while I own a Jelco I don't think I'd choose it for a top-end cart like the Lyra. YMMV.
 
MX117.MC7150 said:
Yep........... know about several of the various addition parts for the Jelco SA-750L ($251, plus shipping, last I looked at the VTA adjuster). And, am aware of the arguments concerning 12" TAs. However, the DP-80 is very large in diameter and I prefer a 12" TA. Would not be selling my SA-750DB if it did not sit so close to the DP-80 as I've always preferred 9" TAs. However, going with 12" for this build.
Click to expand...

12" arms are much less common, so retail prices tend to be a bit crazy. But then this also works in the opposite direction when it comes to the used market. Pay attention to effective mass, some 12" arms are really up there. I was seriously considering a new Jelco, that is until this one popped up on local audiomart. Talk about a no brainer!

sys_6.JPG
 
Beautiful. My plinth will be similar (using an HRS DPX-09545 as the arm board) with ISO-pucks as feet. Wish I could afford a Graham TA. The more I look at the Abis TA-1L the better it looks.
 
Legrace said:
12" arms are much less common, so retail prices tend to be a bit crazy. But then this also works in the opposite direction when it comes to the used market. Pay attention to effective mass, some 12" arms are really up there. I was seriously considering a new Jelco, that is until this one popped up on local audiomart. Talk about a no brainer!

View attachment 1364811
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Nice Reed tonearm! What kind of wood is the "tube"?
 
You are on a nice glide path to a great TT. I also looked into getting a custom plinth but it was too expensive. You are lucky to be able to afford nice walnut one.

Incidentally, my arm is by Reed (model 3P), not Graham. I always wanted one of these or a TriPlanar.

AvFan said:
Nice Reed tonearm! What kind of wood is the "tube"?
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Cocobolo tube/silver wire/Furutech RCA's

Edit: AvFan just noticing your sig, I am having a Sutherland PHd, what a beast.
 
Ahh, you have inside connection, very fortunate.

Arm selection is tricky business, good luck with your search.
 
What about Jelco's new knife edge bearing arm???

https://www.jelco-ichikawa.co.jp/cn3/tk-850l.html

What few opinions I can find, they all say it's a big step up from the gimbaled Jelco...Herb Reichart just reviewed a turntable with it on it and he loved the arm....

If you dig around one of the US sites has it on sale until tomorrow for less than a grand.....

David .
 
Two things, first the Jelco is a real bargain of an arm, it will sound as good as anything else even arms costing a lot more money. It is beautifully made and it has oil damping which extends the compliance too. My opinion too is the Jelco is a real bargain in that there are a lot of far more expensive arms that will have far worse construction and bearings, people dont give the Jelco the credit they are due, dont judge them on their cheap price. I have on one of my turntables a 12inch Jelco. I love it but wish I had gone for the 9 or 10 inch as the 12 inch being slightly higher effective mass limits cart use for no real gain as Mr Pig said. The 12 inch looks great on my massive Cpmmonwealth 36kg plinth but sonically with the number of different carts I have I would have benifited from the shorter arm as more of my carts would have been a compliance match for the shorter Jelco.
Chris
 
cafe latte said:
I love it but wish I had gone for the 9 or 10 inch as the 12 inch being slightly higher effective mass limits cart use for no real gain as Mr Pig said.
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The 12" Jelco actually has LESS effective mass than their 9" and 10" arms. I agree that they are beautifully made, and sound excellent. The oil damping is a nice touch, and quite effective, IME.



You should follow your own advice, and try your other carts! ;)
 
sqlsavior said:
The 12" Jelco actually has LESS effective mass than their 9" and 10" arms. I agree that they are beautifully made, and sound excellent. The oil damping is a nice touch, and quite effective, IME.



You should follow your own advice, and try your other carts! ;)
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Something to try over the looking to be rainy Christmas :)
 
kozzmo99 said:
What about Jelco's new knife edge bearing arm???
https://www.jelco-ichikawa.co.jp/cn3/tk-850l.html
What few opinions I can find, they all say it's a big step up from the gimbled Jelco...Herb Reichart just reviewed a turntable with it on it and he loved the arm....
David .
Click to expand...
Yes.......... its high on my list.
If one does some digging they will find Art Dudley's reviews of the GrooveMaster II and Abis TA-1L 12" tonearms, both of which he liked. However, for me, Art's analog reviews are not as meaningful as they could be due to his selection of cartridges. While the DL103 is fine (used to own one), his use of the SPU is not all that relevant to many, if not most, of us.

Think it is boiling down to Jelco or Jelco. Radial or knife-edge bearing. Decisions, decisions..........
Have a Merry Xmas & Happy New Year.
 
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