• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Why these low watt vintage amplifiers sound so good...?

I too can attest to the low wattage amps sounding great. I really think most of us really enjoy the sound of Cap-Coupled amps. They may not be the most precise or detailed sounding some of the later amps produce, but they just have that warm, non-fatiguing, easy-listening sound. Its what the ears find enjoyable. IMO. I just sold off my AU9500 and 9090, but kept my AU505 and 210.
 
It was a "given" in the UK audio mags from the 1980s that lower output amps sounded better — less harsh, subtler, sweeter, warmer. It was axiomatic. No one disagreed. But there were always a big number of macho-men who thought power was everything — having big amps in big racks told your friends you were a big man. As always, the lessons of the past were lost, and again people think the more power, the better. It's like the horsepower-race with cars — no one will ever use the extra power, or needs to go from 0 to 60 a half-second faster, but they feel like bigshots.

Using a 75W amp into Martin Logans (not an efficient speaker) I had a neighbor banging furiously on my door and shouting "Turn it DOWN dammit!"

He didn't have an apartment right next to mine. He had a house a quarter-mile away.

It may well be that new technologies can now deliver big power and retain finesse, but I don't know because I'm quite content with less power and haven't tried big-power amps — though I did have the Adcom 300W mono block amps briefly, and they here so harsh the Music cried for help. But I attributed that to Adcom just being lousy, and didn't attribute it to big amps in general.
onwardjames said:
Been saying this for at least 10 years - that Sony 7065 - punches far above its weight. I still miss the 2 I sold for bird feed.
Click to expand...
Bird feed is a good treatment for hypertension. It's used widely in Mexico and Central America, which have much lower rates for stroke and heart attack.
 
bimasta said:
Using a 75W amp into Martin Logans (not an efficient speaker) I had a neighbor banging furiously on my door and shouting "Turn it DOWN dammit!"

He didn't have an apartment right next to mine. He had a house a quarter-mile away.
Click to expand...

Gee, here in the inner city my neighbors sit on my porch steps and listen to my daily "concerts". Several have asked me, "What radio station are you listening to?". More than once I had to tell someone, "I don't do requests, go home and listen to your stereo".:)

Others have mentioned that they can feel the bass my system produces. They live as far away as 10 houses from my rowhouse.
 
JoeESP9 said:
Gee, here in the inner city my neighbors sit on my porch steps and listen to my daily "concerts". Several have asked me, "What radio station are you listening to?". More than once I had to tell someone, "I don't do requests, go home and listen to your stereo".:)

Others have mentioned that they can feel the bass my system produces. They live as far away as 10 houses from my rowhouse.
Click to expand...
Years ago I built a couple 15" down firing sealed subs into cabinets i nade to look like end tables. They sounded fine in the house. But the house was on a raised foundation and most of the low frequencies came out of the foundation vents. My neighbors came over asking me to turn it down. It wasn't loud in the house, I showed him.
But at his house the bass was booming. :biggrin:
That was my first and last attempts at subs until recently.
 
playittwice said:
I too can attest to the low wattage amps sounding great. I really think most of us really enjoy the sound of Cap-Coupled amps. They may not be the most precise or detailed sounding some of the later amps produce, but they just have that warm, non-fatiguing, easy-listening sound. Its what the ears find enjoyable. IMO. I just sold off my AU9500 and 9090, but kept my AU505 and 210.
Click to expand...
They can sound more detailed without loosing that non fatiguing sound. BKtheking posted a BOM for the Marantz 1060 cap coupled 30wpc integrated amp that really made a difference in detail without loosing the overall tone. Bigger filter and coupling caps, Wima's for small value electrolytics, super fast switching low noise diodes, etc. There was also a list of all the resistors to switch to metal film from carbon film. I had two 1060's. Both got the parts upgrades, but only one I replaced all the carbon film resistors for metal films. Both amps sounded much better at higher volumes with better detail. The one with the resistor swap had just a bit more detail and clarity over the other. Overall not really worth the effort swapping the resistors IMO. But with better storage and film caps to replace some lyrics, did make a difference for the better.
 
JoeESP9 said:
Gee, here in the inner city my neighbors sit on my porch steps and listen to my daily "concerts".
Click to expand...
I now live in an apartment in dense neighborhood. I made 2 pairs of speakers, utilizing the Covid lockdown for the time, and I tested every change and tweak by playing music really loud. I use 3 beautifully recorded tracks to "test" them, because I know these tracks by heart and they present a range of styles — one Jazz, one Classical, one EDM.

I was really worried about bothering the neighbors, not just with the high SPLs but the same 3 tracks ad nauseam.

I bumped into one neighbor, and started to apologize. But he spoke first: "Man, you're playing some really great music!"

"Not too loud?" I asked.

"No," he laughed. "Turn it up!"

A week later I ran into a young couple who live below me (under the 2 subwoofers) and asked if I was a nuisance.

The girl laughed. "We just start dancing!"
 
Last edited:
bimasta said:
I now live in an apartment in dense neighborhood. I made 2 pairs of speakers, utilizing the Covid lockdown for the time, and I tested every change and tweak by playing music really loud. I use 3 beautifully recorded tracks to "test" them, because I know these tracks by heart and they present a range of styles — one Jazz, one Classical, one EDM.

I was really worried about bothering the neighbors, not just with the high SPLs but the same 3 tracks ad nauseam.

I bumped into one neighbor, and started to apologize. But he spoke first: "Man, you're playing some really great music!"

"Not too loud?" I asked.

"No," he laughed. "Turn it up!"

A week later I ran into a young couple who live below me (under the 2 subwoofers) and asked if I was a nuisance.

The girl laughed. "We just start dancing!"
Click to expand...

My neighbors are always saying what good music I am playing, even the ones 5 or 6 houses away. Almost 70 years old and still rocking out after all these years. One guy a little older than me from California says he remembers watching them and partying with the various San Francisco bands in every time I put on music from them.
 
bimasta said:
Using a 75W amp into Martin Logans (not an efficient speaker) I had a neighbor banging furiously on my door and shouting "Turn it DOWN dammit!"

He didn't have an apartment right next to mine. He had a house a quarter-mile away.
Click to expand...

That's impressive! I'm using a 70 watt amp and some speakers that are only semi-ineffincent (I think that they're 88 db) with a big JBL 12" sub (which I think is rated at 200 watts) and I don't feel like my system goes to that level. I do have neighbors to either side that are pretty noisy, one with a stereo and the other with small kids and lots of parties... so it isn't as if they'd ever be likely to complain anyway and I never have had occasion to complain about them. At their loudest, it's never such a bother for me that I can't drown out the din with my stereo at a moderate volume. I figure that this is part of what I have it for...
 
Aaron Hayman said:
That's impressive! I'm using a 70 watt amp and some speakers that are only semi-ineffincent (I think that they're 88 db) with a big JBL 12" sub (which I think is rated at 200 watts) and I don't feel like my system goes to that level. I do have neighbors to either side that are pretty noisy, one with a stereo and the other with small kids and lots of parties... so it isn't as if they'd ever be likely to complain anyway and I never have had occasion to complain about them. At their loudest, it's never such a bother for me that I can't drown out the din with my stereo at a moderate volume. I figure that this is part of what I have it for...
Click to expand...
That's the most practical reason I ever heard for having an audio system — to drown out the neighbors.
 
Sansui 2000 and HK330c were responsible for my vintage audio pursuit. Later I got a pair of NAD 3020a amps and got both of them running. Amazing sound with matching speakers. Seriously, how far are we from speakers when we really want to enjoy quality sound? 8-12" mostly. In most occasions, even not best efficiency speakers can satisfy with output level between 5-15w. All those monster receivers and amps are severe overkill for home use IMO
 
The desire for macho-mucho-power receivers or amps has its roots more in psychology (or bad information) than in music, audio or electronics.
 
bimasta said:
The desire for macho-mucho-power receivers or amps has its roots more in psychology (or bad information) than in music, audio or electronics.
Click to expand...
I agree, though it does seem like a lot of speakers these days are fairly inefficient so if you expect to crank them and/or you're using them in a larger room, you might want the headroom that a bigger amp offers.
 
Cozy workroom with KLH Model 17s setup does not need a lot of power. The smaller guys like the Sherwood S-7200, Sansui 2000A, Phillips 785 (silver face), Onkyo TX-2500, even the HK 330C all sound very good.

Okay with the cap coupled guys, an old cap coupled Pioneer SX-1500TD is currently in the living room setup. Enough power for that room and speakers. The smaller guys above can show their limits if I try to crank the volume up in that setup. Currently listening to the S-7200 in the workroom.

Waiting to see if what onwardjames keeps saying about the STR-7065 are true. Still have to straighten out some remaining issues in the fix and repair unit I picked up earlier this year.
 
GyroTuner said:
I've found the same thing. Early 70s solid state gear, made in Japan, typically in the 20 to 50 wpc range, is hard to beat for sound quality.

Sansui AU-777, Marantz 1060/2230, Sony TA-1130, Kenwood KA-6000, are just a few of many examples. Terrific build quality. Also, great price performance ratio when compared to monster receivers and tube amps.
Click to expand...


Sony TA-1130 (recapped and serviced) this is amazing small amp, and Kenwood KA 8100, wow. 70's were good, they used quality materials.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom