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why are tube amps sporting such low RMS numbers?

30hz MAGIC

30hz MAGIC

Creator of earthquakes!
I don't know too much about tube amps.

For $200 I can get like 10 RMS per channel IF that. Why?

Why are they so low power per dollar spent? Do they use a different kind of RMS rating?

I'll give it to their looks but I'll be damned I spend $500 for 35WPC, just seems like a bad joke.
How the hell does anybody power a set of competent, powerful tower speakers with one?
Just seems impossible without paying your yearly salary.
 
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If you have inefficient power hungry speakers low powered tube amps are probably not for you. I run my 15w tube amp into my Klipsch horns and there is more than enough power. Speaker and amp pairing is very important. You might be surprised how many watts of power you actually need.
 
i was driving a pair of altec cabs with a magnavox "flea" 6bq5 single ended amp with ease. agreed, matching is important
 
Once you hear the right tube amp with a speaker you'll understand.

If you think tubes (in general) are expensive for the output wattage don't even look at SET's (single ended triodes).

I power my main ESL's with a pair of 60 Watt mono blocks.

Incidentally, speakers are not powerful. They use power.

The term for speakers that need lots of power is inefficient.
 
Grasshopper must understand the importance of quality over quantity.

Don't think it's just a "tube" thing either. The amplifiers i currently seek are solid state, 25wpc, and hover around the 1800 dollar each mark when they can be found.
 
I don't know much about tubes or have any real experience with them. Keep this in mind as you read. My understanding is that tube amps are generally louder than ss in regards to watts. Someone once posted that a 35 wpc tube amp was as loud as, if not louder than a 100 wpc ss amp.

In addition to that, you really don't need a whole lot of watts to have a loud system if that is what you're looking for. My wife's iPod dock/alarm clock can fill the bedroom with what is probably a 1 wpc or less ss amp. A lot depends on speaker sensitivity, room size and room acoustics.
 
bowtie427ss said:
Grasshopper must understand the importance of quality over quantity.

Don't think it's just a "tube" thing either. The amplifiers i currently seek are solid state, 25wpc, and hover around the 1800 dollar each mark when they can be found.
Click to expand...

I've heard good things about the Sonneteer 35 and 55 wpc integrated amps. They don't seem to be slouches in the volume department.
 
10 real watts would power my Klipsch Forte' to all I would want to hear

Probable less but is nice to have some reserve power :)
 
Consider that power output is not a cut-and-dried thing. To me, an amplifier is only as good as it's power supply. So would I rather have a 35 watt amp with a hefty, well-designed power supply, or a 350 watt amp with a "bare minimum" power supply? Obviously I would go for the 35 watt amp. That 35 watt amp would probably kick the pants off the 350 watter in every definable category, except (maybe) sheer volume output.

Unless you are trying to recreate a Whitesnake concert experience, the vast majority of listening is done at under 10 watts, and even a fair amount of that under 1 watt!

But if you really do need big wattage, a Crown Macrotech (or similar) amp is the way to go.
 
True. I only cross 10W threshold when I listen really loud (party loud). Even on most power hungry speakers I have I rarely go over 5W.

And: tube technology is way more expensive than ss, always was, and tubes + power are really expensive. This was one of the reasons solid state replaced tubes in the 1960s - it's cheaper. There were other reasons, like the hassle with having to replace tubes every often, heat, etc.

There was this British manufacturer in the 1980s and 1990s, Audio Innovations. They specialized in tube amps. At some point they wanted to add a reasonably priced tube amp with more WPC (35, to be exact) to their offer. They figured they couldn't, because tubes cost more, period. So they built their only solid state amp (Alto) and designed it to sound 'tubey' instead. Which it sort of does :)
 
Tubes are very inefficient devices. High power tubes are expensive too. Output transformers for high power are very complex and expensjve too. These all adds up.

Compare tube amps to classic cars. You won't get refinement, speed and power which are available from modern cars, but some folks just love them. Othewise how else price of restored 1960s Corvette can exceed cost of new Porsche GT2?
 
30hz MAGIC said:
I don't know too much about tube amps.

For $200 I can get like 10 RMS per channel IF that. Why?

Why are they so low power per dollar spent? Do they use a different kind of RMS rating?

I'll give it to their looks but I'll be damned I spend $500 for 35WPC, just seems like a bad joke.
How the hell does anybody power a set of competent, powerful tower speakers with one?
Just seems impossible without paying your yearly salary.
Click to expand...

Stick around long enough and you'll hear of $100K 5 watt amplifiers - and you need 2; $100K phono tone arms; $50K cartridges; $50K speaker cable; $500K turntables...speakers...don't ask.

The list of exotica is endless...and is no laughing matter to those serious desciples who have the means to afford the stuff.

The debate between tubes & SS is as old as the hobby itself and one best avoided. I own and enjoy both. :)
 
Generally speaking by far the most expensive part of any power amp is the transformer(s). Tube amps need a lot of current for modest power output which means big power transformers. PLUS output transformers which pound for pound are usually way more expensive than power transformers. And then there's at least one choke. So that's about 4 times the amount of iron than most SS amps use. Even $100+ power tubes cost is pale in comparison to the cost of iron.

As other's have mentioned power is not a good measure of how an amp will sound and for most listening on EFFICENT speakers 10 watts is all you'll ever need.
 
Consider -- an 8-ohm speaker with a sensitivity of 100 dB/watt at 1 meter sensitivity will produce 110 dB (dangerously loud) SPL (sound pressure level) at a distance of 1 meter away when supplied with a signal corresponding to 10 watts (28.3 volts into 8 ohms) of amplifier power.

Such a speaker, in general use, will likely be using less than 1 watt of power. Many amplifiers (particularly higher-powered ones) are simply not designed to provide their best performance at sub-watt power levels. Such a speaker is not well served by most high-power amplifiers.
 
SuperjazzyJa said:
I don't know much about tubes or have any real experience with them. Keep this in mind as you read. My understanding is that tube amps are generally louder than ss in regards to watts. Someone once posted that a 35 wpc tube amp was as loud as, if not louder than a 100 wpc ss amp.

In addition to that, you really don't need a whole lot of watts to have a loud system if that is what you're looking for. My wife's iPod dock/alarm clock can fill the bedroom with what is probably a 1 wpc or less ss amp. A lot depends on speaker sensitivity, room size and room acoustics.
Click to expand...


A 35 watt amp, regardless of topology, will not be able to drive the same pair of speakers as loud or louder than a 100 watt amp. Watts are watts.

The person who made the post your refer to was mistaken.

That said, there is a lot more to how well an amplifier drives a particular pair of speakers than sheer output power.
 
I sure as hell cross into the 500RMS+, sometimes into 2000RMS category while playing Blu-Rays and when I'm in an immersive mood for gaming.

How do you guys experience that IMax quality, earth shattering low frequency bass during movies with a tube amp??? Gotta feel like I'm REALLY in a theater.

I guess I just need power, I need impact while I listen to music. Club EDM is my thing, man!
Needs to feel like a club in here!

From what you guys are telling me, tubes aren't for me.
 
62caddy said:
Stick around long enough and you'll hear of $100K 5 watt amplifiers - and you need 2; $100K phono tone arms; $50K cartridges; $50K speaker cable; $500K turntables...speakers...don't ask.

The list of exotica is endless...and is no laughing matter to those serious desciples who have the means to afford the stuff.
Click to expand...

You'll hear about some of this stuff, stories and legends, but never from people who actually own it. It's a boogeyman thrown out there to assure the budget audiophiles on the site that some people spend way more than we think they should on stuff that in no way affects us.

I've heard of Yetis, too. Never had one over for dinner. :scratch2:
 
30hz MAGIC said:
I sure as hell cross into the 500RMS+, sometimes into 2000RMS category while playing Blu-Rays and when I'm in an immersive mood for gaming.

How do you guys experience that IMax quality, earth shattering low frequency bass during movies with a tube amp??? Gotta feel like I'm REALLY in a theater.

I guess I just need power, I need impact while I listen to music. Club EDM is my thing, man!
Needs to feel like a club in here!

From what you guys are telling me, tubes aren't for me.
Click to expand...


Yikes! That is some serious power. What amp(s) and speakers are you using to get that kind of output?
 
Jeffery said:
You'll hear about some of this stuff, stories and legends, but never from people who actually own it. It's a boogeyman thrown out there to assure the budget audiophiles on the site that some people spend way more than we think they should on stuff that in no way affects us.
Click to expand...

I don't know about that. I have visited a man - you may well know who he is but I'll not mention names - who owns at least $1M worth of equipment at each of his residences.

Many of these types tend to exist quietly - but make no mistake, they most certainly do exist.
 
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