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Why do you like manual over auto turntable?

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RAJOD

RAJOD

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I see most of the high end turn tables are manual.

Why is this? Does the same high cartridge sound worse on a automatic vs a manual?

I know there is more to go wrong with an automatic but its nice not having to run over to life the needle when the record ends.

Are there auto or semi autos as good?
 
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I am lazy, so I automatically lean towards the automatic TT.

The theory is that with less happening between the groove and the output translates to better sound . . . that is the theory . . .

My experience, and others may differ, is that the theory is just that, a theory.

I use a JVC QL-Y66F which is filly automatic, and I have compared it with some quite decent "high end" manual TTs and the JVC, with the same needle and cart sounds at least equally as good and oft times better.

I have also compared the JVC with other automatic TTs and have found the same results.

I'm not saying the JVC is the best TT out there, it is not, but these vintage Japanese high end (relatively speaking) automatic TTs do sound exceptionally good.

The cost of building something like the vintage JVC and Denon type turntables today would be cost prohibitive.

P.S. Have you noticed that most current manufacturers do not publish their TT specs, no wow and flutter, no signal to noise ratio, no speed deviation, etc., and there may very well be a reason for that . . .

My 2 cents . . . . . . .

Cheers
 
Others may chime in here, but I think another reason for the popularity of manual turntables on the high end is the ability to change tonearms relatively easily. This is especially attractive to tinkerers, which many of us are, as well as to someone chasing the "perfect sound". You can't do that with an automatic turntable.
 
Rajod: Well, the basic idea is that parts that aren't there can't resonate, won't break or require maintenance and cost nothing, so that there is more budget for higher quality of the really necessary parts. However, as usual, in practice the principle may very well be less important than the actual implementation.

Personally I'd regard auto-stop & -lift, but no -return types of semi-automatics as pretty much the best compromise - but of course that'll most usually still mean that one can't really mount a different tonearm...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
It's very simple.

There are no high quality automatic TTs or arms.
Given the chance to build the ultimately best, the most skillfull manufacturer would get better sound from a manual arm/TT than from automatic likewise.

Reason is automatic would incorporate more compromising part, resonance, unprecision of the details needed for SQ etc.

Building high quality for the best of sound is contradictionary to building quality automation.
 
There are also people who just don't want to hear the "Click, whirl" of the automatic mechanism. It's enough to interrupt the experience for them.

I like semi-automatic but I am currently using a manual Pioneer. I do enjoy the interaction. It's just part of the game.
 
Ultralyd said:
It's very simple.

There are no high quality automatic TTs or arms.
Click to expand...

Hmm, as the owner of a Sony PSB-80 and a Pioneer PL-L1, I respectfully disagree with that observation. I suspect any Sony PS-X9 owners would disagree even more strongly!

However, I would agree with you that manuals are generally the best and that the vast majority of automatics involve some sort of sonic compromise.
 
Beobloke said:
Hmm, as the owner of a Sony PSB-80 and a Pioneer PL-L1, I respectfully disagree with that observation. I suspect any Sony PS-X9 owners would disagree even more strongly!

However, I would agree with you that manuals are generally the best and that the vast majority of automatics involve some sort of sonic compromise.
Click to expand...


Are you suggesting that Sony and Pioneer made any high-end TTs?
;-)
 
I have to agree with lini (prost!) I prefer the stop and lift of my HK T45 over any of the auto or manual TT's I have.

Sent from my LG-P769 using Tapatalk
 
Ever heard of the Exclusive P3? It is regarded as one of the best turntables of the era. Pioneer made it. Never sold outside the Japanese Domestic Market. Sony made a couple of high end manual turntables with separate arms which were and are highly regarded which again are uncommon. JVC has a manual or two which can be used with separate tonearms in alternate plinths which are very well regarded. Just to name some excellent examples.
 
KentTeffeteller said:
Ever heard of the Exclusive P3? It is regarded as one of the best turntables of the era. Pioneer made it. Never sold outside the Japanese Domestic Market. Sony made a couple of high end manual turntables with separate arms which were and are highly regarded which again are uncommon. JVC has a manual or two which can be used with separate tonearms in alternate plinths which are very well regarded. Just to name some excellent examples.
Click to expand...

You talk about TTs like if FIAT was a supercar and you never heard about Ferrari.
 
Had a bad experience once with an automatic turntable and it's colored my view on them ever since.

Technics Linear tracker that was suppose to be able to go to any track on the album (like a CD) by pushing a button. That feature never worked right.

It also had the annoying habit of lifting the cartridge off the record at the end before the LP was finished. This happened .... rarely but enough to be annoying ... on albums that crammed a lot of music on the record side close to the label.

Every so often it would also just stop working ... like fall asleep. You had to lift the lid up and down and then it would work again.

I kept the table a lot longer than I should have and eventually donated it to Goodwill. Was really happy to see the POS go.

Table looked similar to the one pictured below.

th


I've used manual TTs with cuing levers ever since ... I would never go back. I'm sure there are good automatic TTs out there ... but I have 0% interest in owning one.
 
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I've had all 3. None high end, but my manual KD550 is the closest to high end I've owned. It also beats out my second best table - an automatic Kenwood 5070 in sound quality. The build on the KD550 is much more impressive, although the automatic kenwood is better than the other TT I've owned over the years - most Japanese or British made.

I wonder of some of the difference is that the cost of the automatic components means compromises elsewhere.

Also, as stated above, manuals give more flexibility for changing arms, etc.

I use my manual in my main "listening system." However, I admit I miss the feature that shuts the system off at the end of play. Nothing worse than really being relaxed in my listening spot and having to get up to stop the record.

My automatic is used in my secondary systems where I might walk away because I'm playing background music in the living room/kitchen.

Different models for different uses!
 
I have auto and semi auto's. Though I have both types hooked up, I tend to gravitate to the semi auto as I notice a sonic difference.
 
I do not want any mechanism to interfere with my arm's ability to follow the groove. I prefer a manual table and really enjoy my Rega. I did own a Thorens 290 that lifted the arm at the end of the record which I agree is a nice compromise.
 
How about the Thorens TD-224? A fully auto Thorens TD-124!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4alSSBCPoY

Thorens_TD224.JPG


Or the Thorens TD-145 or 147? Semi-auto, lifts the arm at the end of a record.


I personally am partial to manual as well just because there are less things that can go wrong, easier to maintain, easier to mod.
 
As a mid-fi guy, I prefer my semi-automatics (Yamaha, B&O, Technics) because I am rarely in a mode of "just" listening to music and/or staying right by the equipment when a record is on. So I'm willing to make some sonic compromises. While I'm a tinkerer, have never gone down the rabbit hole of high end vinyl sound as the rest of my equipment wouldn't deliver on those goods...even if my 55 year old ears could hear the difference. I have one direct drive manual with a cue lever, a Kenwood, and I like it, but often take it out of rotation as it's less convenient (i.e., running from the shower, grabbing a towel, running to the bedroom to cue up). So I think for me, the issue on this is the listening mode more than the sound quality.
 
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