Why is Bose bashed so much ? and when did it start ?

[dosmalo]

For me it was the "Psycho-acoustic" thing. There is enough deception in audio as it without it.

 

[Tom Brennan]

It's one thing to recognize that certain Bose products don't reproduce sound in a way that pleases you, and to share that information when people with similar audio criteria are asking about products you're familiar with, but it's quite another thing to so often read in these threads that people who have purchased and enjoyed Bose products must necessarily be ignorant and easily duped.

Well said. And relates to my earlier point that some bash Bose in order to feel they're "in the club".

Myself, I don't pay much attention to Bose though I've heard them sounding pretty good at times. But they never made me want to run from the room with my hands over my ears as quite a few more socially accepted (around here) speakers have.

 

[foonsped]

For me, Bose became neutered in the late 70's , sort of like the Ford Mustang during the OPEC crises. Their flagship vintage gear were built to last generations and delivered on their hype. I own what I consider their best stuff : Bose 1801 amp, 4401 preamp, 901 series I & II, super-rare set of 2201 speakers, and even their Spatial receiver. I will defend the above equipment on both build quality and playback dynamics.
On the other hand, since the 1980s, Bose has become the face of "branding" in the audio world. From their 30 minute infomercials on late night TV onwards, the population has been swamped with how great and innovative the Bose brand exemplifies. AD nauseam basically to justify a $500 cd alarm/clock radio. People
see enough commercials without counterpoint, and they will start to believe the hype.
This creates a backlash with people who may know better about the audio world VS the general population fed on the steady diet of Bose commercials.
From their "Wave music systems" to their current "Videowave" TV systems, Bose has become all hype. More style than substance. They still produce and rely on their 901s for street cred, but most of their modern satellite/sub systems would never make it to the main listening rooms of discriminating audio enthusiasts. A sad thing really, I truly believe that Prof. Amar Bose was an innovative man, thinking outside the box in the 1960's to create speaker systems that reproduced music through a reflected sound field. Now his name represents the company which no longer pursues research in the classic sense, other than the pursuit of commerce. BTW to his credit, prof Bose donated all his wealth ( over 1 billion ) to MIT in 2011.

 

[js1138]

Sounding "good" as opposed to fantastic or extraordinary seems to be their goal.

One thing I've always liked about 901s is their ability to make mediocre recordings sound good.

I have a number of different speakers, each corresponding to someone's idea how how a speaker should sound.

 

[Turboracer]

Mr. Bose is a wonderful, wonderful man. I have a very good friend who was friends with him, couldn't say enough good about him.
The company itself, at least these days, I'm not a fan of. Their products, of the ones that I've heard, have all been very subpar. It's not that it doesn't sound like what I want, the cheapness of the speakers comes blaring through to me at every volume. I haven't heard any of the classic series bose, but I'll try them out sometime.
Where these speakers succeed is making a sound that's generally pretty pleasant to almost anyone. I think that that's a fantastic quality to have, because I do like to actually enjoy what I'm hearing.

 

[Hoho]

foonsped, what does the 2201 sound like? Bose considered that model a failure. I've never encountered anyone who had actually heard them.

 

[beans]

I have personal issues with a lot of companies, but I get over it. As a long time Bose customer, I have a different experience. And it's the customer's experience that makes or breaks a company in the long run.

I'd be curious to hear about anyone who got sued for publishing objective measurements made with good methodology. Consumer Reports got sued for deviating from their usual objective tests and reporting a negative opinion of the 901's soundstage.

I remember the incident from when it happened. CU was reporting something that can happen with 901s, but it's an exaggerated characterization of the very thing that 901s were designed to do. The problem is that CU is taken as the Word of God by many of its readers. Many of whom are in the very demographic targeted by Bose.

Over time it all comes out in the wash.

I hate beating a dead horse, but again if they are making money more power to 'em. My Bose experience is limited but most of the stuff I've heard sounds pretty good. It's when they run commercials over & over claiming the Wave "can easily replace any component system", my blood boils. Sure, I read one of these posts where it is written that the Wave sounds better than some speakers that are way bigger, and I believe him. But the commercial claim is tremendously deceptive.

 

[Naptown Rob]

I have personal issues with a lot of companies, but I get over it. As a long time Bose customer, I have a different experience. And it's the customer's experience that makes or breaks a company in the long run.

I'd be curious to hear about anyone who got sued for publishing objective measurements made with good methodology. Consumer Reports got sued for deviating from their usual objective tests and reporting a negative opinion of the 901's soundstage.

I remember the incident from when it happened. CU was reporting something that can happen with 901s, but it's an exaggerated characterization of the very thing that 901s were designed to do. The problem is that CU is taken as the Word of God by many of its readers. Many of whom are in the very demographic targeted by Bose.

Over time it all comes out in the wash.

Don't get me wrong - I actually don't "have personal issues with a lot of companies", and the experience of working at Bose building speakers was not a bad one (though certainly eye opening). I did not leave on bad terms. Though the experience was one of the things that spurred me to go back to school, but that's another story.

"I'd be curious to hear about anyone who got sued for publishing objective measurements made with good methodology."
Bose has done this more than once. There is a reason (actually dozens & dozens of reasons) that they have a reputation of being litigious. I doubt that this is the first time you've heard that about them. Their best defense is a good offense.
In the case I was referring to it was a guy who (like Amar) has a doctorate from MIT. The paper was on the behavior of some of their drivers. It was rock solid, but - do you have any idea how many lawyers Bose has? In the end he agreed to simply not talk about Bose products. At all. Ever. Praise The Lord & pass The Constitution!

I don't think his legal bills "came out in the wash".

 

[js1138]

I'm curious where the "cheapness" comes from. that's the kind of thing that could get a professional reviewer sued.

Cheapness usually implies small magnets, such as used in whit van speakers. My experience is that Bose uses some of the heaviest magnets per cone size.

That's certainly true of the 901s and of the home theater speakers.

The problem with their home theater speakers is size. In order to make them tiny, they sacrificed the upper bass.

A case where marketing to women has caused a problem with quality.

 

[RastaFish]

I don't know but they'd have sounded better with solid plywood grilles. 3/4" thick. Baltic birch.

Easily one of the funniest comments I have read in a long time.


Starbucks has obviously learned a lot from Bose's marketing schemes. Take a product of dubious quality, market the hell out of it as if it were actually very high-end, and price it high enough that people believe the product must be good since it costs so much.

 

[Naptown Rob]

I'm curious where the "cheapness" comes from. that's the kind of thing that could get a professional reviewer sued.

Cheapness usually implies small magnets, such as used in whit van speakers. My experience is that Bose uses some of the heaviest magnets per cone size.

That's certainly true of the 901s and of the home theater speakers.

The 901's are very different animals from the rest of the line. I don't know if they still make any of their own drivers, but when I was there, the 901 & 801 drivers were the only ones we made in house. The build quality of those units was leagues beyond the imported components used in all other models. When I first saw the woofers & tweeters they were using I was shocked by their...umm...."cheapness".

 

[js1138]

But the commercial claim is tremendously deceptive.

I hate nearly all commercials, including the Bose commercials.

I don't know about the "paper" that caused legal trouble. Was it peer reviewed?

I've read the rants against the Bose legal team. I suppose they're true, at least from the point of view of the losers. I hate lawyers more than I hate commercials.

Sounds like two academics having a brawl. But that conflicts with the image of Amar portrayed by people who know him. So I'm left a bit confused.

Is he really so out of touch with the company that he allows lawyers to run amok?

 

[kfalls]

I consider them to be - how shall I even put this?

Scumbags. Amoral opportunists who use deceptive practices in the marketing of shoddy merchandise. Now that I think about it, they are kind of like a "legitimate" version of the White Van guys. :scratch2:
Quality of the product is about the same.

By the way - loved the Kincaid comparison!

Don't candy-coat it, tell us how you really feel

 

[secretguy]

Why? Because they're awful.
When? When the first person with ears heard them.

 

[Naptown Rob]

that conflicts with the image of Amar portrayed by people who know him. So I'm left a bit confused.

Is he really so out of touch with the company that he allows lawyers to run amok?

I don't know the man, so I can't comment on him.

But it is certainly possible for one to be both personally charming & professionally ruthless.

 

[js1138]

Aside from the corporate money involved, academics are known for stabbing each other in the back, side and front.

MIT has harbored another academic notorious for damaging the careers of opponents. In the field of linguistics. Usually this doesn't involve lawyers.

 

[Copa1934]

Where on earth are people getting BEST from??????

I say childish because so far I haven't seen any evidence/proof that Bose specifically markets their products as the best or audiophile grade. Seems there are a bunch of children who have their nickers in a bind over something that isn't even true to begin with. The last radio ad I listened to just this morning said "....sounds like systems costing 5 times as much...." You have to be a complete flipping moron to assume that's the same thing as saying "the best" or "audiophile". If you take exception with that, you have a problem. It's marketing, get over it!

Yeah, I think there are a bunch of children posting messages because they can't stand the fact that someone who owns Bose thinks they're the best, that they're great, that they're as good as audiophile. As far as I'm concerned if a "consumer" claims that, more power to them. My hearing isn't the same as everyone else, but geez to take such offense over these things is simply juvenile.

And I don't even own any Bose products, so I have no reason to "defend" Bose.

I'm done. I've had enough. Some kids just don't know how to play in the same sandbox as everyone else, they just have to control everything I guess.

 

[Hoho]

Then I'm a moron

The last radio ad I listened to just this morning said "....sounds like systems costing 5 times as much...." You have to be a complete flipping moron to assume that's the same thing as saying "the best" or "audiophile".

I love 901's. I was favorably impressed with early 301's, which sound like 901's at a lower price. So I'm not a Bose basher. But this quote from a radio ad certainly does imply a high-end sound. They also have used the phrase, "Hear what you're missing," which is misleading.

 

[icenine]

Is there a speaker add anywhere that does not imply a high end (or better or great) sound?

 

[js1138]

LOL. I'm something of a Bose fanboy, but their prices are terrible.

I bought my original 901s for $400, when they first came out. I was in Vietnam, but I think I ordered them within a month of the first magazine reviews.

I think that was a reasonable price. I think the current price is reasonable, considering inflation.

But the other stuff is outrageous, unless you get a great garage sale score.

I would say their wave radios sound like bigger stuff that costs five time less.

I saw a Wave Radio for $75. that would have been a decent price.