Since a Corner is a specific part of a room, which I referred to, your "room notwithstanding comment" implies outdoor use. The room is ALWAYS part of the bass, in or out of a corner.
Why HORNS RULE
- Thread starter ClaudeJ1
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Speaking of magazines... back in the day before the World Wide Web (pre 1995) when all we had were "the" magazines, I was always curious as to the equipment in the reviews.
For example, If a speaker was being reviewed, they also gave you a list of associated equipment such as speaker wire, CD player/transport/DAC, turntable/cartridge, etc. Most of the names I had never heard of and humorously thought at one point that the magazine reviewers were making these product names up. I knew they weren't made up.
In addition, nothing was ever consistent, such as speaker wire, which was constantly changed no matter what speaker was being reviewed, so you could not get a consistent review because the wire was always changing and in some cases wire may make a difference (playing Devil's Advocate here...).
It's like the review had a secondary purpose to throw as many high-end audio accessories out there for free advertising. I liked to read the magazines for entertainment, but anybody who actually read them to weigh a purchasing decision was not too smart in my opinion.
I don't think J. Gordon Holt ever said anything disparaging about any piece of equipment. Now I realize that the last thing a magazine would want to do is to pi$$ off the manufacturer of said reviewed equipment, but if the equipment does not measure up, say so.
Anyways, we seem to have more realistic reviews today which I am definitely thankful for, plus with online sales, you have a somewhat liberal return policy.
For example, If a speaker was being reviewed, they also gave you a list of associated equipment such as speaker wire, CD player/transport/DAC, turntable/cartridge, etc. Most of the names I had never heard of and humorously thought at one point that the magazine reviewers were making these product names up. I knew they weren't made up.
In addition, nothing was ever consistent, such as speaker wire, which was constantly changed no matter what speaker was being reviewed, so you could not get a consistent review because the wire was always changing and in some cases wire may make a difference (playing Devil's Advocate here...).
It's like the review had a secondary purpose to throw as many high-end audio accessories out there for free advertising. I liked to read the magazines for entertainment, but anybody who actually read them to weigh a purchasing decision was not too smart in my opinion.
I don't think J. Gordon Holt ever said anything disparaging about any piece of equipment. Now I realize that the last thing a magazine would want to do is to pi$$ off the manufacturer of said reviewed equipment, but if the equipment does not measure up, say so.
Anyways, we seem to have more realistic reviews today which I am definitely thankful for, plus with online sales, you have a somewhat liberal return policy.
For a little while, the "paid for by ads" Golder Ear types had a point. Conflict of interests in the words and truth has become a contradiction.
Tubes sounded better than transistors and their non-linear behaviors in the 50's. After Dr. Matti Otala discovered how to fix Transient Intermodulation Distortion in amplifiers (published in the 70's), Everything Solid State in the 80's and beyond surpassed the Valves in sales, marketability, and Performance. It's better and cheaper than ever today.
Nope, wrong again.
At 83 db "standard levels" they have super low Intermodulation distortion. In other words, no pesky Sidebands that did Not exist in the original music recording!!
Also, impeccable layers of micro detail of "inner voices" that can only otherwise be heard only in Headphones, but without the FEEL portion an impact of the bass notes.
If you can't handle the Truth, then go listen to direct radiators with higher distortions and lower dynamic range. Easy.
Efficiency is the big advantage of horns. Distortion can be lower due to lower diaphragm excursion, but then reflections in the horn can mess things up. They are hard to get right. I'd like to hear those Avanteguard (sp?) Uno speakers, though, just to hear for myself. I heard the Klipschorns, and they had a sort of a shouty quality that I found fatiguing, although the midrange clarity was excellent. Bass was punchy but did not go low, and the speakers were placed in corners in a large room, as their design requires.
As far as 'T'ruth goes, this is just opinion. No claim of absolute truth was claimed or implied.
As an EE for 40+ years, I can and do handle the truth. If I didn't, I'd have been shown the door a long time ago.
As far as 'T'ruth goes, this is just opinion. No claim of absolute truth was claimed or implied.
As an EE for 40+ years, I can and do handle the truth. If I didn't, I'd have been shown the door a long time ago.
I also have a 4 decade EE background not spoiled by college professors, but real world Production of high volume products.
If you are a EE, then you know that Totality of Specifications have no substitute vs. opinions from Magzines Witers whose paycheck comes from Gear Ads whose products they review.
Fishermen who only fish in barrels never brag about their catch of the day either.
All opinions are as fine as personal preferences, once you get to a high level of sonic fidelity, however you choose to personally define it for yourself. Writing globally for others does not mask those biases
My own personal bias will always exist and I've have always followed the Real Science of Measurements and Sumlations when it comes to my Audio Nirvana Journey for Music or Movies.
The rest is all reportage with it's inherent biases and opinions galore.
And nowadays easier than ever with modern drivers and software tools. Meaning, not impossible. Look at Tom Danley's designs the the best from Roy Delgado of Klipsch. Even Harman (jbl) products of today are using SOTA technology.
My education got spoiled by some professors and cleaned up by good professors and the lengthy experience period. Measurements are important to me, but after they get good enough such that an improvement is inaudible to me then I may pick a piece of equipment based on functionality and maybe appearance. I won't needlessly chase higher and higher SINAD after a certain level of performance is reached. It's time to just enjoy the music. And of course we know what opinions are like. Hint: everyone's got one.
rebos123
YAY Horns!!
Belly buttons? LOL. I agree that chasing lower and lower SINAD in equipment after awhile becomes an excercise in milking mice.
Chasing lower IM distortion speakers? Not so much!
Unlike buttons, the belly kind, or shirt/blouse kind; Facts and curves are extremely rare in the Oceean of Opinions in Audio.
From EE's or not. Let's all be thankful for the joy of our ears and brain! Even though our eyes are less important on this Audio topic.
One of my "peeves" regarding speakers or amps is some type of measurement data. I realize that not everyone may be technical in nature or savvy enough to take/make measurements or even have the inclination, but when DIYer's post opinions about their DIY efforts and all the audio adjectives to go with it and no proof with measured data it drives me crazy.
Take a lot of the amp threads, DIYer's will post a completed amp w/ schematic (tube or solid state), listen to it and say it sounds better than a "insert major audiophile brand name here". The amp design may look like "it sounds good", but without even basic data the post is useless except for entertainment.
A lot of times, people reading the threads would like data to make a good building decision if they are interested in said project.
Pancreases!
Horns tell the truth, plain and simple.....
Had mine sounding like the Jazz band is playing in the next room just a few hours ago, downstairs while working on Super Heresy mods.
Can't say that concerning direct radiators which cannot even bear to reach hose kinds of levels without "screaming distortion."
Often, not always; I've heard (and owned) some pretty bad horns. But good horns and horn-DR hybrids are hard to beat. That said I think that if in an apartment where horn dynamics aren't needed electrostats match horns for clarity and ability to peel the onion. Now I'm using Altec 604Es in an apartment, though I can't let them kick their Big Tone and clarity are persuasive. I was seriously considering buying Martin Logan stats when I came across the 604s.
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rebos123
YAY Horns!!
Those 604Es look awesome! I downloaded the spec sheet for them and they certainly have some impressive specs. 20 to 20khz response, 101 db sensitivity at 1 watt.
What type of enclosure do you have them in? Are you using the stock 1500 HZ Crossover?
I responded privately lest I divert this forum with an Altec rabbit hole--604 talk can go on at great length.
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The Urei version was a better horn center. The crossover to a 15" driver above 900 Hz. will require a narrow dispersion. Plus the efficiency-bandwidth product is too low for the upper midrange (1,500 Hz. is too high from any 15") to shine like it does in an EVM15L or KappaPro 15a. Just sayin'. The ones I heard with McIntosh valves (when I was 18), 50 years ago, sounded good, just not up to modern standards now.
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