soundbound
Well-Known Member
"Anyone know for sure why Bose is the brunt of so much bashing by audiophiles ?"
You answered you own question.
Why is Bose bashed so much ? and when did it start ?
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"Anyone know for sure why Bose is the brunt of so much bashing by audiophiles ?"
You answered you own question.
rnorton
Super Member
Because they make everything sound bigger than it is. A piccolo should not sound ten feet wide.
soundbound
Well-Known Member
My main problem with Bose is they use a small cheap driver in all their products, then charge way too much. Their profit margin is huge! They pay more for advertising than their products. Their products sound okay for what cheap products they are, but they're all way over priced!
I do give them a lot of credit for all the cheap products they sell for the high prices they get for them. They've gotten very rich selling cheap speakers that sound okay. They're not the only speaker company that sells cheap products that are over hyped, but they're the best at it! Go Bose. Why not. Good for them! Capitalism at its best! No one is forced to buy Bose, but plenty do!
Bose is the best at advertising their cheap products to enough to make them one of the most profitable company's in the world. My brother spend a lot on Bose and he's happy and isn't that what matters. Not everyone is an audiophile. Something that sounds decent is good enough for a lot of people and Bose gives that to them, even though way over priced.
Anyone can take the money they spend on Bose and instead buy themselves much better easily, but a lot believe Bose's many infomercials, commercials and advertisements telling them how great Bose is and for such a small cost too. Small cost, not...
Mostly all decent bookshelf speakers sound better than Bose.
I'll hopefully buy some used 901s if I can at a low cost someday and put in my garage to enjoy. I'm sure I'll enjoy them. I enjoy music and all audio components. When someone comes in my garage, hears my 901s, tells me how good they sound, I'll then take them to listen to some real speakers in my house. Bose, no highs, no lows...
I do give them a lot of credit for all the cheap products they sell for the high prices they get for them. They've gotten very rich selling cheap speakers that sound okay. They're not the only speaker company that sells cheap products that are over hyped, but they're the best at it! Go Bose. Why not. Good for them! Capitalism at its best! No one is forced to buy Bose, but plenty do!
Bose is the best at advertising their cheap products to enough to make them one of the most profitable company's in the world. My brother spend a lot on Bose and he's happy and isn't that what matters. Not everyone is an audiophile. Something that sounds decent is good enough for a lot of people and Bose gives that to them, even though way over priced.
Anyone can take the money they spend on Bose and instead buy themselves much better easily, but a lot believe Bose's many infomercials, commercials and advertisements telling them how great Bose is and for such a small cost too. Small cost, not...
Mostly all decent bookshelf speakers sound better than Bose.
I'll hopefully buy some used 901s if I can at a low cost someday and put in my garage to enjoy. I'm sure I'll enjoy them. I enjoy music and all audio components. When someone comes in my garage, hears my 901s, tells me how good they sound, I'll then take them to listen to some real speakers in my house. Bose, no highs, no lows...
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a_retent
In memory of Trixie woo-woo
Why is Bose bashed so much?
I think if you read through the infinite number of posts on this website about this company and it's products you should get a pretty good idea why some folks don't like their stuff. I try to maintain the position of "if it sounds good to you, great"...but they aren't for me. After being instructed on the high quality of their speaker products to then feel disillusioned seeing the true construction/parts quality upon taking a couple of their products appart. I have to say in my own experience price and product construction don't always equate. As for marketing approach I have to wonder what does Forbes magazine know about quality audio to be able to stamp their seal of approval on the wave radio stating how well it out performs stereo equipment many times it's size. At the end of it all some folks just like to bitch for what ever reason and some believe in the motto "what ever floats yer boat." To me Bose products are akin to entry level scotch; a great place to start and enjoy for awhile but should lead to better experiences.
and when did it start?
Perhaps sometime shortly after their products became available to the consumer market?!
I think if you read through the infinite number of posts on this website about this company and it's products you should get a pretty good idea why some folks don't like their stuff. I try to maintain the position of "if it sounds good to you, great"...but they aren't for me. After being instructed on the high quality of their speaker products to then feel disillusioned seeing the true construction/parts quality upon taking a couple of their products appart. I have to say in my own experience price and product construction don't always equate. As for marketing approach I have to wonder what does Forbes magazine know about quality audio to be able to stamp their seal of approval on the wave radio stating how well it out performs stereo equipment many times it's size. At the end of it all some folks just like to bitch for what ever reason and some believe in the motto "what ever floats yer boat." To me Bose products are akin to entry level scotch; a great place to start and enjoy for awhile but should lead to better experiences.
and when did it start?
Perhaps sometime shortly after their products became available to the consumer market?!
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The SGD
Active Member
bose is bashed because they make terrible speakers for the money!!! it is that simple. sure they 'work' but people generally will berate products that cost too much for what they deliver.
the laugh is that they say they spend money on research but still use cone tweeters that do not appear to have changed over 30years. i once took apart a set of bose speakers and the speaker wire was not even soldered, they simply tied a knot for the connections. i have no experience with their top of the range models, but afaik their claims for research come from the original Dr Bose who asserted that 89% of music should be reflected. everything since parrots the research line without applying it.
the laugh is that they say they spend money on research but still use cone tweeters that do not appear to have changed over 30years. i once took apart a set of bose speakers and the speaker wire was not even soldered, they simply tied a knot for the connections. i have no experience with their top of the range models, but afaik their claims for research come from the original Dr Bose who asserted that 89% of music should be reflected. everything since parrots the research line without applying it.
js1138
Super Member
I have both 901s and SMGa's.
I think the Boses have a rather unfocused soundstage, unless they are set up really well.
On the other hand, I can watch a move with the mags in stereo and locate everything in space. It's actually sharper in focus than 5.1.
Some Bose products use 1.4" compression drivers and cast frame woofers with 4" voice coils.
Do you hold audiophile approved products which are insanely priced to the same standards as Bose? Magico say?
I'm amused when Bose critics say they're lousy because they use cone tweeters and full and wide range drivers given the number of audiophile approved products that do the same thing.
dc270
Now Off the Reservation
Like them or not Bose is here to stay- least for a while longer. I do not presume to bash Bose as they had their day in the sun and at one time made some respectable listening products.
They excell at reading the audio mass market, like it or not a lot of people buy their cube /sub woofer systems and love them. Perhaps for those people it is not about the sound so much as it is to be shiek, upscale or minimalist in their audio approach. It produces a sound and more impotantly "a look" many favor. It is not fair to bash that but better to understand it.
Don't forget that audo is also a visuall appeal for some just a much or more than an audible experience.
I am sure Bose Corp did their due dilligence and study to find what really sells- then they persued it and siezed the day along with its audiance. Don't blame Bose for a sound worth lacking but instead look to the actual buyers and what needs were best served there.
How many audiophiles do you think are sprnkled around? I can assure you, certainly not all that many! So perhaps it is good that Bose made a product to sooth the savage masses and blend well into the room- otherwise Rudy Bozk Concert Grands might have been shrunk & put into peanut shells and they be called the norm.....just sayin'
DC
They excell at reading the audio mass market, like it or not a lot of people buy their cube /sub woofer systems and love them. Perhaps for those people it is not about the sound so much as it is to be shiek, upscale or minimalist in their audio approach. It produces a sound and more impotantly "a look" many favor. It is not fair to bash that but better to understand it.
Don't forget that audo is also a visuall appeal for some just a much or more than an audible experience.
I am sure Bose Corp did their due dilligence and study to find what really sells- then they persued it and siezed the day along with its audiance. Don't blame Bose for a sound worth lacking but instead look to the actual buyers and what needs were best served there.
How many audiophiles do you think are sprnkled around? I can assure you, certainly not all that many! So perhaps it is good that Bose made a product to sooth the savage masses and blend well into the room- otherwise Rudy Bozk Concert Grands might have been shrunk & put into peanut shells and they be called the norm.....just sayin'
DC
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Copa1934
My ears are bleeding
During the 70's Pioneer introduced a "big box" line of receivers, speakers and "changers". While they sounded good they were most certainly not in the same league as the SX line of receivers available in Audio stores.
Pioneer isn't the only company, of course, guilty of this. And all of these companies made similar claims as Bose. Their print ads and TV ads made, what many people would agree, were impossible claims.
That's marketing, pure and simple. A true sin, if you ask me, is the ludicrous price tags on Magico or many other "high" end speakers. Bose is by no means the worst, not by a long shot. Look at "white van" speakers. Those clearly are the worst in that you definitely don't get what you pay for and no warranty or support to speak of.
Bose bashing is just that. People present all kinds of justification when really their justification applies to many more companies than Bose. I can't honestly say I'm a fan of Bose, I've only owned a pair of 301 II, briefly, and would love to own a pair of 901's some day. So I have no vested interest in Bose.
Picking on Bose, in particular, and with such harshness is childish and immature. I have to agree with one of the comments about musicians. I've been to my share of musicians homes as well as people into classical and opera and of the many speakers out there Bose is one of the few that repeatedly shows up in their homes. In other words where I may see a 44xx series JBL I may see multiple 901's.
Are there claims exaggerated? If you want to take it all seriously and simply infer that they are claiming "audiophile" quality, then yes they are exaggerated. But recently I listened a little more closely to an radio ad and honestly the claims weren't all that exaggerated. If your an idiot and you assume or infer that what is claimed translates into audiophile, well than buyer beware. Geez, look at infomercials, talk about hype (which I guess Bose has/had some?).
I wish this whole Bose bashing would just end. There is clearly no logic to it whatsoever. Just a bunch of childish crap.
jukeboxfun
Active Member
This is Paul
Harvey........................................................................................................................................Good Day!
Harvey........................................................................................................................................Good Day!
Seems to me if 'Bose bashing' is childish, so is Bose defending.
People express their opinion about lots of equipment, and if a lot of people don't like Bose and speak up, how does that constitute bashing? Bose is a major company, probably the major seller and advertiser in the US, and they claim to be superior -- of course people are going to object to being told by Bose and by half the buying public that Bose is the best, not because they have actually compared Bose to really good equipment, but because they've been told by Bose. Obviously some people really like the direct/reflected sound thing and others don't, and some think the Bose high end is good, and others don't -- how is one opinion childish and the other not?
By the way, Tom, it seems to me that Maggies produce a ten foot tall piccolo, not Bose's ten foot wide one. Small difference, but exactly the same sort of imprecision that cost Consumer Reports mightily.
People express their opinion about lots of equipment, and if a lot of people don't like Bose and speak up, how does that constitute bashing? Bose is a major company, probably the major seller and advertiser in the US, and they claim to be superior -- of course people are going to object to being told by Bose and by half the buying public that Bose is the best, not because they have actually compared Bose to really good equipment, but because they've been told by Bose. Obviously some people really like the direct/reflected sound thing and others don't, and some think the Bose high end is good, and others don't -- how is one opinion childish and the other not?
By the way, Tom, it seems to me that Maggies produce a ten foot tall piccolo, not Bose's ten foot wide one. Small difference, but exactly the same sort of imprecision that cost Consumer Reports mightily.
I think Bose speakers are about as non-audiophile as you can get. Audiophiles live and breath recreation of the original experience. It's why so much attention is given to detail and imaging. All progress in the audio field has gone to improving the "reality" of the music. It's why SACD and DVD-Audio were developed. To provide more precise imaging and placement of musical elements within the soundstage.
Bose on the other hand wants to bounce their sound all over the room. They rely on first reflections (the bane of imaging's existence). If you look at their flagship, the 901, there's one driver facing the listener and eight drivers bouncing sound all over. First, second and third reflections are not what quality sound is all about.
If imaging is not bad enough, let's talk about frequency response. Any documented specs I've seen for Bose speakers were given with a tolerance of +-10db. That's a 20db spread. Conceivably you can have one audio frequency band at +10db and the next at -10db and still be in spec. Add this to the degradation of the signal after bouncing off a wall and any semblance of a flat frequency response goes out the window------and out the door, off the ceiling... Their Lifestyle sub/sat systems usually have a huge hole between the freq resp of the sat and the sub, sorry I meant bass module, since they don't go low enough to be called a subwoofer.
When I first got into audio I wanted a pair of 901. But when I started to read and listen to other respected speakers my eyes and ears were opened. Before purchasing my first serious audio system, I listened to mostly tapes with headphones. Groups like Grand Funk Railroad, Pink Floyd and others who used stereo for motion and enhancement of the music sounded great. Bose doesn't come close to providing the separation for stereo. Their "stereo everywhere" sounds more like "stereo-nowhere". They turn music into musac, very generic without substance.
I think what bothers me the most is they have the means to do better and won't. To me they're a generic product, over promoted, taking advantage of the general public who don't know any better. They appeal to the lemmings of the population who buy Bose because Bose advertises they are good and because their friends heard somewhere that they were good. They can't stand on their own engineering.
Bose on the other hand wants to bounce their sound all over the room. They rely on first reflections (the bane of imaging's existence). If you look at their flagship, the 901, there's one driver facing the listener and eight drivers bouncing sound all over. First, second and third reflections are not what quality sound is all about.
If imaging is not bad enough, let's talk about frequency response. Any documented specs I've seen for Bose speakers were given with a tolerance of +-10db. That's a 20db spread. Conceivably you can have one audio frequency band at +10db and the next at -10db and still be in spec. Add this to the degradation of the signal after bouncing off a wall and any semblance of a flat frequency response goes out the window------and out the door, off the ceiling... Their Lifestyle sub/sat systems usually have a huge hole between the freq resp of the sat and the sub, sorry I meant bass module, since they don't go low enough to be called a subwoofer.
When I first got into audio I wanted a pair of 901. But when I started to read and listen to other respected speakers my eyes and ears were opened. Before purchasing my first serious audio system, I listened to mostly tapes with headphones. Groups like Grand Funk Railroad, Pink Floyd and others who used stereo for motion and enhancement of the music sounded great. Bose doesn't come close to providing the separation for stereo. Their "stereo everywhere" sounds more like "stereo-nowhere". They turn music into musac, very generic without substance.
I think what bothers me the most is they have the means to do better and won't. To me they're a generic product, over promoted, taking advantage of the general public who don't know any better. They appeal to the lemmings of the population who buy Bose because Bose advertises they are good and because their friends heard somewhere that they were good. They can't stand on their own engineering.
What I find intersting is that Bose gets bashed by alot of folks who have never owned or heard their products. Bashing Bose is cool, so they jump on the bandwagon. I am not a basher, as I have some Bose products, that I enjoy. Not the Accostimass or whatever systems, didn't care for those, or the Wave Radio which IS too expensive. As to the 90% of the budget on marketing and 10% on research, I'd like to see actual facts on this, and not just someone making up their "Facts"
Bstable
Super Member
+1 Back in the day, I was one of "those" people that thought Bose had to be the best speaker around simply because Bose told me so. Well, it is up to the consumer to research their purchases.
I bought a pair of Bose 2.2 back in 1988 (or so) Theese were little 6.5" two ways with a cheap woofer and cone tweeter. I thought they were the bomb, but there were probably much better speakers available at the time especially since I paid a tad over $150 for the pair. :sigh: I used these in the back of my extended Mazda pickup. Someone (that must have known they were there) broke out my window and stole them as I was working.
I was in a thrift once looking at some speakers, and out of the blue a lady walked up and said "those look nice, but someday I'm gonna get me some Bose" I kinda laughed, but that only proves that their marketing has worked.
I don't hate or love Bose, but I think the discussions can be enlightening for many people. We all get tired of the "white van speaker" stories, but I guarantee there are still people out there that are unaware of that scam.
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stereofanboy
Addicted Member
I actually owned a Bose wave radio and Soundesign stereo system with built in clock and separate speakers. The speakers were about three feet tall with a single 6.5" full range driver. I thought the Soundesign sounded better and was better in every way except size.
I gave the Bose to my brother and sold the Soundesign speakers at a yard sale. I kept the Soundesign stereo, and it wakes me up every morning. Currently mated with some Polk speakers, it sounds way better than the Bose radio.
I don't doubt that there is at least one full sized stereo that doesn't sound as good as a Bose table radio, and that there is at least one more expensive stereo that doesn't sound as good as a Bose table radio. Their advertising makes it sound like this is the rule rather than the exception.
Their advertising also targets the elderly in a way that always struck me as kind of slimy.
I have actually listened to some of the acoustimass systems, when i was searching for a small system for use in a small barrack (container module buildt for living in at workplaces) but left unimpressed
I ended up with an used 2x90Wrms Technics amp and a pair of new Gale 3010s speakers who where just a tad larger than the Accoustimass cubes, way better sound, and build quality, for a 1/5 of Bose`s prices for the Accoustimass system
Bose are "not enough of the good stuff, for to much of the green stuff" in my opinion
I ended up with an used 2x90Wrms Technics amp and a pair of new Gale 3010s speakers who where just a tad larger than the Accoustimass cubes, way better sound, and build quality, for a 1/5 of Bose`s prices for the Accoustimass system
Bose are "not enough of the good stuff, for to much of the green stuff" in my opinion
soundbound
Well-Known Member
What's wrong with people stating how they feel about any speakers? Isn't that what forums are for? Discussions about subjects we want to discuss. If we like something, we state that and why and if we don't, we state that and why.
Bose isn't the only speakers that many don't like. For example, a lot don't like horns and many do and state why on many forums and so on and so on. I don't mind people not liking a product even when I do. We're all different and will state those differences and I respect them all.
Stating someone is immature or childish for stating they don't like Bose just reflects that you're the one who's actually the childish and immature one who can't handle others opinions. If you can't handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen. For me, Bose has no highs and no lows and if that bothers you too much, don't read these threads.
Bose isn't the only speakers that many don't like. For example, a lot don't like horns and many do and state why on many forums and so on and so on. I don't mind people not liking a product even when I do. We're all different and will state those differences and I respect them all.
Stating someone is immature or childish for stating they don't like Bose just reflects that you're the one who's actually the childish and immature one who can't handle others opinions. If you can't handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen. For me, Bose has no highs and no lows and if that bothers you too much, don't read these threads.
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