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Why we need tone controls and/or equalizers

I live half a block from the firehouse. I can tell you that real sirens don't sound nearly as good as they do on my stereo. :D

(I'll go away again now.)
 
These discussions always seem to be polarizing. And every time I begin to, or consider contributing to the thread, I find my response to be either a reiteration/agreement with another members opinion or my take on a given thought, which in many cases I don't post because it seems to sound condescending to the opposing view.

That said...

With regard to equipment, enjoy what you have. But... If you feel the need to constantly tweak the bass and treble controls then there is probably a setup/room issue, a lackluster speaker, OR... now hear this.... you may just like it that way. Just my take YMMV

In a lot of the threads with pictures of peoples systems, a lot of speakers aren't set up with imaging or freq response in mind. If you're not sitting in the sweet spot and really listening then we're talking about something completely different.

Playing music and listening to music are different things.

With regard to program material... I cant stand most pop/top 40/classic rock.Loved it previously, just grew out of it.

I grew up with Led Zep, Aerosmith, AC/DC, Skynyrd etc. Am I more mature or smarter / better than those that do like it? No absolutely not. I've just moved on from most of it and for the most part is because it really doesn't sound good to me.

Another reason is the structure of almost all of it.

Verse - chorus - verse - chorus - bridge - guitar solo - verse - chorus - end - Rinse,repeat....

I can certainly understand the want or need for eq/tone controls if that is your chosen genre. But on the rare occasion that I break out the old rock CD with the thin bass and turn up the bass knob a few notches to compensate... After a couple of songs I invariably pop it out and play some great sounding instrumental Jazz funk and listen for a few hours.

I do have some great heavy stuff that I think is recorded well and doesn't need EQ.... Tool, White Zombie, Jimmy's Chicken Shack

All in all. I believe recordings, speakers, source, preamp, amps ,and room/setup make a difference. I don't use tone controls. If I put something on that doesn't sound right to me It usually doesn't make the cut to the playlist.

But after being involved in many hobbies over many years with technology at their heart. Amateur astronomy, Home theater, Computers, Front of house sound, and two channel audio. And with all of them being a means of income...And participating in online discussion forums in a lot of them over the last 15 years or so... I have learned to:

1) Never Say Never

2) Never say Always

Tastes change...You can always learn no matter how much you think you know.
 
--@H@B--> said:
Here we are 19 pages later on a thread that should have lasted for only maybe a single page.

I just think audiokarma is better than 19 pages of discussion that in the end is circular and changes no ones mind.

Now i am off to enjoy my festivities. I hope the conversation doesnt vear off to politics around the table because i will skewer someone with a turkey bone.

Enjoy your day!
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I think that if we're 19 pages in it should have lasted 19 pages. Why should it have only lasted 1 page?

My intention is (usually) not to change anyone's mind. I try to give my opinion, relate my experiences, that sort of thing. I think most people do the same.
If we just started threads about things everyone agrees on it would be boring. Nothing wrong with lighting it up onnce in a while.

Have a happy thanksgiving, and don't eat too much...OK, I guess eat too much because that's what TG is all about now ain't it.
 
sebrof said:
I think that if we're 19 pages in it should have lasted 19 pages. Why should it have only lasted 1 page?

My intention is (usually) not to change anyone's mind. I try to give my opinion, relate my experiences, that sort of thing. I think most people do the same.
If we just started threads about things everyone agrees on it would be boring. Nothing wrong with lighting it up onnce in a while.

Have a happy thanksgiving, and don't eat too much...OK, I guess eat too much because that's what TG is all about now ain't it.
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Look, i think you are right to a certain extent but even your response is part of the circular sickness that is the nature of these kinds of threads.

You have the antagonist, protagonists, and the people like yourself that will now start invoking first amendment rights, and how these threads are learning experiences we should be applauding for. The reality is no one is learning anything.

My guess is within the next ten post someone will chime in saying either tone controls are useless or tone controls are necessary. Havent we covered that already? I mean, what more can be said?

The worst part is when this thread fizzles, another will pop up again.

No one needs to agree with me. Im making an observation is all. I left AVS forum because i couldnt stomach the circular banter all the time. Mostly because i always feel compelled to to add my 2 cents.:yes:

I hope everyone had a good thanksgiving. I know i can hardly move.
 
Basically it boils down to this: If you like tone controls use them if not don't. No need in having a large discussion about why you should or shouldn't use tone controls.
 
What i dont understand about threads like this is the peop[le that piss and moan about them!!

Look, if you have no interest in a thread, why are you taking up server space just to tell everyone these threads are pointless, useless, have been covered before?

Maybe some of these threads are started by new people that dont know they been discussed before? And besides, AK had hundreds of other threads so no-one is forcing anyone to read/follow along with threads they have no interest in. If ya aint interested, dont click the link. I've read some posts that say nothing more then "I never post in these types of threads". Well guess what, you just did. Thanks for telling us.

One post said they sometimes add a bit of bass and in the next paragraph said they never use tone controls? HHMMMMM!!!!

I have both tone controls AND an EQ. 31 band per side. Once I had it set, I rarely make any changes. Once in a great while, if the highs are really shrill, I'll just turn the tone control down a click but rarely ever change my EQ settings. I've always believed that an EQs main function should be to compensate for the room your in. Now and then though, as I stated, there may be a need to cut or boost the high/low frequencies a bit. Usually its a slight adjustment. After all, not all music is recorded the same. And in live venues, the sound guy is constantly adjusting EQ settings, been there done that.
 
Edriz said:
What i dont understand about threads like this is the peop[le that piss and moan about them!!

Look, if you have no interest in a thread, why are you taking up server space just to tell everyone these threads are pointless, useless, have been covered before?

Maybe some of these threads are started by new people that dont know they been discussed before? And besides, AK had hundreds of other threads so no-one is forcing anyone to read/follow along with threads they have no interest in. If ya aint interested, dont click the link. I've read some posts that say nothing more then "I never post in these types of threads". Well guess what, you just did. Thanks for telling us.

One post said they sometimes add a bit of bass and in the next paragraph said they never use tone controls? HHMMMMM!!!!

I have both tone controls AND an EQ. 31 band per side. Once I had it set, I rarely make any changes. Once in a great while, if the highs are really shrill, I'll just turn the tone control down a click but rarely ever change my EQ settings. I've always believed that an EQs main function should be to compensate for the room your in. Now and then though, as I stated, there may be a need to cut or boost the high/low frequencies a bit. Usually its a slight adjustment. After all, not all music is recorded the same. And in live venues, the sound guy is constantly adjusting EQ settings, been there done that.
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I acquiesce. :smoke:
 
Zygmo said:
But, to be honest with you, I did not find (other than with speakers, of course) huge differences between components.
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One of the nice things about long threads like this is coming across interesting tidbits like Zygmo's comment above. My experience is that I hear great differences between turntables, arms, power supplies, and amplification at all levels (phono stage, preamp, and power amp), but I hear relatively insignificant differences in terms of cost/performance when it comes to transducers like cartridges and speakers. To my ears, if you control it well with a good turntable and arm, then even a very cheap phono cartridge will play music in an engaging way. Same with the relationship between amps and speakers; in fact, some of the more expensive, complex speaker designs seem to obscure basic musical properties like beat and melody more than a cheap model.
 
jrtrent said:
One of the nice things about long threads like this is coming across interesting tidbits like Zygmo's comment above. My experience is that I hear great differences between turntables, arms, power supplies, and amplification at all levels (phono stage, preamp, and power amp), but I hear relatively insignificant differences in terms of cost/performance when it comes to transducers like cartridges and speakers. To my ears, if you control it well with a good turntable and arm, then even a very cheap phono cartridge will play music in an engaging way. Same with the relationship between amps and speakers; in fact, some of the more expensive, complex speaker designs seem to obscure basic musical properties like beat and melody more than a cheap model.
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:thmbsp: I agree.
 
--@H@B--> said:
Here we are 19 pages later on a thread that should have lasted for only maybe a single page.
There were no attacks by the anti tone control, golden eared, audiophiliacs. If anything, one can clearly see the opposite is more likely true. I keep seeing over and over again the tone control-less having to defend there position, and there response is usually " do want you want".
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--@H@B--> said:
Hmmmmmm. You may have golden ears, but I am not so sure about your eyes! It appears to me to be just the opposite in the responses. Read your own post again, and you may see what I mean. (specifically: attacks)

This thread is really not about whether you should adjust tone or not adjust tone; it is about the ability to be ABLE to easily control tone if you want to. Isn't that the epitome of wanting people to be able to "do what they want"?

And Sir, if you would read a little more carefully, you would notice that these threads branch off somewhat into areas not exactly related to the original subject. If you do, you might find that you learn some things...just as I have. :thmbsp:
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Zygmo said:
--@H@B--> said:
Here we are 19 pages later on a thread that should have lasted for only maybe a single page.
There were no attacks by the anti tone control, golden eared, audiophiliacs. If anything, one can clearly see the opposite is more likely true. I keep seeing over and over again the tone control-less having to defend there position, and there response is usually " do want you want".
Click to expand...
--@H@B--> said:
Hmmmmmm. You may have golden ears, but I am not so sure about your eyes! It appears to me to be just the opposite in the responses. Read your own post again, and you may see what I mean. (specifically: attacks)

This thread is really not about whether you should adjust tone or not adjust tone; it is about the ability to be ABLE to easily control tone if you want to. Isn't that the epitome of wanting people to be able to "do what they want"?

And Sir, if you would read a little more carefully, you would notice that these threads branch off somewhat into areas not exactly related to the original subject. If you do, you might find that you learn some things...just as I have. :thmbsp:
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Thank you for your insightful interpretation of what and who i am!

I have read the whole thread top to bottom. While i do err from time to time i think its pretty easily understood what the tone of this thread is right from the first post. Which oddly enough was started from you! But i guess one might feel attacked if he lands the first blow. :yes:

The only reason why this thread has existed as long as it has is because of the volatility of the subject matter.

Oh i like a good read from time to time, and agree much can be learned if one looks intently. I apologize to all that feel my observations are stepping on there enjoyment of the technologically advanced theories they have gleaned from this thread thus far. Should i use the tone controls or not...DRAT let me consult that thread again!

Look.. i am not telling anyone what to do. I make observations, i give my opinion like others have about why we dont use tone controls, and then we are told we are rich, golden eared snobs. My first real setup consisted of a onkyo receiver, a cheap sony cd player, and genesis 210's. I found through experimentation that just moving the speakers around a little bit would help more than using the tone controls. Not fancy, not nuggets in my ears.

Unless i am provoked to answer drivel, i have pretty much made my point and i think its not much appreciated. So I think its time for me to return from whence i came. Good day gentlemen.
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me: "I don't need tone controls"

TC guy* "yes you do"

me: "I appreciate your thoughtful concern, but no, really i don't."

TC guy: "but what about (yadda yadda yadda).

me: "I'm all set, thanks".

TC guy: "hmmm, but did you think of (this reason you need controls)?"

me; "Yes. And I'm all set, really."

TC guy: "but why don't you have tone controls".

me; "i don't need them".

TC guy: "well I do, so you must also".

me: "no really, I don't"

TC guy "you must be an old deaf person."


.

*In case someone here actually calls themselves "TC Guy". I need to say that i just wrote that to refer to the pro-Tone Conrol group and is not directed at any single individual.
 
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Long threads also spotlight the "last word" OCD types in the forum.
For me tone controls are like audio snow tires. Use them when you need them because in extreme conditions they are nice to have!
 
I always tried to use the tone controls on my amp to make up for room deficiencies. I've had a hard time reaching the right level of bass in my room because of how badly isolated my walls are and the geometry of my room. But in all honesty, with the right equipment and room the neutral tone settings will sound just fine.
 
libertycaps said:
Long threads also spotlight the "last word" OCD types in the forum.
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Who needs the last word? I don't need the last word. i can stop posting anytime I want. I don't need to continue "contributing" well after I said i would bow out. I do it because i want to. I don't have a posting problem. i can stop any time i want. Seriously. i do it 'cause I want to, not because I need to. I don't have a problem. I think you're the one with the problem. I can stop anytime........and did I mention..........






:D
 
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