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Which cartridge? Ortofon 2M Black or Grado Sonata -1

slippers-on said:
All depends what you mean by lush and warm.
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what bothered me about the 2 M black was on the tables I tried it on it just sounded Ok and not spectacular which i think it should for what Ortofon is asking for it and the fact that it's there top of the line in the 2M series.. and as I said it certainly was far from Lush and warm
 
Stanton681EEES said:
what bothered me about the 2 M black was on the tables I tried it on it just sounded Ok and not spectacular which i think it should for what Ortofon is asking for it and the fact that it's there top of the line in the 2M series.. and as I said it certainly was far from Lush and warm
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What tables did you try it on?
 
I just bought a Statement Master. I've noticed a real lack of info on these low output Grado woodies (I guess thanks to the requirement of high gain and 47k loading), so we should all write up a thread with our impressions since we will have the top three versions between us.

Oh, and to throw another suggestion for phono stage- the Musical Surroundings offerings have a lot of flexibility. I will use mine to get 58dB of gain and 50k loading.
 
Stanton681EEES said:
what bothered me about the 2 M black was on the tables I tried it on it just sounded Ok and not spectacular which i think it should for what Ortofon is asking for it and the fact that it's there top of the line in the 2M series.. and as I said it certainly was far from Lush and warm
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I think your problem was the table and not the cart....no offence.

That Cart cost more than both tables put together. That's like me running a Pass Labs XP-30 through a ADCOM 5400. The fine detail and sophistication of the XP-30 will never shine through because of the limitations of the out classed amp....same with the 2MB.


SL-1100A 75-77 B 0.003 70 SERVO 0.01 5 NO NO M YES R 370.00


SL-1800MK2 79-81 B 0.025 78 QUARTZ 0.002 6 YES NO 9.125 M YES R 300.00
 
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slippers-on said:
I think your problem was the table and not the cart....no offence.

That Cart cost more than both tables put together. That's like me running a Pass Labs XP-30 through a ADCOM 5400. The fine detail and sophistication of the XP-30 will never shine through because of the limitations of the out classed amp....same with the 2MB.


SL-1100A 75-77 B 0.003 70 SERVO 0.01 5 NO NO M YES R 370.00


SL-1800MK2 79-81 B 0.025 78 QUARTZ 0.002 6 YES NO 9.125 M YES R 300.00
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I respectfully disagree as the gentleman i got it from used it on a a JVC Y66F as well as a couple other tables of his friends, and felt like I did he was very disappointed by it sold it and got a Ortofon Vivo Blue and loves it,

With a Shibata stylus I doubt it would ever sound warm and lush. In fact I had a OC9MKII on loan as well from the same person it to my ears and system sounded so much better, than the 2 M Black. I'm not saying the black was bad but other cartridges I've heard or tried costing far less were more enjoyable to listen to. My 1800MKII may have cost 300 new but it has had several upgrades that I mentioned in my post. So I believe your wrong.
 
Stanton681EEES said:
I respectfully disagree as the gentleman i got it from used it on a a JVC Y66F as well as a couple other tables of his friends, and felt like I did he was very disappointed by it sold it and got a Ortofon Vivo Blue and loves it,

With a Shibata stylus I doubt it would ever sound warm and lush. In fact I had a OC9MKII on loan as well from the same person it to my ears and system sounded so much better, than the 2 M Black. I'm not saying the black was bad but other cartridges I've heard or tried costing far less were more enjoyable to listen to. My 1800MKII may have cost 300 new but it has had several upgrades that I mentioned in my post. So I believe your wrong.
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Ok this is what I know of warm and lush...


Warm - Good bass, adequate low frequencies, adequate fundamentals relative to harmonics. Not thin. Also excessive bass or mid bass. Also, pleasantly spacious, with adequate reverberation at low frequencies. Also see Rich, Round. Warm highs means sweet highs.


Lush - Very Rich/Full.

Lush (2) - A "lush" sound has a sense of warmth and fullness. Notes are more authoritative and have a sense of life about them. It is a sound free of any sibilance or brightness. It does not mean colored, however. It is an open and inviting sound enveloping the listener into its soundstage. (source: unkown headfier)


Because this is what I experience every day with my 2MB.
 
I actually owned the 2M Black twice and sold it each time.I tried it on several tables here and there were times I heard greatness but most of the times I got a tad on the bright side and lots of noise in the background.I really wanted it to be great and took alot of effort and trying it on various SME tonearms and others but in the end I ended up dumping it twice. have owned the clearaudio maestro for 2 years now and never once thought about selling it and in fact purchaed another one recently.In my rounds I see often 2M Black going on sale at 1/2 price.I think that says alot right there.
 
scottyh777 said:
I actually owned the 2M Black twice and sold it each time.I tried it on several tables here and there were times I heard greatness but most of the times I got a tad on the bright side and lots of noise in the background.I really wanted it to be great and took alot of effort and trying it on various SME tonearms and others but in the end I ended up dumping it twice. have owned the clearaudio maestro for 2 years now and never once thought about selling it and in fact purchaed another one recently.In my rounds I see often 2M Black going on sale at 1/2 price.I think that says alot right there.
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That was the other thing i didn't like about as well.
 
I think you guys are just running them on arms they weren't designed for. In the right system, they are spectacular sounding cartridges.
 
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