grillebilly
Empty Head
:yes:
Why we need tone controls and/or equalizers
- Thread starter Zygmo
- Start date
I question the part about your gear - not that something is missing, but specifically, your speakers are most likely not perfectly flat (I'm not even counting room and placement, which also have their effects). A few sets of speakers and a speaker switch might make an interesting "tone control." I know I always heard significant differences between speakers in the audio showroom!
Woops, I'm now reading post #40 of that thread linked to by the third post here, it says almost what I just said above ... and I also just noticed that thread is locked ...
Hey, you in the second post, got any popcorn left?
Old_Tech
Yer-isn't!
Perhaps the speakers are not flat and maybe something else is in need of something or maybe other speakers will sound different who knows. But it sounds so good flat it's the way I listen. I always wanted a system like that. If the source sounds crummy I don't listen to it. I listen to good recordings with accurate gear. Perfect is not an option.
Old Busted H
the H is for Hotness
That tinnitus is a bitch, ain't it? For those that haven't experienced its joys, set up a 5k test tone at -30 dB, and leave it on for the rest of your life.
Vintage_Hi-F
Vintage Audio Geek
How about we all just use what we want (tone controls, EQ's, High and Low pass filters the works). As JohnVF put it "Nobody has ever put a gun to anybody's head and said 'don't use tone controls'."
JonL
Lunatic Member
My tinnitus has a few different tones. I never tried to identify what their frequencies are. It sucks. It's a few notches below the level of unbearable, I'd say it's "slightly annoying." I absolutely do not want it to get worse, so I am 100% religious about using hearing protection when I play, when I am at loud concerts, and when I do any kind of shop work that involves loud noises or impact noises like hammering.
Nonetheless, my preamp has no tone controls and I don't miss them for a moment.
Nonetheless, my preamp has no tone controls and I don't miss them for a moment.
MWalt
Super Member
I am the OP of that thread and am still tone control free. I have continued to upgrade my system and have a pretty nice tube amp and preamp to listen to. That said, I may at some point down the road get the EQ out and do another listening session to see if I like it better.
I have tinnitus in both ears and slight hearing loss at 5k htz. 24 years of active duty in Artillery will do that. I also have my system in what a friend calls a "soft listening environment". Heavy carpet , leather, etc. I always feel the need to add a little air.
By the way, we ought to play real nice due to the last thread getting shut down. People were getting pretty snippy.
ambient
Super Member
:tresbon:
And even as a fan of no tone controls, there's nothing I can say except your life seems to be going pretty ok tonight. Happy listening. I like my some Paul Revere and the Raiders, too (but i'm more of a biscuit than wing man, myself...kind of a metaphor for all of these threads).
Blhagstrom...you said it much better than I could! Thank you. What some people here don't understand is...if you restrict yourself to no controls, you have.....no controls! If you buy with controls, you have the choice of controls or......no controls! LOL
I understand for top of the line, high dollar equipment...you want the least components and wiring as is possible, because you believe that sounds best.
I went trough 3 stages of Audiophile-ism. Early, I wanted lots of equipment, with lots of bells and whistles...RtRs with outboard noise reduction, manual turntables with separate tonearms, tri-amping my speakers, equalizers, mixers...you name it. I had one horsepower RMS amperage, one time! Built a music room with concrete subwoofer boxes under my Corner Horns. I was Mr. Music! LOL
Then, I discovered CDs. No hiss, no ticks and pops....had one heckova mixing studio on my computer....could mix and cross fade, duplicate...denoise and reequalize my records...all with NO tape or surface noise!!! Heaven.
Now...I am semi-retired, poor, and on my third stage of Audiophile-ism. Broke out the RtRs, amps, and turntables I had stored, loosened the Corner Horns back up, and back to playing with equipment.
But...through all that...there were (and are) always instances when I need or just wanted to add a little something to the mix. And I know that when it gets right down to it, most audiophiles mainly like playing with the equipment. Hands on.
Otherwise, put 5 CDs in the carousel, sit back and listen. Don't need ANY bells and whistles if that is what you want to do. (But, of course you would have to admit that CDs really can sound better than tapes and records. I know they can, but I want to play with the equipment again: tape hiss, surface noise and all!)
I understand for top of the line, high dollar equipment...you want the least components and wiring as is possible, because you believe that sounds best.
I went trough 3 stages of Audiophile-ism. Early, I wanted lots of equipment, with lots of bells and whistles...RtRs with outboard noise reduction, manual turntables with separate tonearms, tri-amping my speakers, equalizers, mixers...you name it. I had one horsepower RMS amperage, one time! Built a music room with concrete subwoofer boxes under my Corner Horns. I was Mr. Music! LOL
Then, I discovered CDs. No hiss, no ticks and pops....had one heckova mixing studio on my computer....could mix and cross fade, duplicate...denoise and reequalize my records...all with NO tape or surface noise!!! Heaven.
Now...I am semi-retired, poor, and on my third stage of Audiophile-ism. Broke out the RtRs, amps, and turntables I had stored, loosened the Corner Horns back up, and back to playing with equipment.
But...through all that...there were (and are) always instances when I need or just wanted to add a little something to the mix. And I know that when it gets right down to it, most audiophiles mainly like playing with the equipment. Hands on.
Otherwise, put 5 CDs in the carousel, sit back and listen. Don't need ANY bells and whistles if that is what you want to do. (But, of course you would have to admit that CDs really can sound better than tapes and records. I know they can, but I want to play with the equipment again: tape hiss, surface noise and all!)
cwall99
Addicted Member
Well, there is that difference between a piece of static art and something that has tone controls that allow you to tweak but not irreversibly damage what the artist intended.
I had a 10-band graphic EQ way back in the day, and I realized that all I used it for was to make two big smiley faces that made the music sound like dog-meat.
Took out the EQ, sold it and my first turntable, and bought a better turntable and cartridge. The result? The quality of sound jumped ten-fold, especially on the upper and lower ends of the spectrum.
Better basic components generally, in my experience, mean you don't need to mess with things like tone controls.
Don't get me wrong. I'm, at best, a mid-fi kinda guy. I don't have any sort of special gear, but my system will do full range audio from about 16 or 17 Hz on up to 22Khz. Nothing too flashy, but having a sub-woofer that will go that deep (and it was a challenge to get it dialed in just right), has brought out a lot of detail and life in that extreme low end that an EQ would have just messed up.
So get good, basic gear, and you can do away with a lot of that stuff. At least that's been my experience. Now that my system's all set up right, I don't feel any need to be tweaking bass or treble or sliding EQ sliders around.
It seems to me that to feel the need to be custom tweaking your settings from album to album is one of the best ways to suck the joy out of the hobby.
But, as the French say, Vive la difference. I just like hearing it the way the artists intended. I don't re-write Shakespeare, and I don't re-engineer Alan Parsons.
cwall99
Addicted Member
My experience exactly. And, like I said in my post, you don't need uber-high end gear to get this.
grillebilly
Empty Head
you must be "Hungry" for those good things, baby, hungry through and through
blackfly
Fidelius Claritus
My experience, with the high end anyway, is that any deviation from "straight wire with gain" makes you either weird, deviant or definitely non-pure. I frankly am sick of hearing about how the high end sets "straight wire with gain" as "pure" when we all know this is BS. Equalization occurs in anything: look at Robert Harley's speaker cables. The MIT Oracle MX2 (I think) that has "articulation gain" on the cable. So what is this? An EQ. That's it. And what do you think LP is? Linearity at its best? The LP is the most UNLINEAR medium, and yet people think it is the best. Most likely it is from the imposed EQ it puts on the sound.
I have a preamp that has a 10 band EQ and loudness, and I use both, and depending use only loudness. Having attended enough concerts in my life, the loudness makes the sound more REAL, and is that not what we are striving for?
sebrof
Super Member
I think it depends on what you're after, and your gear.
I want pure music, I don't like it fudged with. For this I have a single ended tube amp with single driver speakers (no crossovers). There are 7 components between my CDP and my ears (selector, volume, driver tube, coupling capacitor, output tube, output transformer, speaker). I think it makes for better music for what I like to listen to, certainly not for everyone. No way I'd put an EQ in the path in that system.
I also have an old Yamaha Receiver (R-2000) and Klipschorns. I use the front end of the Yamaha to tailor the sound in that system. It just sounds better with a little tweaking.
I want pure music, I don't like it fudged with. For this I have a single ended tube amp with single driver speakers (no crossovers). There are 7 components between my CDP and my ears (selector, volume, driver tube, coupling capacitor, output tube, output transformer, speaker). I think it makes for better music for what I like to listen to, certainly not for everyone. No way I'd put an EQ in the path in that system.
I also have an old Yamaha Receiver (R-2000) and Klipschorns. I use the front end of the Yamaha to tailor the sound in that system. It just sounds better with a little tweaking.
luxmaster
Super Member
I have to admit that I do use tone controls. For me using tone controls makes the music more alive and I like to push the limits of music. I have different pairs of speakers depending on the type of music I am listening to. I believe that the reason why every song is recorded flat is because everyone has a different setup with different stereo components and speakers which sound different. You can then tone the music to how it best suits your ear. When you go to a concert or a show the music is toned based on the acoustics of the building your in. If everything was meant to be flat then there wouldnt be any mixing tone boards at concerts or shows. I do listen to different types of music which to me require adjustments that I can make to make me feel that I am actually there inside the music. I guess a perfect example of flat music is a band playing on stage and all their instruments are not plugged into anything. No speakers or equalizers but just the sound of their instruments playing away. It would be pretty lifeless on stage I would think
Last edited: