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Why is this hobby enjoyed mostly by the male population?

Many wives are very oriented towards appearance and don't tend to like racks of bulky gear. My wife is an exception to that rule. She favors her large JBL, Altec, EV, and Tannoy cornerhorns, her collection of McIntosh, Leak, and Marantz classics, and her Ampex, 3M, and Studer collections and her Thorens turntables. The closest she gets to designer hi-fi is some B&O and Tandberg equipment. She also loves vintage TV, test equipment, and Ham equipment. She also slings a mean soldering iron. And she's a Ph.D! in Electrical Engineering at that. She also loves vintage musical instruments and does lots of recording. I tend to keep anyone like that close in my circle. I married that gal wisely! Best move I ever made at that!
 
Last night my GF turned on the classic rock station in the bedroom. The stereo is an "all in one" breadbox POS. We are in the living room 35 feet away. I asked if we could turn on the living room system I set up for her. (JBL M5 speakers/ MCS 3226 receiver)

She said "whats wrong, can't you hear it" (the sound from the bedroom down the hall)

This answers the original posted question...that and there are just TOO MANY buttons to remember what they do. Good thing it is only a receiver with knobs, and not a full setup.

Oh yeah and the 2 speakers for her system are stacked ON the "all in one"
 
Balifly said:
Fishing rods, reels, rifles, cars, motorcycles, stereo components are just tools.
Most women are not interested in tools!
That includes men that are called by that term.:D
Click to expand...

Damn.. you beat me to what I was going to say... but I'll say it anyway...

Women just need something to do what they need... listen to music, a clock radio plays it... wash clothes, a washing machine and dryer...

But then you turn those choices over to a guy, and he becomes Tim Taylor.. The bigger the better!... Need to listen to music? GOT IT!!! Huge ass speakers, lots of big powerful amps, and of course need to see lots of glowing lights... oh oh oh....

Need a washing machine and dryer? Well of course a guy is gonna go after the Washmaster 3000 and the Turbo Fluff 4000...

As proof, I submit "THE MAN'S KITCHEN" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuJD1-1e-i4

OH.. and can't forget the "MAN'S BEDROOM" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW9I-kpZJ8E&feature=related
 
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I've been keenly interested in this and the other thread on this topic... Because I am curious to know what my daughter will grow up to be like... and I wonder how much of these statements about women (by men) are nature versus nurture, that old debate. I know there's no ready answer but it's interesting to consider.

All these statements seem so *true* but in my gut I want them to be wrong wrong wrong!

Because I don't want my daughter to be artificially limited. Not by what other people tell her she can or can't do. Not by what she's expected to like or not like. Not by even her own lack of confidence. To that end I hope I can give her opportunities to explore a bunch of different things and decide for herself what she is interested in. How sad to be boxed in and miss out on parts of life ... without even knowing it.

I don't like limitations for myself. For example: why are more women into knitting? It's not for lack of ability on men's part. I've heard more than a few comments from female knitters that they know men who are really good at it. I think it's the stigma associated with crossing these arbitrary gender boundaries. Well, those boundaries are b.s. I thought it might be fun so now I'm into it. And... it *is* fun. And relaxing. And now I have two cool home made scarves. :D Lookit what I would've missed out on!

Are women really universally afraid of gadgets and knobs and buttons? They don't like tech? That can't be inherently true! Can it?

It used to be that very few women were into math. People thought girls couldn't do it. And there's studies that suggest some teachers unwittingly encourage boys more than girls in math. Well, girls are good at math and I've known a few. For that matter, women didn't used to be in a lot of fields. Women weren't *allowed* into a lot of fields a hundred years ago. Now they are, but I really believe cultural stereotypes are still at play, interfering, and self-perpetuating.

Girls didn't used to be programmers or computer geeks, but I can list a handful of women who are among the most brilliant IT people I've known or worked with in 15 years. Friend of mine from college went on to write some O'Reilley books and is a lead developer for a Major .com (like, one of the top 5). This person was also into Ham radio thanks to her dad.

I know a woman who has no qualms about crawling under her Wagoneers (yes, plural) to change out a transfer case or whatever else.

But none of these examples quite alleviated my fears ... these all seem like exceptions to the rule... through some happenstance a few women turn out to be techies... but the rule is that women won't/can't do tech stuff. That just can't be.

Then it hit me. My FIRST Robotics Challenge team, high school and some middle school kids, were comprised 50-50 of girls and boys. And the girls were every bit as competent as the boys in building, programming, designing, etc.

What I realized was that if they lacked anything it was opportunity, encouragement, and an environment where they could explore and find their abilities. I noticed boys had a tendency to want to step in and bump the girls out of the way or even tell them they didn't know what they were doing!

It kind of reminded me of the vibe I got from middle school and high school PE. :D I *could've* been better at sports if any of the PE "teachers" would've considered really teaching me--or if I'd been exposed to any of that as a kid. So, instead, I sucked at it... but it wasn't that I lacked ability, just experience and confidence. Naturally I wasn't too interested in something that was so frustrating where no one would help me.

But those things I was exposed to that I did have ability for, I enjoyed and did reasonably well at. Like, volleyball, swimming, tennis. Or computers. And I think that's at the heart of the explanation for why there's few women into technical gizmos, or why there are so few men who knit. But I also think it's getting better.

Almost *every* FIRST Robotics team happens to be about 50-50 girls/boys. That suggests to me that girls are feeling like it is more ok to be into geek stuff. Even if they want to go on to be interior designers (as one student did). More girls are into playing video games and riding skateboards or doing extreme sports, or just doing regular sports.

I just don't believe that women can't do tech, can't be interested in tech, aren't able to handle a lot of dials and switches, couldn't be interested in turning wrenches or taking stuff apart, couldn't be interested in building things.

I think culture is slowly changing, but I think we have a long way to go, too...
 
shimniok said:
I've been keenly interested in this and the other thread on this topic... Because I am curious to know what my daughter will grow up to be like... and I wonder how much of these statements about women (by men) are nature versus nurture, that old debate. I know there's no ready answer but it's interesting to consider.

All these statements seem so *true* but in my gut I want them to be wrong wrong wrong!

Because I don't want my daughter to be artificially limited. Not by what other people tell her she can or can't do. Not by what she's expected to like or not like. Not by even her own lack of confidence. To that end I hope I can give her opportunities to explore a bunch of different things and decide for herself what she is interested in. How sad to be boxed in and miss out on parts of life ... without even knowing it.

I don't like limitations for myself. For example: why are more women into knitting? It's not for lack of ability on men's part. I've heard more than a few comments from female knitters that they know men who are really good at it. I think it's the stigma associated with crossing these arbitrary gender boundaries. Well, those boundaries are b.s. I thought it might be fun so now I'm into it. And... it *is* fun. And relaxing. And now I have two cool home made scarves. :D Lookit what I would've missed out on!

Are women really universally afraid of gadgets and knobs and buttons? They don't like tech? That can't be inherently true! Can it?

It used to be that very few women were into math. People thought girls couldn't do it. And there's studies that suggest some teachers unwittingly encourage boys more than girls in math. Well, girls are good at math and I've known a few. For that matter, women didn't used to be in a lot of fields. Women weren't *allowed* into a lot of fields a hundred years ago. Now they are, but I really believe cultural stereotypes are still at play, interfering, and self-perpetuating.

Girls didn't used to be programmers or computer geeks, but I can list a handful of women who are among the most brilliant IT people I've known or worked with in 15 years. Friend of mine from college went on to write some O'Reilley books and is a lead developer for a Major .com (like, one of the top 5). This person was also into Ham radio thanks to her dad.

I know a woman who has no qualms about crawling under her Wagoneers (yes, plural) to change out a transfer case or whatever else.

But none of these examples quite alleviated my fears ... these all seem like exceptions to the rule... through some happenstance a few women turn out to be techies... but the rule is that women won't/can't do tech stuff. That just can't be.

Then it hit me. My FIRST Robotics Challenge team, high school and some middle school kids, were comprised 50-50 of girls and boys. And the girls were every bit as competent as the boys in building, programming, designing, etc.

What I realized was that if they lacked anything it was opportunity, encouragement, and an environment where they could explore and find their abilities. I noticed boys had a tendency to want to step in and bump the girls out of the way or even tell them they didn't know what they were doing!

It kind of reminded me of the vibe I got from middle school and high school PE. :D I *could've* been better at sports if any of the PE "teachers" would've considered really teaching me--or if I'd been exposed to any of that as a kid. So, instead, I sucked at it... but it wasn't that I lacked ability, just experience and confidence. Naturally I wasn't too interested in something that was so frustrating where no one would help me.

But those things I was exposed to that I did have ability for, I enjoyed and did reasonably well at. Like, volleyball, swimming, tennis. Or computers. And I think that's at the heart of the explanation for why there's few women into technical gizmos, or why there are so few men who knit. But I also think it's getting better.

Almost *every* FIRST Robotics team happens to be about 50-50 girls/boys. That suggests to me that girls are feeling like it is more ok to be into geek stuff. Even if they want to go on to be interior designers (as one student did). More girls are into playing video games and riding skateboards or doing extreme sports, or just doing regular sports.

I just don't believe that women can't do tech, can't be interested in tech, aren't able to handle a lot of dials and switches, couldn't be interested in turning wrenches or taking stuff apart, couldn't be interested in building things.

I think culture is slowly changing, but I think we have a long way to go, too...
Click to expand...

This is a great post. I've noticed a lot of gender stereotyping and blatant sexism in this topic, and I think you make some valid points. I especially like the comment about the PE teachers; I joined the basketball team when I was in middle school because I wanted to learn how to play basketball. Instead the coach just assumed that everyone already knew the rules and how to play, so I was left being even more confused by basketball. I also have guys at work who try to talk to me about football and I feign interest in what they're saying, even though I have no idea what they're talking about. I still don't understand the basic rules of football.

I too know plenty of women who are into mechanics, computers, audio, and other "manly" hobbies. Conversely, I also know men who are into "girly" hobbies, myself included. I love clothing and fashion, an interest typically attributed to women. I also like to sew, a skill I learned from my mother, who is an extremely talented seamstress.

Sexism affects men too, society says that you can't be a man if you don't like beer and hunting, and football. Pepsi had an ad on the radio a few months ago for their product "Pepsi Max" (formerly Diet Pepsi Max) that said something like "the first diet soda for men," implying that if you like diet sodas, you're not a man. I happen to love diet sodas and very rarely drink non-diet soda, my favorite is Tab, which has been historically marketed towards women. That doesn't stop me from liking the taste of it, and just because it comes in a bright pink can doesn't mean I can't enjoy it.

A note on shoes, since many people have mentioned it. You can't just own one pair of shoes, you need to coordinate shoes with different outfits. You can't wear a pair of grubby sneakers with a pair of pleated pants. Also, some colors go together and others don't. For example, you can't wear brown shoes with black pants, or white socks with black shoes.
 
While in her 60s to early 80s, my mother enjoyed listening to classical music on her Pioneer PL-112D with the Sansui G-6000 and Bose 501. Was she in the minority or are women more discreet of what they have or do in general.
 
Good on You!

shimniok said:
Because I don't want my daughter to be artificially limited. Not by what other people tell her she can or can't do. Not by what she's expected to like or not like. Not by even her own lack of confidence. To that end I hope I can give her opportunities to explore a bunch of different things and decide for herself what she is interested in. How sad to be boxed in and miss out on parts of life ... without even knowing it.

I don't like limitations for myself. For example: why are more women into knitting?

I think culture is slowly changing, but I think we have a long way to go, too...
Click to expand...

My wife is an only child who grew up in the 50's. Her dad, who I truly love, is a forward thinking man. He taught his little girl that there was nothing she couldn't do if she wanted to. From an early age she passed him wrenches when he worked on his car and helped him when he remodeled their house. Her mom, although more traditional, was also supportive.

It was her quiet self confidence and lack of "girl silliness" that attracted me and it's been a blessing to spend the last 45 years with this self assured person. There's a young man somewhere for your daughter who, if he's smart enough, will realize what a catch a confident, independent woman is.

As for knitting, you might recall that Rosie Grier knitted to relax. I'm glad that he stepped out and broke down some barriers.

I'm with you. Sometimes our culture doesn't move fast enough. Recently it seems we're moving backwards.
 
music from Mars and music from Venus

Interesting thread,
I propose that we all go back and ask our significant others, what their response to this thread would be.

I have to admit my wife does enjoy listening to her music on a "decent system" decent meaning not a boom box or tv speakers, but what I have in my "mancave" is definately overkill for her.

My sister on the other hand who has been a full and part time musician for her whole life (she is 60), has 2 r2r decks, wharfedale 90's powered by tubes, and has almost as much vinyl as I do.
While working on her computer I have noticed she has visited AK, maybe just to see what I am talking about when I mention the site or she is a lurker?? lol
JEAN ARE YOU HERE ?
 
shimniok said:
I've been keenly interested in this and the other thread on this topic... Because I am curious to know what my daughter will grow up to be like... and I wonder how much of these statements about women (by men) are nature versus nurture, that old debate. I know there's no ready answer but it's interesting to consider.

All these statements seem so *true* but in my gut I want them to be wrong wrong wrong!

Because I don't want my daughter to be artificially limited. Not by what other people tell her she can or can't do. Not by what she's expected to like or not like. Not by even her own lack of confidence. To that end I hope I can give her opportunities to explore a bunch of different things and decide for herself what she is interested in. How sad to be boxed in and miss out on parts of life ... without even knowing it.

I don't like limitations for myself. For example: why are more women into knitting? It's not for lack of ability on men's part. I've heard more than a few comments from female knitters that they know men who are really good at it. I think it's the stigma associated with crossing these arbitrary gender boundaries. Well, those boundaries are b.s. I thought it might be fun so now I'm into it. And... it *is* fun. And relaxing. And now I have two cool home made scarves. :D Lookit what I would've missed out on!

Are women really universally afraid of gadgets and knobs and buttons? They don't like tech? That can't be inherently true! Can it?

It used to be that very few women were into math. People thought girls couldn't do it. And there's studies that suggest some teachers unwittingly encourage boys more than girls in math. Well, girls are good at math and I've known a few. For that matter, women didn't used to be in a lot of fields. Women weren't *allowed* into a lot of fields a hundred years ago. Now they are, but I really believe cultural stereotypes are still at play, interfering, and self-perpetuating.

Girls didn't used to be programmers or computer geeks, but I can list a handful of women who are among the most brilliant IT people I've known or worked with in 15 years. Friend of mine from college went on to write some O'Reilley books and is a lead developer for a Major .com (like, one of the top 5). This person was also into Ham radio thanks to her dad.

I know a woman who has no qualms about crawling under her Wagoneers (yes, plural) to change out a transfer case or whatever else.

But none of these examples quite alleviated my fears ... these all seem like exceptions to the rule... through some happenstance a few women turn out to be techies... but the rule is that women won't/can't do tech stuff. That just can't be.

Then it hit me. My FIRST Robotics Challenge team, high school and some middle school kids, were comprised 50-50 of girls and boys. And the girls were every bit as competent as the boys in building, programming, designing, etc.

What I realized was that if they lacked anything it was opportunity, encouragement, and an environment where they could explore and find their abilities. I noticed boys had a tendency to want to step in and bump the girls out of the way or even tell them they didn't know what they were doing!

It kind of reminded me of the vibe I got from middle school and high school PE. :D I *could've* been better at sports if any of the PE "teachers" would've considered really teaching me--or if I'd been exposed to any of that as a kid. So, instead, I sucked at it... but it wasn't that I lacked ability, just experience and confidence. Naturally I wasn't too interested in something that was so frustrating where no one would help me.

But those things I was exposed to that I did have ability for, I enjoyed and did reasonably well at. Like, volleyball, swimming, tennis. Or computers. And I think that's at the heart of the explanation for why there's few women into technical gizmos, or why there are so few men who knit. But I also think it's getting better.

Almost *every* FIRST Robotics team happens to be about 50-50 girls/boys. That suggests to me that girls are feeling like it is more ok to be into geek stuff. Even if they want to go on to be interior designers (as one student did). More girls are into playing video games and riding skateboards or doing extreme sports, or just doing regular sports.

I just don't believe that women can't do tech, can't be interested in tech, aren't able to handle a lot of dials and switches, couldn't be interested in turning wrenches or taking stuff apart, couldn't be interested in building things.

I think culture is slowly changing, but I think we have a long way to go, too...
Click to expand...

Very well written and thought out! :thmbsp: I have the same feelings about my daughter who will shortly be 7 months.
 
I agree that Shimniok's post is excellent, and I agree with what he said.

I think the boundless possibilities we see for our children are very exciting, and as parents many of us want them to achieve in whatever direction they choose, regardless of societal norms. It is saddening to see the effects of those norms and peer pressure as they slowly and inevitably squash a child's individuality and optimism in the interests of conformance. I think it happens to everyone to a greater or lesser degree. Boys are expected to excel (or at least have an interest) in sports. Girls are expected to be more socially oriented and are unfortunately judged way too much on appearance and style. There are plenty of other stereotypes that kids feel pressures to meet. It can be tough for those who don't feel comfortable being molded into those expectations. Hopefully as parents we can help our kids develop high self-esteem and strong senses of individuality. Perhaps things will change... I think they have quite a bit (sometimes two steps forward, one step back) and I'm pretty amazed by the maturity, intelligence, and self confidence of many kids I meet.
 
Boys play with machines and girls with dolls (i.e, little humans-to-be). Perhaps their biological ability of reproducing themselves physically puts some irrational bias on their minds. After all, Mother Nature does not care about individuals but for the species they belong to. I think we tend to give too much importance to our individualistic aspects, perhaps a heritage from the Renaissance. Humans have nothing to do with the rest of Nature, we are special....

On a more phenomenological ground, my own statistics of women I know is that they get involved with more interest in something related to human or biological subjects. It doesn't mean that there are no women that I know interested, say, in mechanics, but these are, statistically, a small minority.
 
Shimniok has some good thoughts, but I'm not interested in turning women into men. Androgony is no turn-on for me. My wife tolerates this hobby, but would use a (cheap) BB if that's all there was. She's still having problems getting everything turned on to watch a movie. If I had to choose between this and making her less of a woman, I'll take the former any day. Nothing wrong with becoming self-sufficient, having a career, etc. (which my wife has, and was independent before I came along, though she still wanted a man around). Call me sexist or whatever, but I want her to be woman (and even a little girlish if you know what I mean) when she comes home. She will tell you she doesn't want me to start turning into a woman.

To DougMac, Scots wa hae!
 
JonL said:
To women, things are secondary to people.
Click to expand...

I think that is quite at the heart of it. Someone else made a statement about this being a negative thing insinuating that women are different, that that somehow makes us unequal. Well I certainly hope we are different and never never ever equal. By that I mean we are inherently different the Venus/Mars thing. I saw a Twilight Zone or something one time where men and women were virtual equal in every way.. I think I would rather not exist in a world where we are all carbon copies of each other. Viva la difference!! I have always equated this hobby/obsession as modern equivalent to "The Hunt" looking to take down the biggest buffalo. Try as we might we are tied to our DNA/Past
 
My wife enjoys it and plays the gear and buys used media, etc. She just does not want to get on the board and talk about it :)
 
My wife says the same: Why men are not into fashion like women do?

MEN like: Sports, Cars, Boats, Airplanes, Trains, Submarines, Balloons, Tanks, Stereos, Couch, Remote, Travel, Adventure, Audio Karma, Science, Guns, Trills, Movies, Women.

WOMEN like: MALL

Oh no!, my wife saw me sending this post.... I will be grounded for a week! :D
 
A few weeks ago, my wife was reviewing my collecting obsessions: vintage Jeeps, cacti, records, audio gear, tools, etc.... Aside from a modest coin collection, she has no interest in collecting.

Noting that men tend to be collectors, she asked why I thought that was so.

I told her it was because through evolution, men are traditionally hunters and gatherers. I can't think of a better explanation.
 
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