Why HORNS RULE

[ClaudeJ1]

After Owning economy style C Klipschorns in Birch in 1977 with a Matching LaScala Center and building a PWK "resistor box," I had, essentially, the same sound system as Paul Klipsch Himself for 30 years, until I heard MWM's and Theater Jubilees, then it was off to experimentation for the last 16 years.. As a young man I was invited to PWK's home after Woody Jackson (then VP of Marketing) gave me a plant tour (see my Avatar).

Needless to say, it was a wonderful experience, which included lunch with PWK, and dinner with our wives after sharing a few shot of Glenfiddich Scotch at his home while listening to his terrific recordings of symphonies on a Revox Reel to Reel and solid state electronics. The system, with false corners, in a very large living room with 2 Grand Pianos (Valerie Klipsch was a piano teacher in Hope), sounded even better than mine, for obvious reasons. The room, and ALL the live music was from 2 Omni Mikes and live acoustic instruments only. PWK was uncompromising, only listened to his own recordings, and hated anything done in a studio on LP or CD. He was a Tape Man all the way. Amazing experciane, which is a word I seldom use, unlike most people on Facebook.

I happened to attend the Axpona Show in Chicago, 2015 and heard the sound system that was voted Best of Show, so everyone with authority there agreed with my own assessment. The Sadurni Staccato Horn system (with twin subwoofer modules) was THE winner. I spoke to Jorge Sadurni about how wonderful his design was and talked technical, he was all smiles!

To describe the experience EMOTIONALLY, rather than technically, I sat in the sweet spot, and when Merrill cued up "Come Away with Me" by Norah Jones on the music server, I literally got Tears in My Eyes from the experience. No other loudspeaker had ever done that to me before, although the PWK experience came close at a different time and place, but this was the pinnacle of 2015 for me.

I can't expound on the experience any better than the following review and you can find it here:

Sadurni Acoustics Staccato speakers Review, Part II: The Sound

Read Sadurni Acoustics Staccato speakers Review, Part I: Setup The Sound Remember back to the time you heard your first high-end audio system? If you are like most of us, it was a magical experience. Suddenly, the musicians were there in the room with you, and you forgot you were listening to a...

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[rebos123]

For $40K/pair I would hope that they rule! I hope your Jubilee project provides a new pinnacle for you.

 

[ClaudeJ1]

For $40K/pair I would hope that they rule! I hope your Jubilee project provides a new pinnacle for you.

You can drive them with a 6 watt, $25, 2020T amp. Unlike my friend who has $20,000 monoblocs to drive his non horn speakers that are 20 db less sensitive. I can do the same with 7.5 Watts vs. his 2 Horsepower amps, and with less distortion.

 

[Gigantic]

 

[ClaudeJ1]

For $40K/pair I would hope that they rule! I hope your Jubilee project provides a new pinnacle for you.

The Jubilee is nothing more than a 4 ft long horn with 3 folds. Since there is Zero Vertical expansion in that horn, it's more like a LaScala with it's 2 folds aon only 2.7 feet length. Trey Cannon told me that the Jubilee, when measured in half space (like dig a hole in the ground, lay it on it's back and measure), it has a 60-70 Hz. rolloff vs. 100-104 for a LaScala, measured the same way. This original Jubilee bass bin has an inherent dip at at 220 Hz. much like the LaScala has an inherent peak at 140 Hz. which is part of their signature sound to a greater or lesser degree, depending or ROOM acoustics which is a far more important VARIABLE to control.

However, when placed in a CORNER, it behaves much better than a Klipschorn, which impressed Paul Klipsch in a big way because it sounded better and he was able to cross it at 800 Hz. to a small horn on top.

PWK wanted it to be made and sold Above the Khorn in the Heritage line, but he had already sold the company to Fred Klipsch, who built it up to $175 Million, from 20+ Million when Paul sold it and remained as an impresario.

Have a 3 Foot long, STRAIGHT axis Hypex horn (the Edgarhorn Titan II) with expansion in both planes (zero folds) for comparison shows it to have a much smoother response down to 90 Hz in my room (crossed at 80 to the horn sub).

 

[cecaa850]

So below 60-70 Hz (room notwithstanding) the bass it puts out is produced solely by a ported subwoofer.

 

[ClaudeJ1]

So below 60-70 Hz (room notwithstanding) the bass it puts out is produced solely by a ported subwoofer.

No, the room corner extends another octave down to 35 Hz ACOUSTICALLY on the Original Jubilee, just like a Khorn (or a shorter horn LaScala extends to 52 in a Corner) but more output from twin 12" motors vs. a single 15 for the Khorn (the Sd of Twin 12's is like an 18" driver with 2 motors).

Mine will have 3 12" drivers and PEQ at 30 Hz. for music only and no sub. Although I will have a sub that gets to 13 Hz. in between when if I want it. Also I will likely choose a B&C 1.4" Concentric Ring Compression Driver from 350-20,000 Hz. in stead of the Big Celestion Driver since I already have it.

The NEW Jubilee works the same way but adds a Cornwall sized bass reflex box with ports tuned in the 20's Plus adds PEQ's on the active 2 way network to flatten it down to 18 hz. It's a great combination of Acoustic and Electronic technologies, which works well enough to NOT have the New Jubilees in Corners if you prefer. A very good HYBRID solution that uses all available technologies for about $40,000 when you add the Amplifiers and Sales Taxes.

 

[cecaa850]

That's why I qualified my statement with "room notwithstanding". The new Jubilee is basically a ported sub below the Fs of the horn.

 

[THD+N]

That's why I qualified my statement with "room notwithstanding". The new Jubilee is basically a ported sub below the Fs of the horn.

This was my assertion too, but Claude pointed out that the ports fire into the horn throat (versus out the back like the ported LaScala) and this demarcates the two designs. Just a different way to skin a cat... you still get good usable bass with EQ/PEQ either way.

 

[Gigantic]

This was my assertion too, but Claude pointed out that the ports fire into the horn throat (versus out the back like the ported LaScala) and this demarcates the two designs. Just a different way to skin a cat... you still get good usable bass with EQ/PEQ either way.

this is probably a bad idea, but would it work if one made ports firing the bass horn of a lascala? like if you had the top horn area sealed and connected to the dog house for bass expansion, but instead of ports firing out the front or back, it fired downward into the bass horn area?

 

[ClaudeJ1]

That's why I qualified my statement with "room notwithstanding". The new Jubilee is basically a ported sub below the Fs of the horn.

Assuming that horn portion is the same LENGTH as the smaller, original, yes. However unverified by publication or measurements. Besides, my comment was not aimed at yours, so specifically but more for the others who might not be as well informed as you. Aye?

 

[THD+N]

this is probably a bad idea, but would it work if one made ports firing the bass horn of a lascala? like if you had the top horn area sealed and connected to the dog house for bass expansion, but instead of ports firing out the front or back, it fired downward into the bass horn area?

Technically, it should work (like the Jubilee), but there is not a lot of space to add 2 ports of significant length to the dog house to fire into the horn throat.

 

[ClaudeJ1]

Technically, it should work (like the Jubilee), but there is not a lot of space to add 2 ports of significant length to the dog house to fire into the horn throat.

I was hired, in June of 2012, years ago by a Klipsch dealer (RIP) in North Carolina, who owned the Golden Jubilees and a bunch of Klipsch Pro and Heritage for demo. After he passed, all his stuff went to auction and it is beyond the scope of this response. I did peek inside the Goldens to see that the back chamber was totally stuffed with Foam, a first for Klipsch AFAIK. Those Golden Jube which were auctioned with 2 sets of top horns at a bargain price since the drive was too much for most people. They likely sold for about $8,000 and the original asking price a year ago was $120,000, now down to half that much.

Pardon Our Interruption...

The other pair of Golden Jubilee bass bins are in one of the Klipsch Museums.

In 2012 built a "special" raw version of the Jubilee with room for 3 12" drivers, one of which was to be a passive (selected by me from 3 different brands, including Klipsch). None of them worked because the back chamber is too small. My conclusion to my employer at the time. The goal was to try and put a passive radiator in an even smaller air volume than what you show in the LaScala Dog House. If did NOT Work. So I told him he was wasting his time and money unless we could increase the air space in the back chamber. We all love being right once in a while.

In Roy's case, he had done a ported Theater Sub Horn successfully by having a large back chamber and applying it to the new Jubilee now being sold for big bucks. This has now proven out the conclusion I came to 11 years ago and is now successfully employed in the New Jubilees selling for $35 Kilobucks.

 

[Gigantic]

Technically, it should work (like the Jubilee), but there is not a lot of space to add 2 ports of significant length to the dog house to fire into the horn throat.

View attachment 2974037

In theory, one could put them in the upper right and left hand corners, firing downward into the bass horn mouth. In my case, there would be the 1“ thickness of the bass cabinet, a 3/4“ sealed space between cabinets, 3/4“ of the top horn cabinet and the interior is 16-1/2“ high, for a total of 19“ from the inside top of the bass cabinet, to the interior top of the top horn cab, ample room to fit a pair of 4“ x 11 ports. Granted, it would be a pain to pull off, but it is intriguing.

 

[ClaudeJ1]

In theory, one could put them in the upper right and left hand corners, firing downward into the bass horn mouth. In my case, there would be the 1“ thickness of the bass cabinet, a 3/4“ sealed space between cabinets, 3/4“ of the top horn cabinet and the interior is 16-1/2“ high, for a total of 19“ from the inside top of the bass cabinet, to the interior top of the top horn cab, ample room to fit a pair of 4“ x 11 ports. Granted, it would be a pain to pull off, but it is intriguing.

OK, so realistically you need a taller Doghouse and holes for the ports in the throat. It can be simulated but would add a level of complexity that I'm sure you are not prepared to deal with using your own lumber. Just sayin'

 

[ClaudeJ1]

I would just build a sub and get the little lady drunk to approve.

 

[THD+N]

I was hired, in June of 2012, years ago by a Klipsch dealer (RIP) in North Carolina, who owned the Golden Jubilees and a bunch of Klipsch Pro and Heritage for demo. After he passed, all his stuff went to auction and it is beyond the scope of this response. I did peek inside the Goldens to see that the back chamber was totally stuffed with Foam, a first for Klipsch AFAIK. Those Golden Jube which were auctioned with 2 sets of top horns at a bargain price since the drive was too much for most people. They likely sold for about $8,000 and the original asking price a year ago was $120,000, now down to half that much.

Pardon Our Interruption...

The other pair of Golden Jubilee bass bins are in one of the Klipsch Museums.

In 2012 built a "special" raw version of the Jubilee with room for 3 12" drivers, one of which was to be a passive (selected by me from 3 different brands, including Klipsch). None of them worked because the back chamber is too small. My conclusion to my employer at the time. The goal was to try and put a passive radiator in an even smaller air volume than what you show in the LaScala Dog House. If did NOT Work. So I told him he was wasting his time and money unless we could increase the air space in the back chamber. We all love being right once in a while.

In Roy's case, he had done a ported Theater Sub Horn successfully by having a large back chamber and applying it to the new Jubilee now being sold for big bucks. This has now proven out the conclusion I came to 11 years ago and is now successfully employed in the New Jubilees selling for $35 Kilobucks.

Woofers that work well in horn enclosures do not necessarily have the correct parameters for porting in some cases. It is a balancing act to get a ported horn to perform as intended, like most things related to sound... amp design, speakers, etc.

 

[ClaudeJ1]

Woofers that work well in horn enclosures do not necessarily have the correct parameters for porting in some cases. It is a balancing act to get a ported horn to perform as intended, like most things related to sound... amp design, speakers, etc.

Usually, TS parameters that are good for Horns also work for Bass Reflex, but I'm not sure about both at once without PEQ. Either harmonious or conflicting requirements at play. I keep mine separate for better control of both with equally valid reasons.

 

[Gigantic]

OK, so realistically you need a taller Doghouse and holes for the ports in the throat. It can be simulated but would add a level of complexity that I'm sure you are not prepared to deal with using your own lumber. Just sayin'

The top enclosure is connected to the doghouse, effectively adding a little over 4.75 cubic feet to the volume of the doghouse. More curious as an intellectual exercise than anything. I’ve already committed to another path.

 

[ClaudeJ1]

For $40K/pair I would hope that they rule! I hope your Jubilee project provides a new pinnacle for you.

The Edgarhorn Titans are the closest sound I have found vs. the Stacatto Horns. Mine are time aligned also but not the aesthetics or the big price tag. The midass is Hypex (although I have a big Tractrix Midbass with new twin 12's in the works), and also straight axis (folds are only best in Subs). My "Super Jubes" should end up as a better compromise overall, without a sub. Just a TAD better than the beautiful Tigerwood U-Jubec lones I owned for a year. I still have the K-402's which are yet to be beat. Plus I already have drivers that will be crossed lower in the K-402, unless I use my other big horns instead (which cross lower yet). Both will have time delays to match the Super Jube bass horn portion. When Roy tested the 500 Hz. output of the Commercial Jubilee (U-Jube) vs. 500 Hz. from a compression driver, the driver Won. I'm aiming for 350, which is what he's using in the new Jubilee, except I'll have an extra 12 in the sealed back chamber instead of making that as big as a Cornwall for the air mass with tubes to feed the horn. And mine will sound close without the $40,000 price tag when you add tax and amplifiers! I'm too poor for that, but I'll be 95% there.