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Why I Rarely Re-Cap My Vintage Receivers

hauf888

hauf888

Receiver Rebuilder Gal
Some of you may know that I have a weakness for vintage stereo receivers, particularly Technics, Sony, Pioneer and Kenwood....In all I have over sixty units now, most in various states of disrepair...Perhaps fifteen are running now and I cycle them through and "blow the carburetor" out on all of them once in awhile to keep em thumpin. What I rarely do, however is recap. And I should add the average age of my typical receiver is approaching 40 years of age.

I don't recap for several reasons...First, I am a firm believer in the synergy of having all components mature together. I remember about five years ago I came into a beautiful Sony STR-6036A, an amazing unit whose output far exceeded the sticker 15 watts. Anyway, I had joined another forum and the consensus seemed to be that anything and everything should be recapped willy nilly if over thirty years old...wow! How exciting! I was gonna have a chance to have at all my gear and recap til the cows came home. I started with the Sony....my beautiful classic Sony. I gathered the caps and one fine day I popped on my apron, wielded the desoldering iron and, in three hours, changed out every electrolytic on the boards...

Sadly, when I brought the unit up slowly on the variac I was shocked at how the tone had changed! About 20% of the midrange just disappeared! I could have cried...hell, I think I did cry! And you know the saddest part is that there was nothing wrong with the caps I changed out...not a one of them...Sony used great stuff and those were the days when caps were quality, quality, quality.

You know my bottom line is that electronic gear acquires an audio patina just like fine furniture, beautiful coins, and antiques in general....Finagling with replacing components just because they may have some age is just senseless...look at them first...really look at them...I can guarantee you that 95% + of them will look great, if not all...

My Sony never sounded the same again but I never had another recap festival again..and all my equipment has held up beautifully! Just because you have a nice piece of vintage gear does not mean it should be recapped....the old saying that to a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail, is very appropriate here...to an audiophile with the recapping urge, everything looks like a chance to use the desoldering and soldering iron...I encourage you to resist the urge...once the patina of sound is gone, it can not be brought back...
In closing I should mention that I have done plenty of repair jobs for people who recapped units only to have trimmed leads carelessly fall down into the unit and short out components on the board...be careful, use a variac, and check after every changeout...you won't have the woe is me..what did I do wrong regrets...

Just my two cents....love to hear yours and Happy New Year!

Rosie :music:
 
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Fair enough. You like what you like. It says something to me that the only vintage unit that I run anymore is the one that's been totally recapped. I don't want a sound that's aged like old furniture. I want stuff to sound like intended, and beyond that, I want my amp to be reliable, and not destroy itself.
 
I think what you said is why the shop I'm getting my 'sui restored at doesn't replace all of the caps - they only do the power amp section. He mentioned it was a combination of not needing to as well as the fact that it can change the sound.

Honestly though I think it's more of going through the solder joints, completely cleaning switches, running tests through it, adjusting bias and whatnot that brings an amplifier back to the way it should sound than the capacitors. If a cap is operating in spec there shouldn't be much reason to change it other than reliability - personally though I'll take reliability over sound any day.
 
i agree, fix/ replace what is needed. most caps will work or not work. there is no middle ground. all of my units are vintage, i run them as if they are new and i have always done that. i have a pair of hafler 500's that have been pushed, a denon poa 1500 that is always fired up and a Marantz 26 that is 40 years old and works as it should.
 
I like vinyl's wait of putting it..it's kind of binary...either it works or it doesn't..I expected this thread to be somewhat controversial and I have digested what the old hands like conrad, and others, have posted and I have tried to synthesize these with my own experiences...If people burn in new caps to mellow them, then perhaps forty year old caps are like a well aged brandy, or a nice bottle of Pappy Van Winkle twenty five year old bourbon..they mellow with age...anyway, this is what I believe but I never want to NOT change out what doesn't need to be changed....I apreciate all your thoughts...

I forgot to mention the number of poor souls who solder bridge and destroy adjacent components tryin to shoehorn in new caps in tight spaces...and how about recapping tuner boards and having drift? It's all part and parcel of being careful...In my mind, a true audiophile is reasoned and patient and one who values the journey toward full restoration as much as the end product. I love to kick back and enjoy listening to vintage....

You guys rock

Rosie:music:
 
I've seen bad caps from vintage gear.
I've heard bad caps in vintage gear.
I've changed caps just to tune up old gear...and I was working in there anyway.

I've heard improvment only when the caps were actually bad.

I do think that old caps may have a sound of their own. Either due to their age and/or condition or their manufacture method of the time.

I think its an OK thing to do (re-cap) but I don't get all hung up about it.
I've found much better results in replacing crappy transistors...but I do the caps as well as long as I'm at it.
 
20 years and those replacement caps will sound just as good as your old caps - the difference is that they will only be 20 years old instead of 50+ years old. Given that most vintage fans are in for the long haul, I dont see the problem. :D
 
Aeon said:
Seriously?

My dad collects antique radios. He has Crosleys, Firestones, Admirals, Coronas and Atwaters and none have been re-capped! They all work.

He has an 8 tube Crosley that he uses every evening. Some of its tubes are still oringinal.

Maybe they truly don't make things like they used? :scratch2:
Click to expand...

I think your dad just got really lucky. I have a '46 or '47 AM/FM Zenith in the garage with horrible power supply problems. It's a provable fact that the materials science of electrolytic capacitors has advanced greatly in the past 30 years. Ceramic caps? Last forever. Film caps? Most of them last forever. PIOs? Depends on the manufacturer. The Japanese examples from the 60s are time bombs. Sprague Vitamin Qs and the big "can" style oil caps are pretty much indestructible unless something happens and they start leaking. Molded paper caps? Don't last all that well but the vintage guitar amp guys love them. The big paper caps that were used in really old radios seem to hold up fairly well, though it doesn't hurt to replace them.
 
the capacitors of the late 1960's through the 1980's are well built. Capacitors either fail and don't work or they work. All repair books state this, as well as the instructor i had years ago.
 
vinylisfinal said:
most caps will work or not work. there is no middle ground.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Capacitors can often drift in value and increase in ESR as they age, however they will continue to 'work' in the circuit. Accordingly, the equipment, whilst still functional, will not performing as designed. Assuming that a capacitor is working fine unless it has leaked, exploded or shorted out is incorrect.

I can completely understand why some people are shocked at the sound post-recap, but all you're hearing is the sound of the equipment as originally designed. We get used to the warmer, woolier sound, with somewhat subdued treble and the resulting forward midrange. When the full sonic capabilities of the equipment are restored following the recap, the sound is no doubt different.
However, I'm a firm believer that the new capacitors aren't departing from what the designer originally intended back in the day. Circuit topology plays the predominant role in the sound of gear, not the capacitors.

If people prefer the sound of unrestored amps, then it's a personal choice.

Each to their own anyway - different strokes for different folks :)
 
I don't think that sound is as it originally was by doing a recap..what about resistors? other components drift too...Just changing electrolytics, IMHO, rarely makes sense unless they are bad....just my opinion but I can count on one hand the number of Japanese caps that have gone bad on me..and I have some gear over fifty years old...still rockin...no reason for the caps to HAVE to give out...I think most people fool themselves on the sound they hear after recapping...it's like, what are they going to say? They f'ed up?....love your thoughts....some very wise folks here...and yes, I do love some modern gear!
 
As for topology, that may be true for a component taken in isolation. Put it into a receiver with still 90% original components and the symbiotic relationship of the originals will be lost...again, just what I have noticed..
 
I have not recapped any of my gear. I lack both the expertise to do it myself as well as the money to pay someone else. I think I probably would have at least some of the caps in my gear replaced if it was an option for me. Since it's not, I continue to be thankful that my gear is still working very well, even when I push it hard :)
 
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