• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Why choose LOMC cartridges?

Multiplex

Multiplex

Appease my earhole.
I'm sure this question has been asked before, but I have never really found a satisfactory answer.

There seems to be a pretty overwhelming consensus among those in the know that LOMC cartridges are the best. Obviously, LOMCs are about all you're likely to find in the $1000+ price range, (besides maybe strain gauge,) so they do seem to be the highest-end option. But say you are looking to spend from $400-$1000 on a new cartridge... Why do the upper-end MMs and MIs seem to be recommended less frequently than LOMC?

There are some pretty high-end MI/MM options out there... For example:

Audio Technica AT150MLX, AT150ANV
Nagaoka MP-300, MP500
Ortofon 2M Bronze, Black

...just to name a few.

Why don't these seem to get the same respect as some of the sub-$1000LOMC offerings by the likes of Audio Technica, Denon, Sumiko, Goldring and Clearaudio? Are MMs and MIs generally inferior? Or might there be, at least in some cases, a bit of unwarranted mystique or prestige regarding LOMC cartridges?

Since I have never had a good opportunity to audition truly high-end modern cartridges, I shall have to live vicariously through those who have. :music:

(BTW... I'm not asking this question for the purpose of starting a war. Please keep this thread friendly!)
 
Register to hide this ad
Moving coil cartridges are a mirror image of the cutter head. Amps send a signal to a coil attached to the cantilever. As the signal drives the cutter head the record is cut. A moving coil cartridge has a coil at the end of the cantilever. When the stylus traces the groove the coil moves in a magnetic field and generates a voltage. MC cartridges are thought to play records in the same way they were cut. Of course there are good and bad examples of all types of cartridges.

LOMC have smaller and lighter coils. More output would require larger coils with more wire. A low mass stylus/cantilever/coil system will reveal more of what is in the groove. To achieve low mass manufactures use nude stylus, exotic materials for the cantilever, small coils requiring delicate winding and magnets that help generate as much output from the coils.

Of course a LOMC is more difficult to load either through a step up transformer into a moving magnet phono stage or a phono preamp with capabilities for LOMC. My Benz MC Gold sounds better with my GSP Fanfare3 with 470 ohm loading than with my Moon 110LP that loads with 100 ohms. The AT F7 sounds better through the Moon 110LP. LOMC require more optimization to sound their best.
 
I can only tell you this. A dozen years or so ago I had only ever owned MMs. I then got an Ortofon used MC in a trade, and when I put it on...I had one of THOSE moments...I just couldn't believe how much more musical everything sounded. And I've been mainly an MC guy ever since, although I do own a 2M Black that I think sounds good and I use on occasion.
 
JohnMichael said:
Moving coil cartridges are a mirror image of the cutter head. Amps send a signal to a coil attached to the cantilever. As the signal drives the cutter head the record is cut. A moving coil cartridge has a coil at the end of the cantilever. When the stylus traces the groove the coil moves in a magnetic field and generates a voltage. MC cartridges are thought to play records in the same way they were cut. Of course there are good and bad examples of all types of cartridges.

LOMC have smaller and lighter coils. More output would require larger coils with more wire. A low mass stylus/cantilever/coil system will reveal more of what is in the groove. To achieve low mass manufactures use nude stylus, exotic materials for the cantilever, small coils requiring delicate winding and magnets that help generate as much output from the coils.

Of course a LOMC is more difficult to load either through a step up transformer into a moving magnet phono stage or a phono preamp with capabilities for LOMC. My Benz MC Gold sounds better with my GSP Fanfare3 with 470 ohm loading than with my Moon 110LP that loads with 100 ohms. The AT F7 sounds better through the Moon 110LP. LOMC require more optimization to sound their best.
Click to expand...

That is interesting... Makes sense. :yes:
 
In the price range you have stated, one is getting to the top of the MM and MI cartridges but just putting a toe in the water of the LOMC market. For that kind of increase in price over MM and MI, there has to be something other than bragging rights on what was spent, a not insignificant feature some need in the gear they have.

ehoove has been discussing the sound of some cartridges he has had a chance to listen to and these threads may be of interest to you. He has evaluated the Ortofon 2M Black in one thread and the ZYX Omega in another. He has other cartridges mentioned, too. But following up on what he talks about with the better cartridges that have visited my system, the top to bottom smoothness and balance, the clarity and the detail are a few of the improvements found in better cartridges.
 
Blue Shadow said:
In the price range you have stated, one is getting to the top of the MM and MI cartridges but just putting a toe in the water of the LOMC market. For that kind of increase in price over MM and MI, there has to be something other than bragging rights on what was spent, a not insignificant feature some need in the gear they have.

ehoove has been discussing the sound of some cartridges he has had a chance to listen to and these threads may be of interest to you. He has evaluated the Ortofon 2M Black in one thread and the ZYX Omega in another. He has other cartridges mentioned, too. But following up on what he talks about with the better cartridges that have visited my system, the top to bottom smoothness and balance, the clarity and the detail are a few of the improvements found in better cartridges.
Click to expand...

I will have to look into some of these threads. The recent thread that got me thinking about this, was sberger's thread about his VPI... He installed a "lowly" Grado cart with an 8MZ, and loves the sound, even when compared to some higher end carts that he has owned.
 
JohnMichael nailed it exactly... I have exactly the same phono front end and can't agree more!

When I heard this cart with my RB-300 arm and VPI table, I swore the combo was at least triple the price in regard to fidelity.

The general rule of thumb is to use the lowest output necessary; Benz Micro also has the equivalent higher output cart of the Benz Micro Gold called the Silver - with the same specs and price.
 
There are some great high output moving coil cartridges, however they tend to be the minority. I tend to use LOMC myself, with my two cartridges geing a ZYX 4D and a Clearaudio Signature. Both excel at detail, layering of the music, an expansive soundstage, and delicacy.

I tried a few MM and MI cartridges, and I can see the appeal to them. They have a texture and flow that is very alluring. However, I still see a significant loss of detail and nuance when compared to the better LOMC, and so they are not for me.

As fast as high output moving coils, the HOMC that I really appreciate is the Sumiko Blackbird. It comes closer to my ZYX than I am comfortable with, as it costs less than a 1/3 of that cartridge. I also hear very good things about Phase Tech cartridges, and they make two high output moving coils, the P3 Alexandrite. While I have not heard this cartridge, everything from the Japanese domestic market points it to being a fine cartridge. It is on my short list to hear.

In the past HOMC cartridges were compromised due to the extra coil windings that were needed to reach the desired output levels, and they were the lesser brother to the LOMC. It seems in some cases the performance gap has closed, and they may be a viable alternative. Although the cheaper ones likes the various Denons, and Ortofon X series still have their flaws. Kind of to be expected at those price points though.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
I don't know what it is either, but in my stable I have some of the most highly regarded MMs of all time - Audio Technicas all with nearly new or very very nice condition styluses ATML180, AT15SS, AT155LC, AT150MLX, AT25.

I just got my hands on my first LOMC, a like new AT34EII - It bests the MMs, all of them, by a decent margin. It just sparkles in the mids and highs and slams super accurate mid and sub bass. It's honestly a bit disheartening. I'm pretty seriously considering selling all my MM carts and starting a LOMC stable.
 
Mister Pig said:
There are some great high output moving coil cartridges, however they tend to be the minority. I tend to use LOMC myself, with my two cartridges geing a ZYX 4D and a Clearaudio Signature. Both excel at detail, layering of the music, an expansive soundstage, and delicacy.

I tried a few MM and MI cartridges, and I can see the appeal to them. They have a texture and flow that is very alluring. However, I still see a significant loss of detail and nuance when compared to the better LOMC, and so they are not for me.

As fast as high output moving coils, the HOMC that I really appreciate is the Sumiko Blackbird. It comes closer to my ZYX than I am comfortable with, as it costs less than a 1/3 of that cartridge. I also hear very good things about Phase Tech cartridges, and they make two high output moving coils, the P3 Alexandrite. While I have not heard this cartridge, everything from the Japanese domestic market points it to being a fine cartridge. It is on my short list to hear.

In the past HOMC cartridges were compromised due to the extra coil windings that were needed to reach the desired output levels, and they were the lesser brother to the LOMC. It seems in some cases the performance gap has closed, and they may be a viable alternative. Although the cheaper ones likes the various Denons, and Ortofon X series still have their flaws. Kind of to be expected at those price points though.

Regards
Mister Pig
Click to expand...

My best cartridges right now are all MI... Grado 8MZ, ADC ZLM, and B&O MMC20 CL... And yes, alluring would be a good word. I like the smooth warmth of that MI midrange. I have always thought about continuing up the Grado line when it comes time to upgrade. Yet, it would be quite fun to try something completely different. But, going LOMC would be a very big, and costly step. Plus, I think some other upgrades would be in order for the rest of my system... It's going to be a while before any of that can happen.
 
Interesting thread.

I am looking at getting the Sumiko Blackbird for my SR-929 (when I fix it) but there's a nagging thought in the back of my head that wonders if these better cartridges would be more suited to a better turntable.

To extract the best from a high quality cart would require a high quality table and tone arm. I fear that spending big $ on a top cart will not realise it's benefits if attached to a table that does not allow the cart to operate to its full potential.
 
river25 said:
Interesting thread.

I am looking at getting the Sumiko Blackbird for my SR-929 (when I fix it) but there's a nagging thought in the back of my head that wonders if these better cartridges would be more suited to a better turntable.

To extract the best from a high quality cart would require a high quality table and tone arm. I fear that spending big $ on a top cart will not realise it's benefits if attached to a table that does not allow the cart to operate to its full potential.
Click to expand...

Well the other option would be the Audio Technica OC 9 III from LP Gear for $499. Probably one of the better buys in the cartridge world. Boron cantilever, microridge stylus, good solid body.....got the essentials of a good cartridge.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
river25 said:
Interesting thread.

I am looking at getting the Sumiko Blackbird for my SR-929 (when I fix it) but there's a nagging thought in the back of my head that wonders if these better cartridges would be more suited to a better turntable.

To extract the best from a high quality cart would require a high quality table and tone arm. I fear that spending big $ on a top cart will not realise it's benefits if attached to a table that does not allow the cart to operate to its full potential.
Click to expand...

I also worry somewhat about the point of diminishing returns as I'm wanting to upgrade from my Benz Gold to the next level, one choice being the Blackbird. But as I read your post it dawns on me that you could really say that about almost any cart and any table.
 
My new Marantz TT-15 turntable comes with an exception to the rule - a MM cartridge in the price range you mention (~$900 separately) that is highly regarded - the Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood.

Other recent carts for me are: Denon DL-160 (HOMC), Denon DL-103 (LOMC), Benz-Micro Wood SM (LOMC) and Ortofon Synergy (LOMC).

The DL-160 sounded lively and detailed to me at first, but later sounded a bit harsh compared to the DL-103, which I quickly grew to really like. In the right arm (medium-high mass) it has to my ears great bass, good body, and a smooth top end. The Benz easily outclassed it in terms of detail and texture however, but left me missing some of the forceful impact of the DL-103.

The Virtuoso seems to have the best qualities of the Denon (great bass and kick-ass impact, treble smoothness) with the articulation of the Benz, if not quite the level of detail and texture. It's a very nice combination.

I've only heard my Ortofon Synergy for a couple of days, and need to get a mount made for my Jelco 12" tonearm to use it again. From my recollection it may well prove to be the overall winner when I get it going.

I think some folks who are unimpressed with MC carts have either:
a. heard poor examples
b. heard them through a poor MC gain stage instead of a good one, or a good transformer
c. a natural variation in hearing that makes MCs sound harsh or ring-y to them

I think even fair turntables can show off high-end cartridges to quite an extent - just as an amp would have to be pretty bad to make great speakers sound ordinary, a turntable would have to be pretty bad to mask or veil a great cartridge. A poor phono preamp is a much greater possibility, IMO.

:music:
 
To address the OP, I have yet to hear a fundamental explanation or reason I find convincing as to why LOMC engines would/should generically be superior per se. Being objective, I find the weight of reason suggests the opposite, if anything.

So personally, I attribute apparent superiority in the general class of LOMC carts to generally careful and well considered detailed design and build. And to an extent it seems almost catch 22 as to what standard of build such price points can budget for, and what performance might then be available. I think an overlap in price-performance at the top end of MM with LOMC is evidence of this, perhaps?

Just my opinions, as ever :pawprint:
 
Multiplex: The difference is mainly on the electrical side of things (electrical resonance and associated phase shift banned far above the audible range), but with most MMs and MIs sporting user-replaceable needles, while most MCs don't, the latter typically also have a bit of an advantage in terms of resonance. And then many manufacturers also have always reserved their best ingredients for MCs.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
One explanation I read long ago asserted that MCs are inherently immune to something called needle-drag distortion, caused by the stylus friction "tugging" at the cantilever, on (or nearly on) its axis.

Maybe it is easier to maintain a uniform magnetic field along that axis using relatively giant magnets, compared to the coil size.

The only reference to needle-drag distortion that I can find nowadays is a paper showing it exists in ceramic cartridges.

http://scitation.aip.org/content/asa/journal/jasa/24/2/10.1121/1.1906883
 
I wonder what table /arm the OP is using, and if it is cappable of extracting the best from the LOMC he seeks. Many but not all LOMC cartridges are of the low compliance ilk, and require a med to heavy arm to perform their best. An example would be the ZYX Omega which was very good in my Magnapan arm, went to extraordinary, and probably the best LOMC I have heard in my Jelco 750D arm.

There is more to a any cartridge, than just mounting it to a arm and lowering to the groove.

Regards,
Jim
 
river25 said:
Interesting thread.

I am looking at getting the Sumiko Blackbird for my SR-929 (when I fix it) but there's a nagging thought in the back of my head that wonders if these better cartridges would be more suited to a better turntable.

To extract the best from a high quality cart would require a high quality table and tone arm. I fear that spending big $ on a top cart will not realise it's benefits if attached to a table that does not allow the cart to operate to its full potential.
Click to expand...


That is also a concern of mine that a more expensive cartridge may not sound better using my same table and preamps. The synergy between the Benz and Fanfare is great.

If I were going to invest in an expensive cartridge with one of the more radical profile stylus I would want a tonearm with easy VTA adjustment. The Rega works fine with ellipticals using spacers. Close enough is not good enough in my mind for a multiple thousand dollar cartridge. I would also want a new preamp with lots of loading options.
 
sqlsavior said:
One explanation I read long ago asserted that MCs are inherently immune to something called needle-drag distortion, caused by the stylus friction "tugging" at the cantilever, on (or nearly on) its axis.
Click to expand...
That's interesting, sqlsaviour, but I don't see why it would be different between LOMC and MM? The effect of variations in stylus-groove friction is one of my soapbox sermons, so I don't doubt it can have profound and understated effects. But don't see why there should be a connection with LOMC?

As to uniformity of magnetic field, I doubt that as an explanation too. Because amplitude of movement of the armature is so small no matter whether LOMC or MM, variation hardly seems likely to be significant, as I see it. Should be straightforward to arrange suitable uniformity either way I think. I don't think it stands scrutiny, though agree at first it seems plausible. Besides, that would show up in harmonic distortion measurements, and that's not necessarily different between LOMC and MM, other things being equal.

:pawprint:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom